"Not in the way you think?" What does that even mean, OP?

Anonymous wrote:"'model minorities' with positive stereotypes associated with them by the dominant white Christian culture."

Really? Did you have any elderly relatives with numbers tattooed on their arms? Imagine telling them the "dominant white Christian culture" had a positive view of them.

Interesting how the Jewish experience is often diminished and cannot be recognized specifically because it's somehow not worthy enough for the "Olympics of oppression."

Same with indigenous populations.

PP from Indiana here - the one who'd never (knowingly) met a Jewish person until college. (Never knowingly met a gay person until then either now that I think of it although at least 2 of my classmates have come out as gay since then, but I digress.

Jewish people were very much seen as 'model minorities' where I grew up. Although horrible things were done to Jewish people in Europe, Jewish people were seen as overcoming adversity, clever, educated, successful and cultured. People in my community were/are big supporters of Israel - Israel is tough, scrappy and admirable. Jews were/are the antithesis of Arabs and Blacks. No one would think twice about Jews moving into the community (what a great opportunity to help them accept Jesus as their savior) but Blacks.....well, the 'dominant white Christian culture' of my community didn't see Blacks as 'model minorities'.

Anonymous wrote:Jews are 2% of the population and comprise 20-25% of the student population at every top college.....I’m not sure there is a meaningful inclusion or diversity issue here.

What percentage would it be without (a) soft caps at many schools and (b) affirmative action that largely benefits other groups?

Anonymous wrote:Jews are 2% of the population and comprise 20-25% of the student population at every top college.....I’m not sure there is a meaningful inclusion or diversity issue here.

DP. But you’re obtuse and missing the broader point.

Anonymous wrote:I’m Jewish and totally agree. We don’t factor in.

I want to help you factor in — but don’t know how, and won’t assume that is a broad desire.

I’m enjoying learning from this échange.

So you really think that most people who live in areas without large Jewish populations can immediately tell the difference between a yarmulke and the types of head coverings worn by some Muslim men? Or glance at a group of people and know that they are Orthodox or Ultra Orthodox Jews and not, say, Amish?

I grew up on a farm in Indiana. In my community, Catholics were the minorities. I didn't (knowingly) meet a Jewish person until I was in college - which is when I had my first bagel. Yes, most people in my homogenous are could distinguish between a Jewish man's yarmulke and the head coverings worn by some Muslim men. Of course, there are some people who are willfully ignorant - but that's true about many, many things. The example a PP wrote about regarding an idiot who was worried about an observant Jewish man praying? That's just willful ignorance.

OTOH, most people (including myself in this moment) could not distinguish between an Orthodox Jew and Ultra Orthodox. If the Jewish man were wearing a suit standing next to a Polish guy wearing a suit, it would be unlikely we would be able to determine who was Catholic and who was Jewish. We would assume both were Catholic. We would, with 100% certainty, be able to identify an Amish person and distinguish an Amish person from a Dunkard. After some interaction, we'd be able to distinguish an Amish person from a Mennonite.

Jews are 2% of the population and comprise 20-25% of the student population at every top college.....I’m not sure there is a meaningful inclusion or diversity issue here.

Anonymous wrote:
So you really think that most people who live in areas without large Jewish populations can immediately tell the difference between a yarmulke and the types of head coverings worn by some Muslim men? Or glance at a group of people and know that they are Orthodox or Ultra Orthodox Jews and not, say, Amish?

Smaller Orthodox communities are still visibly distinct in the places they are located. My city has about 300 Orthodox families, which is not a large community. But nearly all of those families live in one area, within walking distance of each other. I can think of several majority-Orthodox streets. On Shabbat and holidays, this area is teeming with kippahs, suits, and black hats, as well as girls in their dressiest dresses and giant hair accessories, with everyone strolling around in a totally residential area where the only other pedestrians are either runners or dog walkers in athleisure. Trust me, people know we are Jewish.

That being said, I can honestly say that our experiences with non-Jewish neighbors have been nothing but wonderful. Sure, I worry about some basement wacko going on a shooting spree. But I don't feel that we are resented or disliked by our non-Jewish neighbors broadly. They are friendly and polite. Sometimes curious or confused, but never disrespectful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not Jewish but the sentiment I always got is that Jewish people 'blend' into the greater white demographic. Unless its a synagogue attacked you don't hear about people being discriminated against in hiring practices or home buying or on the streets because they're Jewish. No one knows you're Jewish.

We blend in because we’ve gotten good at hiding our Jewish identity. That’s out of necessity.

OMG! It’s comments like this that makes you sound ridiculous. You know who can’t hide their identity? Black and Asian people.

Obviously, antisemitism is a problem in this country. The synagogue attacks prove that, but there have also been increasing number of lower level hate crimes against individuals and houses of worship. I think you’re right that Jews do get sidelined in the discussion about racism precisely because they can easily blend in to predominantly white spaces AND white power structures. Where you sound completely tone deaf is not understanding the massive advantage that gives you. As a light skinned black woman who can often blend into white spaces, I can tell you that is a VERY privileged position compared to darker skinned black women. And yes, it does mean hiding aspects of my identity which has its own issues — but let’s not forget that it comes with enormous advantages. In the context of Asians speaking out about being murdered because of how they look, it’s incredibly tone deaf to talk about the burdens of easy assimilation.

