Anonymous
03/07/2021 18:44
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why you preface your post by claiming how you love living in a mostly immigrant neighborhood when it’s clear that the end result is that you and your children feel isolated and are struggling to make connections. It seems like you like the idea in theory/being able to claim your “woke” creds but not so much in practice.
I kind of agree with this jerk. There’s just something so cringe-inducing about this whole thing. Like “hey I love the immigrants in my immigrant neighborhood so much!” Except they don’t ever talk to me, we aren’t friends or even acquaintances, and I can’t seem to trick them into a relationship.
They’re not zoo animals or collectible commemorative plates. They’re just people. And apparently they don’t want to hang out with some random white people over the weekend.
They don’t want to hang out with Americans. Plenty of immigrants are white and still prefer to not be with Americans.
Signed - white immigrant.
You don’t speak for all immigrants, but it’s clear that you think you’re better than both Americans and non-white immigrants.
Signed- brown immigrant.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 18:39
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why you preface your post by claiming how you love living in a mostly immigrant neighborhood when it’s clear that the end result is that you and your children feel isolated and are struggling to make connections. It seems like you like the idea in theory/being able to claim your “woke” creds but not so much in practice.
I kind of agree with this jerk. There’s just something so cringe-inducing about this whole thing. Like “hey I love the immigrants in my immigrant neighborhood so much!” Except they don’t ever talk to me, we aren’t friends or even acquaintances, and I can’t seem to trick them into a relationship.
They’re not zoo animals or collectible commemorative plates. They’re just people. And apparently they don’t want to hang out with some random white people over the weekend.
They don’t want to hang out with Americans. Plenty of immigrants are white and still prefer to not be with Americans.
Signed - white immigrant.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 18:06
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why you preface your post by claiming how you love living in a mostly immigrant neighborhood when it’s clear that the end result is that you and your children feel isolated and are struggling to make connections. It seems like you like the idea in theory/being able to claim your “woke” creds but not so much in practice.
I kind of agree with this jerk. There’s just something so cringe-inducing about this whole thing. Like “hey I love the immigrants in my immigrant neighborhood so much!” Except they don’t ever talk to me, we aren’t friends or even acquaintances, and I can’t seem to trick them into a relationship.
They’re not zoo animals or collectible commemorative plates. They’re just people. And apparently they don’t want to hang out with some random white people over the weekend.
They are her neighbors and parents of her child’s school friends. She isn’t trying to catch em all like Pokémon, she is seeking advice about forming genuine connections with them. My parents were immigrants and while I rolled my eyes at some of the generalizations in this thread, I don’t see what the point is of shitting on OP.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 17:55
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why you preface your post by claiming how you love living in a mostly immigrant neighborhood when it’s clear that the end result is that you and your children feel isolated and are struggling to make connections. It seems like you like the idea in theory/being able to claim your “woke” creds but not so much in practice.
I kind of agree with this jerk. There’s just something so cringe-inducing about this whole thing. Like “hey I love the immigrants in my immigrant neighborhood so much!” Except they don’t ever talk to me, we aren’t friends or even acquaintances, and I can’t seem to trick them into a relationship.
They’re not zoo animals or collectible commemorative plates. They’re just people. And apparently they don’t want to hang out with some random white people over the weekend.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 17:45
Subject: Making friends with immigrant families
We live in a similar neighborhood, and the best ice-breaker for us was to throw a full-class birthday party and put “parents and siblings welcome” on the invitation.
I didn’t get a lot of RSVPs, often just a vague “yeah, they said they could come” second hand from my kid, so I had no idea what to expect on the day. I knew from my Pakistani and Indian friends that it’s just sort of assumed the whole family will come along, and I thought the Ethiopian and Ghanan families might be the same. So I bought a ton of food that we could eat over the next week or two if there were leftovers, had plenty in reserve just in case, and hoped for the best.
Every single family showed up, sometimes with parents, grandparents, and all the kids in tow. I didn’t have a lot planned for kids younger/older than my kid’s class, but they didn’t care. They all had a fabulous time running around the backyard and eating every scrap of food, and the parents at least made an attempt to mingle before gradually separating into cultural and language groups. We all just kind of went with the flow, and let the kids take the lead.
