Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any group that decides who can join and who can't is hazing-it has many meanings.

So every employer hazes when it interviews a prospective employee? This anti fraternity theme is getting ridiculous. Sure, some are bad and some are good - just like everything else in the world. People who sit in their bubbles, cast stereotypes and rage at things they dislike are the true source of ugly on these boards. Maybe some self-reflection is in order.

any overweight people? anyone who doesn't dress like all the others? Any in wheelchairs? Any special needs students? any blacks in them? oh they have their own of course

sororities and fraternities want people just like them -we all know it

You seem to think "Revenge of the Nerds" is reality. I can only speak for my sorority at my large, southern, state university, but we had people of all shapes and sizes, people from different races (although, yes, most of us were white), and nobody gave a $&#@ what we wore. I find your comment about "special needs students" offensive, as I'm guessing you have an image in your head of someone who "looks" a certain way. In answer to your question, yes, we had people who would have been served through special education in school. No, we didn't have anyone in a wheelchair, but I don't recall anyone going through rush at that time who was in a wheelchair. My sorority was viewed as "good," if you define that by the number of rushees who did/did not choose us, so if we truly only cared about someone's appearance, I guess we would have been in a position to do so. Thankfully, my friends weren't that superficial.

It's absolutely fine if sorority/fraternity life isn't for everyone. There are lots of clubs/groups that don't interest me. However, the difference is that I don't make sweeping generalizations about everyone who is part of whatever the group may be. There may be schools where rush is more looks focused and hazing is rampant, and that should absolutely be addressed. Just quit with the sweeping judgments of everyone who is/was in a sorority or fraternity - it's very judgmental, a quality you seem to dislike in others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any group that decides who can join and who can't is hazing-it has many meanings.

So every employer hazes when it interviews a prospective employee? This anti fraternity theme is getting ridiculous. Sure, some are bad and some are good - just like everything else in the world. People who sit in their bubbles, cast stereotypes and rage at things they dislike are the true source of ugly on these boards. Maybe some self-reflection is in order.

any overweight people? anyone who doesn't dress like all the others? Any in wheelchairs? Any special needs students? any blacks in them? oh they have their own of course

sororities and fraternities want people just like them -we all know it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

Ugh, you again? There are no other organizations that require you to audition for, and then pay for, friends. That’s so basic it’s astounding it has to be explained to you over and over.

Because you sound stupid. If you don't think there are groups across college and in adult life that exclude on different bases and require you to "pay for your friends", you are in fact stupid. Greek houses are no different from that in that respect. It's just not. There have been multiple examples of htat given here and on other threads. You just have a stick up your ass about the Greek system. That's fine. But doesn't make you right. At all.

DP. And that’s the sort of society you like, is it? Why is that?

DP. like it or not, the college itself (the place you presumably want DC to make friends) discriminates based on the ability to pay. The same is true for private school and public if you go to a neighborhood with expensive homes. The same is true for youth sports, youth camps and even a ton of youth service organizations. the Greek system is just another group where your kid makes friends based on the ability to pay in a long line that your kid has been exposed to since they started school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

Ugh, you again? There are no other organizations that require you to audition for, and then pay for, friends. That’s so basic it’s astounding it has to be explained to you over and over.

Because you sound stupid. If you don't think there are groups across college and in adult life that exclude on different bases and require you to "pay for your friends", you are in fact stupid. Greek houses are no different from that in that respect. It's just not. There have been multiple examples of htat given here and on other threads. You just have a stick up your ass about the Greek system. That's fine. But doesn't make you right. At all.

DP. And that’s the sort of society you like, is it? Why is that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

Ugh, you again? There are no other organizations that require you to audition for, and then pay for, friends. That’s so basic it’s astounding it has to be explained to you over and over.