Hey, PP. I hear you. I totally hear you. But what about observant Jews who, by definition, dress in a manner that easily identifies them as Jews to any passerby? Are you saying they should choose to discard their religious garments to "blend in?" Is that a solution? I discourage my husband from wearing a kippah (head covering) because I worry he will be targeted. Check out what happens in religious Jewish neighborhoods in NYC and the violence against observant Jews. So please, don't be tone deaf about observant Jews. And by the way - many of us who are conservative or reform Jews "easily" (according to you) assimilate by discarding our traditions and choosing very "white" names for our kids. I recognize that as a white woman I do not face the same issues as you do, as a Black woman, but I also have experienced anti-semitism first hand.

m

Exactly. It shows that many PPs are completely ignorant as to the Jewish faith. Yarmukle, sudra, shtreimel, tallit, sheitels ... most people are completely ignorant that these items of religious dress even exist. Tell me that a Hasidic wearing these items would "blend into white spaces" without a second glance.

No, but you may be overestimating the number of people who will see these items of religious dress and realize that they indicate that someone is Jewish.

DP. I think the vast majority of people would know that someone wearing a yarmulke, never mind full on Hasidic garb, was Jewish.

So you really think that most people who live in areas without large Jewish populations can immediately tell the difference between a yarmulke and the types of head coverings worn by some Muslim men? Or glance at a group of people and know that they are Orthodox or Ultra Orthodox Jews and not, say, Amish?

I'll add, too, that most of the Jewish people that I knew -- or knew of -- prior to going to college did not wear yarmulke or dress in ways that were visibly Jewish, except for an occasional Star of David necklace.

Yes, I do think most people would know the difference.

And of course most Jews don't wear anything or dress in a way that would readily identify them. That's an entirely separate question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not Jewish but the sentiment I always got is that Jewish people 'blend' into the greater white demographic. Unless its a synagogue attacked you don't hear about people being discriminated against in hiring practices or home buying or on the streets because they're Jewish. No one knows you're Jewish.

We blend in because we’ve gotten good at hiding our Jewish identity. That’s out of necessity.

OMG! It’s comments like this that makes you sound ridiculous. You know who can’t hide their identity? Black and Asian people.

Obviously, antisemitism is a problem in this country. The synagogue attacks prove that, but there have also been increasing number of lower level hate crimes against individuals and houses of worship. I think you’re right that Jews do get sidelined in the discussion about racism precisely because they can easily blend in to predominantly white spaces AND white power structures. Where you sound completely tone deaf is not understanding the massive advantage that gives you. As a light skinned black woman who can often blend into white spaces, I can tell you that is a VERY privileged position compared to darker skinned black women. And yes, it does mean hiding aspects of my identity which has its own issues — but let’s not forget that it comes with enormous advantages. In the context of Asians speaking out about being murdered because of how they look, it’s incredibly tone deaf to talk about the burdens of easy assimilation.

Hey, PP. I hear you. I totally hear you. But what about observant Jews who, by definition, dress in a manner that easily identifies them as Jews to any passerby? Are you saying they should choose to discard their religious garments to "blend in?" Is that a solution? I discourage my husband from wearing a kippah (head covering) because I worry he will be targeted. Check out what happens in religious Jewish neighborhoods in NYC and the violence against observant Jews. So please, don't be tone deaf about observant Jews. And by the way - many of us who are conservative or reform Jews "easily" (according to you) assimilate by discarding our traditions and choosing very "white" names for our kids. I recognize that as a white woman I do not face the same issues as you do, as a Black woman, but I also have experienced anti-semitism first hand.

Exactly. It shows that many PPs are completely ignorant as to the Jewish faith. Yarmukle, sudra, shtreimel, tallit, sheitels ... most people are completely ignorant that these items of religious dress even exist. Tell me that a Hasidic wearing these items would "blend into white spaces" without a second glance.

No, but you may be overestimating the number of people who will see these items of religious dress and realize that they indicate that someone is Jewish.

Perhaps, but the people who are the most anti-semitic are usually the ones who know more about Judaism than others. But really, why are we arguing about this? If a black person, or any person of color, tells me they do not feel comfortable in certain spaces and tell me they face racism and discrimination - I listen, I try to do better in my own life, and I believe. So why is it when it comes to a Jew telling you that they do not feel welcome or comfortable in certain spaces, and feel threatened going through life, why is it so hard for you to believe? Do you not see security at our synagogues? Maybe ponder that. This is not a race to the bottom of who has it worse.

Exactly. It seems that the whole notion of “believe people when they talk about their discrimination” doesn’t apply to Jews.

Hey, PP. I hear you. I totally hear you. But what about observant Jews who, by definition, dress in a manner that easily identifies them as Jews to any passerby? Are you saying they should choose to discard their religious garments to "blend in?" Is that a solution? I discourage my husband from wearing a kippah (head covering) because I worry he will be targeted. Check out what happens in religious Jewish neighborhoods in NYC and the violence against observant Jews. So please, don't be tone deaf about observant Jews. And by the way - many of us who are conservative or reform Jews "easily" (according to you) assimilate by discarding our traditions and choosing very "white" names for our kids. I recognize that as a white woman I do not face the same issues as you do, as a Black woman, but I also have experienced anti-semitism first hand.