After that, we never had trouble with play dates because the parents knew us. Not everyone reciprocated, though, I suspect in part because they had smaller living spaces. No biggie, the kids were polite and appreciative, and I didn’t mind.
My kid did have a few friends over the years whose parents just assumed the younger siblings would be invited, but most were fine if we occasionally said the kids were hoping to have some time on their own this time. I agonized over how to say no the first time one mom asked if the younger sister could come to a sleepover party, but she was totally chill about it.
I didn’t get a lot of RSVPs, often just a vague “yeah, they said they could come” second hand from my kid, so I had no idea what to expect on the day. I knew from my Pakistani and Indian friends that it’s just sort of assumed the whole family will come along, and I thought the Ethiopian and Ghanan families might be the same. So I bought a ton of food that we could eat over the next week or two if there were leftovers, had plenty in reserve just in case, and hoped for the best.
Every single family showed up, sometimes with parents, grandparents, and all the kids in tow. I didn’t have a lot planned for kids younger/older than my kid’s class, but they didn’t care. They all had a fabulous time running around the backyard and eating every scrap of food, and the parents at least made an attempt to mingle before gradually separating into cultural and language groups. We all just kind of went with the flow, and let the kids take the lead.
After that, we never had trouble with play dates because the parents knew us. Not everyone reciprocated, though, I suspect in part because they had smaller living spaces. No biggie, the kids were polite and appreciative, and I didn’t mind.
My kid did have a few friends over the years whose parents just assumed the younger siblings would be invited, but most were fine if we occasionally said the kids were hoping to have some time on their own this time. I agonized over how to say no the first time one mom asked if the younger sister could come to a sleepover party, but she was totally chill about it.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 17:41
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Child of non-white-collar immigrants here. I'll give you some ideas for why it is hard to make friends with immigrants.
Lack of shared experience. Most non-western immigrants come from rather tribal mentalities.
Fear of your corrupting liberal loosey-goosey influence. They don't want your daughter talking about kissing and makeup with their daughter. They certainly don't want your kids showing their kids porn videos on their phones.
Lack of shared values - see above. If you think Arizona State is fine, no thanks to the playdate.
Insecurity. They don't want their kids to hear about your fabulous family vacation to Orlando and how they rode the dolphins because their family can't afford such experiences.
They just don't identify with you because they don't know much about American culture and its wide variety.
People fear what they don't understand.
Lack of shared experience. Most non-western immigrants come from rather tribal mentalities.
Fear of your corrupting liberal loosey-goosey influence. They don't want your daughter talking about kissing and makeup with their daughter. They certainly don't want your kids showing their kids porn videos on their phones.
Lack of shared values - see above. If you think Arizona State is fine, no thanks to the playdate.
Insecurity. They don't want their kids to hear about your fabulous family vacation to Orlando and how they rode the dolphins because their family can't afford such experiences.
They just don't identify with you because they don't know much about American culture and its wide variety.
People fear what they don't understand.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 17:11
Subject: Making friends with immigrant families
I am the daughter of Chinese immigrants, and the Biggest issue was transportation in suburbia. My father worked overseas + my mom worked full time thirty minutes away. I could never do get togethers after school because my lol would never be at pick-up (we went to after-school) and was worried about imposing on an American family if I were to stay four hours after school, especially because we couldn’t reciprocate. I also did all the communication with my friends’ families- my mom was super self-conscious of her English, white parents seemed super nice, and on the most basic level (in the south), she had no idea how to address them. Seriously, the one or two times we did this, there were protracted car negotiations about what we were supposed to call them, if we were supposed to bring a gift, if she was expected to come in...
All this to say- it’s not a matter of being more friendly. It’s about there being layers of social niceties in a “play date” that are Not Transparent at all.
All this to say- it’s not a matter of being more friendly. It’s about there being layers of social niceties in a “play date” that are Not Transparent at all.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:49
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:diversity is very important to white Americans. not so much to other nationalities.
That’s because the other families are the diversity
Both of these raise interesting points.
