Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

that program can be satisfied by a once a week half hour pull out

+1. Also, high IQ does not guarantee a child a spot in any VA gifted education program. There are kids with gifted level IQs who were not accepted for AAP or even pull outs, and likewise, there are kids with 110-115 IQs in AAP. FCPS is allowed to label any kid as "gifted" or "not gifted" in their opaque selection process without any specific criteria or consistency to the process. A kid with a 145 IQ who is not deemed as "gifted" by the AAP selection committee is not legally entitled to any gifted services at all.

All of this is true and is one of the BEST examples of a breakdown of this system in FCPS when comparing its intent to its practical application. The criteria of the "Gifted Behavior Rating Scale" that teachers are required to fill out on each applicant has FAR too much weight and obviously favors students by race (even if subconcious bias) AND favors students who are compliant in a gen-ed classroom. We had a neighbor who was obviously extremely gifted (near perfect scores on his NNAT and COGAT) whose teacher rated him very low on the scale because he often neglected to do the work, was disorganized, exhibited some undiagnosed ADHD behaviors, was sometimes "acting out" in class. It is shocking to me that this child was denied access to the AAP track simply because he wasn't a model student in the gen-ed classroom. To me, he should be the first in line for this access, because his behaviors compared to his scores demonstrate that the gen-ed environment is not "reaching" him to unlock his full potential as a scholar. High rating as a teacher-pleaser should not be a criteria.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

This isn’t an argument for aap at all. Aap is not a gifted program. It’s not even that advanced. Aap kids are barely getting any real math acceleration in elementary school.

No. The reason aap is so loved by parents who can get their kids into the program is that it feels exclusive. It is very similar to a mediocre private school. It is just a way to get your kid into a better class.

So it’s an extremely flawed public education program that is completely unnecessary. Many gifted programs like this across the country at least serve to keep high performing students in failing districts and helps with diversity in segregated areas. Aap doesn’t do that.

yes. that is the point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I previously posted how Algebra was being removed as an option for 6th graders in LCPS.

Looking at the state website explaining curriculum changes, there is a mention of detracking.
The idea is to not separate kids too much and saying that having kids of different ability level in the same class is beneficial to all.
There is also mention of equity in the curriculum.

It appears there is a push in Virginia DOE to remove higher level classes to reduce the achievement gap, particularly if there is a
racial disparity between who is taking the classes.

Fairfax has also adopted critical race theory and a push for equity, so AAP there is likely going to be reduced.

Has anyone seen detracking mentioned at meetings of a school board or other committees?

OP, your racism is showing.

How so?
Are you claiming that Virginia DOE does not mention race in its curriculum page linked above?
Are you claiming that there is not a racial disparity in academic enrollment?
Virginia AG has already concluded that there was racial discrimination by LCPS with its admissions to AOS.
My original post was not about AAP with which I am not familiar but with the general 'advanced academic programns'.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

This isn’t an argument for aap at all. Aap is not a gifted program. It’s not even that advanced. Aap kids are barely getting any real math acceleration in elementary school.

No. The reason aap is so loved by parents who can get their kids into the program is that it feels exclusive. It is very similar to a mediocre private school. It is just a way to get your kid into a better class.

So it’s an extremely flawed public education program that is completely unnecessary. Many gifted programs like this across the country at least serve to keep high performing students in failing districts and helps with diversity in segregated areas. Aap doesn’t do that.

Absolutely true. And the fact that they are identifying these gifted kids in second grade and then glossing over the fact that most of them are no better than any other student by high school should have led to the abandonment of this silly money waster years ago. In our ES right now we have gen ed and level 3 AAP in virtual classes with 40 students, and the classes are terrible. Meanwhile the AP coordinator is teaching level 4 math 6 kids in a small group class every day, claiming they "need" the extra advanced level. But meanwhile we've got a hundred other kids who aren't even getting their basic needs met. This program is utterly ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:I previously posted how Algebra was being removed as an option for 6th graders in LCPS.

Looking at the state website explaining curriculum changes, there is a mention of detracking.
The idea is to not separate kids too much and saying that having kids of different ability level in the same class is beneficial to all.
There is also mention of equity in the curriculum.

It appears there is a push in Virginia DOE to remove higher level classes to reduce the achievement gap, particularly if there is a
racial disparity between who is taking the classes.

Fairfax has also adopted critical race theory and a push for equity, so AAP there is likely going to be reduced.

Has anyone seen detracking mentioned at meetings of a school board or other committees?

OP, your racism is showing.

Anonymous wrote:Just because there are not many blacks at TJ doesn’t mean that there aren’t many smart black students in FCPS. This is totally SES and cultural. We used to live in Alexandria/Springfield and there was an African immigrant population whose parents cared very much for their children’s education. I was actually really surprised at how many black kids were at kumon. My very Americanized Asian kid moaned and groaned and we ended our kumon contract as soon as we could get out.

Indians are often darker skinned than Hispanics and African Americans.

I feel like Indians are the most discriminated against. I mean their skin is as dark as blacks yet they are never included in race as brown people.

It's all about what you/they see yourself as relative to others. Do you think you are somehow intellectually inferior to the "standard" (as in whites)? Ask any Indian that question and the answer will be a strong No. They would actually be offended that you ask that question. If any other race truly believes that they are not inferior but the outcomes don't match their expectations, then there's probably an effort gap that needs to be addressed.

