$170,000
$2.2m
3
ages 44/49

Anonymous wrote:And I think of UMC as a class distinction, like the circles you hang with, rather than wealth or income. We’re “net worth millionaires” but I’m not in the Junior League or Rotary. We don’t donate to the arts. Our kids go to public schools, etc. that feels more middle class to me.

DP. Agree. And I feel like socially I wouldn’t be comfortable around upper class people.

In DC, a family of 4 earning up to 138k (110% of the median) can qualify for some form of housing assistance.

https://dhcd.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dhcd/publication/attachments/HPAP%20Home%20Buyer%20Assistance%20Table%20as%20of%20July%203%2C2020.b.pdf

In my mind, that puts a family of 4 earning below $80,000 in the working class category to me, especially if that is from 2 jobs where parents are working shifts because they can’t afford to outsource childcare.

$80,000 to ~$150,000 is a fairly middle class existence. Once you start to hit $175k+ you are entering UMC. I think UMC really starts to cap off somewhere between 300-400k (depends on personal factors like whether that income is stable year after year, student loans, etc.). Beyond that you’re pretty darn wealthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
HHI: 450K
Family size: 4
NW: 1.5M

We are extremely comfortable.

Sidenote: I'm curious if people generally calculate NW the same way.

I said $3.5M last night. I counted home equity (we don't have a mortgage), retirement account balances, and brokerage account balance.

You didn’t include checking or savings accounts aside from retirement?

Sorry, my bad. $3,532,000.

Better?

Anonymous wrote:And I think of UMC as a class distinction, like the circles you hang with, rather than wealth or income. We’re “net worth millionaires” but I’m not in the Junior League or Rotary. We don’t donate to the arts. Our kids go to public schools, etc. that feels more middle class to me.

Don't kid yourself. Some of the public schools in the DMV (e.g., Bethesda, Great Falls, McLean, etc.) are more or less like private schools elsewhere . When the average home price is $1 million, then going to your local public is not the same as it might be in other areas of the country. You're just comparing it to the even more exclusive and expensive privates.

HHI: $340k
Net worth: $2.2M (including home equity, excluding pensions)
Family size: 4
Ages: 45/42

Like others have said, I think of being UMC as a social group (educated professionals) rather than having strict number thresholds/cut-offs. I personally would not consider myself rich unless I were financially independent (did not need to work to maintain a comfortable-to me-lifestyle), but I'm fully aware that our income/net worth puts us toward the top of these scales.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

Your post says you are completely unaware. You are earning what? $300-500K and think its comparable to $200K. Many professional jobs work that many hours. You are completely unaware of how others live. We make $140-160K depending on the year and live in a fixer upper we bought for $360K that is 900 square feet. We are more in line with UMC in this area and I don't consider us UMC. You are no where culturally UMC. You probably own two nice cars, child care, a nice bigger house, housekeeper and multiple vacations a year. You aren't living anywhere close to where we are.

And I think of UMC as a class distinction, like the circles you hang with, rather than wealth or income. We’re “net worth millionaires” but I’m not in the Junior League or Rotary. We don’t donate to the arts. Our kids go to public schools, etc. that feels more middle class to me.

HHI- 250k
Nw- 1M
Family of 4
Early 40s

We live quite a bit below our means in order to prioritize savings for retirement and college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

This. There are aspects of "upper middle class" that are as much about class lifestyle markers as it is about income. My cousin comes from the building trades and how has a very successful company in that trade, owns multiple houses. He's definitely wealthy but culturally is still "working class" in how he lives (the multiple houses are beach house and mountain cabin in more working-class areas).

UMC largely refers to the comfortable professional class (doctors, lawyers, high end finance types (e.g., investment banks, private equity, consultancies, etc.), high end tech, upper level management (but not CEO level), etc.) with high incomes and comparable lifestyles. They have typically attended prestigious colleges and universities and have comparable graduate degrees. This would fit a wide swath of the DC area because living in a SFH in many of these zip codes already is a luxury good relative to the rest of the country. The same is true for Manhattan, Brooklyn, the Bay Area, and other top tier cities. I think the key distinction between the UMC and the UC is capital or lack thereof. The UMC is still reliant incomes to fund its lifestyle while the UC can get by exclusively on capital (earned or inherited).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

This. There are aspects of "upper middle class" that are as much about class lifestyle markers as it is about income. My cousin comes from the building trades and how has a very successful company in that trade, owns multiple houses. He's definitely wealthy but culturally is still "working class" in how he lives (the multiple houses are beach house and mountain cabin in more working-class areas).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of those are UMC.

Without age the numbers are meaningless

Age has nothing to do with middle class.

Disagree. A 25 year old with a net worth of 1 million dollars and a 100,000 HHI is categorically much better economically situated (and would be more commonly viewed as upper middle class) than a 75 year old with a net worth of 1 million dollars and a 100,000 HHI.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

Yeah I find the difference between upper middle class and upper class to be mostly about the dependence on a high-paying job. There is a big difference between somebody who needs their big law job and somebody who can live on the interest of their investments. Maybe there should be something between middle class and upper middle class to describe us.

Perhaps we are UUMC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

Yeah I find the difference between upper middle class and upper class to be mostly about the dependence on a high-paying job. There is a big difference between somebody who needs their big law job and somebody who can live on the interest of their investments. Maybe there should be something between middle class and upper middle class to describe us.

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.