In the current climate, it is a double-edged sword. While having a “diverse” group of friends does not prove that a white person or a white family is not racist, you do get the impression from whites that NOT having a “diverse” group of friends is problematic and fails to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism. This odd approach feels to me like it desirable for whites (as is the case with OP) to demonstrate they are all in on diversity and anti-racism by “collecting” Diversity in their lives through building friendships with neighbors and making friends across cultures specifically for the purpose of reflecting that commitment. It’s an unsettling phenomenon to watch. I want my friends to like me and want to befriend me for our shared interests and ease of being together that hopefully has nothing to do with my country of origin or my complexion that may help improve their appeal as anti-racist. OPs approach seems well intentioned but feels comfortable inorganic. I don’t think it’s the immigrants’ problem to solve OPs “Lack of diversity crisis” in her relationships.
[/quote
Honestly, it just sounds like she’s trying to be nice. She is doing a friendly thing. Let’s not DCUM this.
Maybe. But maybe it’s also a chance to educate nice American white lady about how her view of the world may not be the only or correct view. It’s a chance to allow OP to sit with her own discomfort and be okay with it. After all, not to point out the obvious, but that probably doesn’t happen that much in OP’s world.
Ugh. Why “woke” is so hard to take seriously in a post.
She is literally just inviting people over. You know, being neighborly? She asked for tips on best way to do it. She is being nice. Can we ever let people be nice without attacking and shoving our role credentials in people’s faces?
*woke credentials
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:48
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:diversity is very important to white Americans. not so much to other nationalities.
That’s because the other families are the diversity
Both of these raise interesting points.
In the current climate, it is a double-edged sword. While having a “diverse” group of friends does not prove that a white person or a white family is not racist, you do get the impression from whites that NOT having a “diverse” group of friends is problematic and fails to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism. This odd approach feels to me like it desirable for whites (as is the case with OP) to demonstrate they are all in on diversity and anti-racism by “collecting” Diversity in their lives through building friendships with neighbors and making friends across cultures specifically for the purpose of reflecting that commitment. It’s an unsettling phenomenon to watch. I want my friends to like me and want to befriend me for our shared interests and ease of being together that hopefully has nothing to do with my country of origin or my complexion that may help improve their appeal as anti-racist. OPs approach seems well intentioned but feels comfortable inorganic. I don’t think it’s the immigrants’ problem to solve OPs “Lack of diversity crisis” in her relationships.
[/quote
Honestly, it just sounds like she’s trying to be nice. She is doing a friendly thing. Let’s not DCUM this.
Maybe. But maybe it’s also a chance to educate nice American white lady about how her view of the world may not be the only or correct view. It’s a chance to allow OP to sit with her own discomfort and be okay with it. After all, not to point out the obvious, but that probably doesn’t happen that much in OP’s world.
Ugh. Why “woke” is so hard to take seriously in a post.
She is literally just inviting people over. You know, being neighborly? She asked for tips on best way to do it. She is being nice. Can we ever let people be nice without attacking and shoving our role credentials in people’s faces?
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:26
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:diversity is very important to white Americans. not so much to other nationalities.
That’s because the other families are the diversity
Both of these raise interesting points.
In the current climate, it is a double-edged sword. While having a “diverse” group of friends does not prove that a white person or a white family is not racist, you do get the impression from whites that NOT having a “diverse” group of friends is problematic and fails to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism. This odd approach feels to me like it desirable for whites (as is the case with OP) to demonstrate they are all in on diversity and anti-racism by “collecting” Diversity in their lives through building friendships with neighbors and making friends across cultures specifically for the purpose of reflecting that commitment. It’s an unsettling phenomenon to watch. I want my friends to like me and want to befriend me for our shared interests and ease of being together that hopefully has nothing to do with my country of origin or my complexion that may help improve their appeal as anti-racist. OPs approach seems well intentioned but feels comfortable inorganic. I don’t think it’s the immigrants’ problem to solve OPs “Lack of diversity crisis” in her relationships.
Honestly, it just sounds like she’s trying to be nice. She is doing a friendly thing. Let’s not DCUM this.
Maybe. But maybe it’s also a chance to educate nice American white lady about how her view of the world may not be the only or correct view. It’s a chance to allow OP to sit with her own discomfort and be okay with it. After all, not to point out the obvious, but that probably doesn’t happen that much in OP’s world.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:24
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:diversity is very important to white Americans. not so much to other nationalities.