As a general rule, intelligence is equally distributed across races. Sure, the tails of the normal curve may be fatter or thinner in some populations or the mean may be a bit higher/lower but not enough to make a real difference on average. Everyone needs to internalize this and then look at successful families that are not your race (who you think are comparable to you intellectually), see why their outcomes are better than yours, and address that gap. Once you do this at the family level, find other like-minded families and try to do this at a community level. Very soon, negative perceptions associated with your community will begin to change. Think of how African immigrants were perceived about 20 years ago compared to now. There is a distinct difference in how society perceives native African Americans vs African immigrants. How do you think that happened?

No government hand out or law can fix this..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

This isn’t an argument for aap at all. Aap is not a gifted program. It’s not even that advanced. Aap kids are barely getting any real math acceleration in elementary school.

No. The reason aap is so loved by parents who can get their kids into the program is that it feels exclusive. It is very similar to a mediocre private school. It is just a way to get your kid into a better class.

So it’s an extremely flawed public education program that is completely unnecessary. Many gifted programs like this across the country at least serve to keep high performing students in failing districts and helps with diversity in segregated areas. Aap doesn’t do that.

Sounds like its time to increase rigor in AAP, and in school in general.

Exactly. No one's saying AAP isn't flawed and couldn't be improved (and lord knows FCPS isn't any better on the SpEd end of the spectrum), but having some sort of class, track, or differentiation for learners of all levels isn't just an elaborate status game. (The status conscious go to actual private where Muffy and Thad won't have to see the poors in the hallway.) I'd be fine with an actual gifted program for my AAP kid, but right now, AAP and supplementation based on the kid's interests and strengths are what we have. I already pulled my SpEd kid for private because the AAP center, with the exception of one amazing case worker, doesn't care about them and has to be strong-armed into the bare minimum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a system where kids are placed based on ability is great but am reminded of the kids who bought into the concept that they were not smart because they were in the lowest track. For many it becomes a self perpetuating belief. The ones who did not buy into the idea had parents who were engaged and helped their kids but that was, in my limited experience, a very small group. The education gap that people are trying to solve is not going to be addressed by tracking. The different tracks will be mainly defined by socio-economic/racial backgrounds because the kids are more likely to come from homes where education is not a priority for a long list of reasons.

Sure, but what's the solution? Holding other kids back so some kids don't feel bad is a terrible idea.

I'd rather see subject-by-subject tracking than across the board tracking (like AAP). I don't think kids would take the same hit to their self esteem if they were low in something, but high or at least average in other things.

I don't have an answer to your first question, I wish it was that easy but it is not.

I do think that tracking by subject makes sense but I think that it is more challenging to build a class in elementary school because of kids needing to be in different groups. In MS and HS the kids change classes each period but that doesn't seem to happen in ES. One would think that differentiation is the answer but you end up with the more advanced kids not having their needs met because the Teacher needs to work with the kids who are not on grade level. I wish there was a way to say differentiate and make sure that the Teacher spends a set amount of time with each group of kid each week but I cannot see that happening.

I am not sure why the kids in 3 grade and up cannot change classes for different subjects but that doesn't seem to happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

This isn’t an argument for aap at all. Aap is not a gifted program. It’s not even that advanced. Aap kids are barely getting any real math acceleration in elementary school.

No. The reason aap is so loved by parents who can get their kids into the program is that it feels exclusive. It is very similar to a mediocre private school. It is just a way to get your kid into a better class.

So it’s an extremely flawed public education program that is completely unnecessary. Many gifted programs like this across the country at least serve to keep high performing students in failing districts and helps with diversity in segregated areas. Aap doesn’t do that.

Sounds like its time to increase rigor in AAP, and in school in general.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

This isn’t an argument for aap at all. Aap is not a gifted program. It’s not even that advanced. Aap kids are barely getting any real math acceleration in elementary school.

No. The reason aap is so loved by parents who can get their kids into the program is that it feels exclusive. It is very similar to a mediocre private school. It is just a way to get your kid into a better class.

So it’s an extremely flawed public education program that is completely unnecessary. Many gifted programs like this across the country at least serve to keep high performing students in failing districts and helps with diversity in segregated areas. Aap doesn’t do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

that program can be satisfied by a once a week half hour pull out

+1. Also, high IQ does not guarantee a child a spot in any VA gifted education program. There are kids with gifted level IQs who were not accepted for AAP or even pull outs, and likewise, there are kids with 110-115 IQs in AAP. FCPS is allowed to label any kid as "gifted" or "not gifted" in their opaque selection process without any specific criteria or consistency to the process. A kid with a 145 IQ who is not deemed as "gifted" by the AAP selection committee is not legally entitled to any gifted services at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

that program can be satisfied by a once a week half hour pull out

Anonymous wrote:There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

All kids are entitled to FAPE (not just SpED kids), and Virginia law requires schools to offer some sort of "gifted" education program. Grade skipping introduces a whole new set of problems. I already have a kid who is youngest in their grade and whose IQ doesn't match their emotional maturity, so skipping a grade is going to compound problems, not make them better. It is a good idea for some kids, but, for most, it's not. To say nothing of ending up with a kid who's ready for college at 16 or 17, which isn't great either.

There is way too much focus on AAP classes in FCPS and it is creating a new form of segregation. If your kid is so smart and isn't challenged in their class then look into them skipping a grade.

I've said this is previous threads. I think AAP is the best they can do in elementary school. I agree it's very flawed; the admission process is not fair, it's not consistent across schools, and bright gen ed kids get left out. But it's what we got.
What I don't understand is the need for it in middle school. I think at that point, kids should test or be placed in classes according to their strengths. They shouldn't be stuck in a track based on how they performed in second grade. And no-not every parent is savvy enough to try to apply to AAP in later grades. Make classes gen ed/Honors/Advanced Honors in middle school.