Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

OP here. One would think so. The divorce lawyer I hired is really good and I was fired up to go to court and be done with this bullshit until we started discussing custody. She says that there just aren’t enough cases like this for it to be clear that being subjected to racism by the extended family, instead of the actual parent, is enough. She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I can spend the rest of my life dragging her to court for not complying with supervision.She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I could spend the rest of my life dragging him to court for exposing the kids to his family unsupervised. I also wouldn’t know until after if he had them at his house while the kids were over. Her advice really took the wind out of my sails, but was confirmed by two other lawyers I also consulted. According to another lawyer, 20 years ago when the presumption was in favor of the mother getting custody, this would’ve been a slam dunk full custody case. The law has changed though.

Your lawyer is right. Nowadays if in VA, it is almost impossible to fight 50/50 custody if one spouse wants it. I was in a terrible marriage living completely separate lives since my first kid was conceived in a shock one time in 6 months accident. I had already wanted out of the marriage and he knew I did not want to get pregnant and forced the issue. The feeling of not being married and being roommates and having to have a child together is what happened from the moment I was pregnant. You asked of living separate lives gets better but no it does not it actually just gets worse and the longer the years go on the more dead you feel inside. I stayed eight more years after that first conception. I finally divorced after 10 years total of marriage when my youngest child wasn’t preschool. There was nothing between the two conceptions and also a freak accident. After literally eight years of being completely numb I had to just get out and it was really disappointing and I knew that I would have to do 50-50 custody because if I wanted to fight it it would’ve taken years and an enormous amount of money and I probably would’ve lost anyway but I knew that I could not spend any more years living like that anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, first step here is I think you build support for yourself. Whatever ends up happening you will need strong support network. Get yourself into therapy ASAP. Take the time to speak to a few, have questions prepped. If you can meet 2x/week. Virtual is better than none. Please do this for yourself. You must care for yourself first and have a place to process the resentment to have a clearer mind and heart around decisions moving forward.

OP here. Thank you. You’re totally right. I was in therapy for a while and then got discouraged because talking about the situation while also living it was actually making me feel worse. I’m looking into a new therapist. Maybe some CBT to help my intrusive resentful thoughts might help. Most days, I am a nose to the grindstone kind of person who just goes about life. Today is a tough day because of an occasion coming up.

PP here. Yes, therapy can be emotionally messy because it brings forth that which you have packed away or put to the side so you can get through the day to day. Try and keep appointment days light schedule wise or schedule some free time before and after just to give yourself space to air out or rest. Take care. I know a lot of people on here are mentioning the word “fault”. That’s a tricky word word because it connotes blame. Sometimes what I think is more helpful is the words personal responsibility. There are certainly moments and opportunities where you have been personally responsible for your current situation. After all, we all consciously or unconsciously curate our lives. Therapy will be great for processing this in. I don’t see it as your “fault”. You may have unconsciously made decisions that furthered your current predicament. But all that will slowly and surely change as you bring things to consciousness and accept responsibility for your part in it (I really think no need for “fault” language. Things are hard enough as they are for all parties involved). I wish you the very best. I truly believe you will make it to the other side of this. Focus on yourself and wheee you can take responsibility and move forward. I truly believe you can get through this to feeling “free”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can still be a regulating influence on your kids even if they are spending time away from you with the racist paternal family members. Consider the message nthat you're sending them while continuing to stay with the father.

I totally get the unique pressures you're under with twins and a child with special needs, though. You haven't directly cited that as an issue, but I can only imagine how hard it would be a raise a child with special needs as a single parent. I know I couldn't handle my ASD child by myself.

OP here. Caring for my daughter is totally fine. Once I understood the reality of therapies, different cognitive development, and released the expectations I had based on neurotypical children, I leaned into her care and I don’t even think of it as a big deal most days.

Out of curiosity, do you have an incredibly flexible job? Accepting the situation and understanding what you have to do is one thing. Actually having the time to do it is entirely different.

OP here. I don’t want to give too many details, but I was able to structure things over the course of about five years to accommodate what my daughter needs.

Ok. That will certainly help a lot if you do ultimately decide to move forward with divorce, assuming you can maintain whatever arrangement you have.

I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

I would suggest finding a therapist that is preferably the same race or similar race to you. They can empathize with you in a way a white therapist can’t, and may be able to offer you suggestions, or at least a space to process everything you’ve been subjected to over the years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Omg PP, give it a rest. Any sensible person can see she was explaining her story on an anonymous forum in the easiest way as pieces of information became relevant. Maybe she started out not wanting to give a lot of identifying information in case other readers know her IRL and then she said eff it.

OP, just ignore these posts. Your posts are reasonable to the rest of us, and I'm sorry you are in this situation. My personal opinion is you should stay until your kids are teens and continue therapy for yourself or throw yourself into distracting activities.

+1
I'm in the same boat, OP. I'd love to be your friend and prop eachother up when things get rough. Good luck to you.

OP here. Thank you both for your kindness. <3

I'm so sorry OP. This is a horrible situation. Earlier in the thread before the bullies derailed it, I was going to ask if your DH is a good father. I guess it's a rhetorical question since he willingly stood by as his family racially insulted your kids. I hate him along with you. Does he have any redeeming father qualities? Can you at least count on him as another body that helps with daily kid routines?

I fully understand protecting kids above all else, and feel awful for you. I had a shitty MIL, but not to the extent of yours. If you need a few laughs, let me know. I'll check back again. Maybe your FIL will follow his beloved soon.