That’s because the other families are the diversity
Both of these raise interesting points.
In the current climate, it is a double-edged sword. While having a “diverse” group of friends does not prove that a white person or a white family is not racist, you do get the impression from whites that NOT having a “diverse” group of friends is problematic and fails to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism. This odd approach feels to me like it desirable for whites (as is the case with OP) to demonstrate they are all in on diversity and anti-racism by “collecting” Diversity in their lives through building friendships with neighbors and making friends across cultures specifically for the purpose of reflecting that commitment. It’s an unsettling phenomenon to watch. I want my friends to like me and want to befriend me for our shared interests and ease of being together that hopefully has nothing to do with my country of origin or my complexion that may help improve their appeal as anti-racist. OPs approach seems well intentioned but feels comfortable inorganic. I don’t think it’s the immigrants’ problem to solve OPs “Lack of diversity crisis” in her relationships.
Completely inorganic. Not “comfortable” inorganic. Sorry.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:24
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:diversity is very important to white Americans. not so much to other nationalities.
That’s because the other families are the diversity
Both of these raise interesting points.
In the current climate, it is a double-edged sword. While having a “diverse” group of friends does not prove that a white person or a white family is not racist, you do get the impression from whites that NOT having a “diverse” group of friends is problematic and fails to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism. This odd approach feels to me like it desirable for whites (as is the case with OP) to demonstrate they are all in on diversity and anti-racism by “collecting” Diversity in their lives through building friendships with neighbors and making friends across cultures specifically for the purpose of reflecting that commitment. It’s an unsettling phenomenon to watch. I want my friends to like me and want to befriend me for our shared interests and ease of being together that hopefully has nothing to do with my country of origin or my complexion that may help improve their appeal as anti-racist. OPs approach seems well intentioned but feels comfortable inorganic. I don’t think it’s the immigrants’ problem to solve OPs “Lack of diversity crisis” in her relationships.
Honestly, it just sounds like she’s trying to be nice. She is doing a friendly thing. Let’s not DCUM this.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:22
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:diversity is very important to white Americans. not so much to other nationalities.
That’s because the other families are the diversity
Both of these raise interesting points.
In the current climate, it is a double-edged sword. While having a “diverse” group of friends does not prove that a white person or a white family is not racist, you do get the impression from whites that NOT having a “diverse” group of friends is problematic and fails to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism. This odd approach feels to me like it desirable for whites (as is the case with OP) to demonstrate they are all in on diversity and anti-racism by “collecting” Diversity in their lives through building friendships with neighbors and making friends across cultures specifically for the purpose of reflecting that commitment. It’s an unsettling phenomenon to watch. I want my friends to like me and want to befriend me for our shared interests and ease of being together that hopefully has nothing to do with my country of origin or my complexion that may help improve their appeal as anti-racist. OPs approach seems well intentioned but feels comfortable inorganic. I don’t think it’s the immigrants’ problem to solve OPs “Lack of diversity crisis” in her relationships.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:20
Subject: Making friends with immigrant families
Concur on above. It’s COVID so people are hesitant. Contact parents to get to know them first. We don’t send our kids to houses of families that we don’t know. It’s a bit of American culture that my DH will likely never adapt to. Plus, it is work to hang out with people who don’t speak your language. If they do that M-F, the weekends are the time to relax, kick their feet up and be themselves.
Anonymous
03/07/2021 16:02
Subject: Re:Making friends with immigrant families
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why you preface your post by claiming how you love living in a mostly immigrant neighborhood when it’s clear that the end result is that you and your children feel isolated and are struggling to make connections. It seems like you like the idea in theory/being able to claim your “woke” creds but not so much in practice.
You suck.
+1
Maybe she included that so readers would note her good intentions at outreach and establishing connections, and would take her plea for advice as earnest and sincere.
I think that’s fair.
Except I also cringed at the “own kind” reference, as that seemed less than generous. OP may need to allow for the possibility that her neighbors may not be comfortable conversing in her native language or prefer just to smile and wave in a neighborly way without making the situation progress deeper than that. Not everYone desires a close-knit community in the way that PP describes. Doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate that you are a polite neighbor who takes his trash in and keeps the yard neat and tidy.