Because you sound stupid. If you don't think there are groups across college and in adult life that exclude on different bases and require you to "pay for your friends", you are in fact stupid. Greek houses are no different from that in that respect. It's just not. There have been multiple examples of htat given here and on other threads. You just have a stick up your ass about the Greek system. That's fine. But doesn't make you right. At all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

That is exactly the problem. The reason that hazing exists is that people want to be with the in crowd and will do stupid things to get there. They don’t want to be excluded from the “top” frat or sorority. It sets up the upperclassmen and women as judges of the worthiness of other students rather than classmates of equal value. Maybe you think that’s ok.

That's life. And furthermore, my sorority didn't haze. I wasn't doing anything "to be with the in crowd" as I wasn't asked to do so. I was on a campus of nearly 20K students. There is something for everyone and, newsflash, most of the clubs excluded on some basis (be it interviews, grades, etc.)

I went to a big party school in the "circle the fat" days.

My daughter is in a sorority at W&M and said the “hazing” was the mildest ever and did not include alcohol.

Hazing is a relative term. Yes, I’m sure there are small pockets of hazing where it creates major physical or psychological harm.

I had a friend at UMASS in a local sorority who had to dress up in a brown sweatsuit and say “I’m a little sh-t” and had some not nice things happen.

Others had to sort sprinkles by color all night to bond with their pledge class.

On the other hand, my hazing in the early 2000s was pretty benign. Most new member activities were like apple picking, or painting a wall or doing skits or walking along frat row singing. We had one night that was pretty fun but could be considered “hazing” - kind of like a bachelorette party. NBD...

Now it’s even less... you should be more conscious of how your child interacts with drugs and alcohol. Binge drinking happens all over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

Ugh, you again? There are no other organizations that require you to audition for, and then pay for, friends. That’s so basic it’s astounding it has to be explained to you over and over.

Yes there are. Let's start with country clubs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they actually had to do it, that'd be hazing. Since it was a prank seems like no big deal to me.

No big deal. Students die of hazing, how is that "no big deal"

Hazing is wrong period. There is zero reasons to torture people with this garbage to "make firends"

Are you not understanding? It was a PRANK. They didn't actually have to do it.

Was it really a prank or plausible deniability? That is, you put out the word, people freak out, BUT some pledges do it. After waiting a while, you say it’s a prank. For those who took the command seriously, they now look like fools and have compromised their integrity. I’m with others on this: who would sacrifice their dignity and standards to make “friends.” Sounds desperate.

I guess it's a "prank" in that nobody would have actually been asked to follow through. But it's hazing in that it's designed to humiliate in a lose-lose game. They were made to believe they had to make a choice between the two options both of which would label them as slutty/trashy or whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

Ugh, you again? There are no other organizations that require you to audition for, and then pay for, friends. That’s so basic it’s astounding it has to be explained to you over and over.

Spoken like a true geed. Still bitter the frat bros got all the chicks you wanted to date in college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any group that decides who can join and who can't is hazing-it has many meanings.

So is it hazing when children submit applications to be in the various high school honor societies and are not chosen? I'm not sure how it works in all high schools, but at my child's school, students complete an application, and it clearly states it isn't just grades that determine who is asked to be a member.

What about college acceptances? Are those who aren't accepted being hazed?

As someone else mentioned, what about applying for jobs?

School plays?

We could go on and on. I don't agree with hazing and absolutely think it shouldn't be allowed, but your statement is way off base.

Someone does not know what hazing is - and is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

Oh please, if exclusion is your bar then you better toughen up. There are lots of schools, clubs, etc. that exclude "from the get go." There are lots of things to criticize re: Greek system. That is not one of them.

Ugh, you again? There are no other organizations that require you to audition for, and then pay for, friends. That’s so basic it’s astounding it has to be explained to you over and over.

Anonymous wrote:My brother went to UVa back in the day and just skipped the Greek life. I went to a school with no Greek life allowed. I didn’t want to be on a campus where social life was based on excluding people from the get go.

+1
Same here. I really don’t get the mentality of Greek life as a whole. I had a ton of friends in college - and lots of parties - with no Greek presence.