There has to be some legal protection that lawyers are no familiar with. You said your attorney mentioned your case as unusual. Keep logging everything. You're kinder than me because I'd never allow kids to zoom or FT with the outlaws.

Horrible people. Stay strong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can still be a regulating influence on your kids even if they are spending time away from you with the racist paternal family members. Consider the message nthat you're sending them while continuing to stay with the father.

I totally get the unique pressures you're under with twins and a child with special needs, though. You haven't directly cited that as an issue, but I can only imagine how hard it would be a raise a child with special needs as a single parent. I know I couldn't handle my ASD child by myself.

OP here. Caring for my daughter is totally fine. Once I understood the reality of therapies, different cognitive development, and released the expectations I had based on neurotypical children, I leaned into her care and I don’t even think of it as a big deal most days.

Out of curiosity, do you have an incredibly flexible job? Accepting the situation and understanding what you have to do is one thing. Actually having the time to do it is entirely different.

OP here. I don’t want to give too many details, but I was able to structure things over the course of about five years to accommodate what my daughter needs.

Anonymous wrote:

You can still be a regulating influence on your kids even if they are spending time away from you with the racist paternal family members. Consider the message nthat you're sending them while continuing to stay with the father.

I totally get the unique pressures you're under with twins and a child with special needs, though. You haven't directly cited that as an issue, but I can only imagine how hard it would be a raise a child with special needs as a single parent. I know I couldn't handle my ASD child by myself.

OP here. Caring for my daughter is totally fine. Once I understood the reality of therapies, different cognitive development, and released the expectations I had based on neurotypical children, I leaned into her care and I don’t even think of it as a big deal most days.

Out of curiosity, do you have an incredibly flexible job? Accepting the situation and understanding what you have to do is one thing. Actually having the time to do it is entirely different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about this too. Is there a path back from this situation? My wife and I are in a vaguely comparable situation. We had our problems before the pandemic. I wouldn't say things took a turn during the pandemic- I might be more accurate to say it accelerated and emphasized the feelings of resentment.

It's probably fair to say we function more as co-parenting roommates than a married couple. Things are usually relatively civil, but I'm not sure either one of us really likes each other. We get what we need to do with the kids ready for daycare in the morning, and bed at night, and then mostly go our separate ways once they're asleep. We tried marriage counseling for a while, but found it unhelp, perhaps even counterproductive.

We talk about divorce a bit. My wife dismisses it quite quickly. I'm not sure if she think I'm serious. And to a certain extent, I'm not sure I am, either. As bad as the marriage itself is, it seems fairly likely that life as a whole would get worse with a divorce, between the kids, finances, and general logistics of life.

The pandemic certainly didn't help, but I don't see our problems going away post-pandemic either. Is this the typical path of people that stay together another 10-15 years until the kids are out of the house?

OP here. I’m sorry you’re in a similar position. What created your resentment? Do you think coparenting as divorced parents could work with your wife or would leaving the kids with her half the time likely be bad for them?

So, having read more of your posts, the underlying issues are very different. I don't think there's the same level of anger (and perhaps hate?) that you are experiencing.

A lot of it comes down to the division of parenting responsibilities, exacerbated by our respective jobs. We have a child with special needs, which is an incredible amount of work during normal times, but has been even harder with schools being closed. It escalates from there, with both of us believing the other one isn't willing to make sacrifices for the each other or the family.

I simply don't know how either of us would be able to deal with the kids if we were divorced. Therapies are expensive and time consuming. We're struggling immensely with two of us- it would be nearly impossible if we were apart. And I don't know we'd afford it.

Anonymous wrote:Black woman with white DH. Sister, I am going to tell you the truth that will be hard to hear: you cannot leave anytime soon. The cultural dislocation, loss of control over whom they see or don't see. What if your DH marries a racist woman of whom his family approves? Your kids will be eaten alive. When we married outside the race we gave ourselves a higher burden and a greater responsibility to stick by the father of our kids for their well-being. I feel you fully on not wanting to stay with your DH for excellent reason but if he wants to stay married you should make a 5-year plan that prominently features whatever it takes to get you through to the next stage -- self-care of any effective kind, therapy for you, developing more of those close friendships that bring you through tough times because you are stuck in the war zone for at least a few years. I wish you all the best.

OP here. Thanks for sharing this take. It makes me want to lay down and cry all day, but I honestly think the divorce lawyer I hired was tiptoeing in the direction of saying this without saying it. You’re right that I probably need to shore up internal and external resources that will help me make peace with what putting my kids first looks like in this situation right now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

Sorry OP, I can respect what you are saying here. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

I think you need therapy for you to figure out what is best here.

I get what you are saying about not wanting your kids to be around your husband's family, but I'm not sure that's sustainable for the long run.

You were on the brink of divorce before with the custody issue looming large. What was different then?

OP here. What was different is that I thought full custody was a lot likelier than it probably is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

I think you need therapy for you to figure out what is best here.

I get what you are saying about not wanting your kids to be around your husband's family, but I'm not sure that's sustainable for the long run.

You were on the brink of divorce before with the custody issue looming large. What was different then?

You can still be a regulating influence on your kids even if they are spending time away from you with the racist paternal family members. Consider the message nthat you're sending them while continuing to stay with the father.

I totally get the unique pressures you're under with twins and a child with special needs, though. You haven't directly cited that as an issue, but I can only imagine how hard it would be a raise a child with special needs as a single parent. I know I couldn't handle my ASD child by myself.

OP here. Caring for my daughter is totally fine. Once I understood the reality of therapies, different cognitive development, and released the expectations I had based on neurotypical children, I leaned into her care and I don’t even think of it as a big deal most days.