Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

When you are young your instincts and judgements are less matured and your perception of dangerous behavior not as evolved as an adult. This isn’t just lack of experience, it’s biological and a reflection of brain and emotional development. Moreover, people like Manson, who groomed Wood from a young age, intentionally desensitize their victims to inappropriate and/or dangerous acts; it’s the entire point of grooming and how they prey on and ultimately exploit their victims. Lastly, in Hollywood, where children are adultified and sexualized, predatory behavior is - or has been historically - normalized.

All of which is to day, you ARE victim blaming. And you are substantiating it by using terms like “good judgement” that negate that young victims of rape, abuse, and assault are often deprived through grooming, lack of appropriate boundaries of adults around them, lack of supervision of truly caring, responsible adults, and sheer youth to detect what is assault versus affection, rape versus consensual sex, and “normal” versus inappropriate behavior.

Please stop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The victim blaming on this thread is disgusting. Do you all really not understand grooming, gaslighting, or the cycle of abuse???

?

No, we get that.

Do you not understand that his reputation precedes him? This wasn’t some clean cut choir boy. He told the world he was a weirdo into weird, gory, dark kink. That’s who he is.

Anyone with eyes could tell he wasn’t normal and would be bad news.

Well, she was a teenager, and she alleges that he groomed her. That could mean months or years of trying to overcome any instinctual caution she might have felt toward him.

But why was she hanging around him in the first place?

It’s not like he was a normal guy.

A weird celebrity but a celebrity nonetheless paid attention to her, so she saw an opportunity to advance her career or party on his dime. She took a big risk given what the world knew about him.

You must have grown up pretty sheltered if you thought a) he was all that weird and b) don't have any friends who were charmed by creepy older guys as teens (and those guys didn't even have any power/fame/money). She was already an actress and on the Hollywood scene. And 18 year olds are pretty well known for not listening to advice because "he said I'm different from all the other girls".

Once upon a time I was a little goth kid and you would never know in a million years unless I told you. Nowadays I'm a CPA and a boring married mom in the burbs. And so are all my old goth friends. Manson was actually considered "goth lite" - being a "Mansonite goth" was like being a poseur.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The victim blaming on this thread is disgusting. Do you all really not understand grooming, gaslighting, or the cycle of abuse???

?

No, we get that.

Do you not understand that his reputation precedes him? This wasn’t some clean cut choir boy. He told the world he was a weirdo into weird, gory, dark kink. That’s who he is.

Anyone with eyes could tell he wasn’t normal and would be bad news.

Well, she was a teenager, and she alleges that he groomed her. That could mean months or years of trying to overcome any instinctual caution she might have felt toward him.

But why was she hanging around him in the first place?

It’s not like he was a normal guy.

A weird celebrity but a celebrity nonetheless paid attention to her, so she saw an opportunity to advance her career or party on his dime. She took a big risk given what the world knew about him.

I commented up thread, but just want to add what a sick f’er he is, and I’m proud of her for coming forward and going public. It’s nice to see he was dropped from his label.
👏👏

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

There was a lot of press at the time fawning all over him for basically being the polar opposite of his persona in real life. A really calm, thoughtful, intelligent, and even shy guy who loved puppies and kittens and was the height of non-threatening. I think Dita originally put a lot of that narrative out there when they were together, but it was definitely a thing. He is actually pretty intelligent and well spoken but quiet in interviews. I can see that narrative making you question yourself, especially at 18.

I remember that. I remember thinking he was creepy AF, and couldn't believe anyone would listen to his stuff, but I remember a real narrative that it was "art" and that he was actuall a really intelligent, kind guy who was making some sort of point about .... I do not even know -- it never made sense to me. I feel like there are a couple of dangerous narratives going around. One is that it is "art" to elevate things that are just really gross; and two that there is no such thing as a bad kink -- that it's all okay so long as its consensual. I think the latter leads to young women feeling like they are prudish if they think something is gross or creepy, so they try to be okay with stuff they are not okay with. I stopped reading the Slate advice colum because there were so many questions and answers that I felt were normalizing weird fetishes. I'm not saying we should penalize that stuff (assuming its consensual), but I think it's dangerous to normalize things like BDSM and other kinks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this and some of the other stories coming o light give strong support for educating kids about what healthy relationships look like.

We need to stop glamorizing the bad /troubled boy, phase that every girl needs to have.


Some people are in fact very sick and very dangerous and they can and will hurt you and we need to be giving that message very clearly and how to spot those people, and stay away from them. And when that fails how to get out.

I agree with this because most people who are 'bad boys' dress like your average person. This guy dressed like he was bad news, with the makeup, clothes, song lyrics, disturbing music videos, etc. His Hollywood persona uses a cult serial killer in his name! What more could people need to say stay away from this maniac?

You're focusing on is his stage persona which he used to get famous and sell his music. As you mentioned, rapists come in all kinds of packages, so let's not focus on what he's wearing. #notallgoths

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

There was a lot of press at the time fawning all over him for basically being the polar opposite of his persona in real life. A really calm, thoughtful, intelligent, and even shy guy who loved puppies and kittens and was the height of non-threatening. I think Dita originally put a lot of that narrative out there when they were together, but it was definitely a thing. He is actually pretty intelligent and well spoken but quiet in interviews. I can see that narrative making you question yourself, especially at 18.

I wonder if Dita found out he was grooming/being inappropriate with Evan Rachel Wood? They started dating right after his divorce and Dita is quoted as saying something very bad happened for her to pack up all her belongings and move out on Christmas Eve.

I think that is highly likely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

That is what other posters are trying to say when they refer to the cycle of abuse. When you've been abused/groomed throughout childhood, you're not able to reconize what are seemingly obvious red flags bc abusive behaviors have been normalized. In fact, abusers might feel familiar and therefore safe to you bc it's what you are used to. It often takes years of experience and therapy to unpack why we do what we do and to recognize our own patterns. As someone who had an emotionally abusive/dysfunctional childhood, I can absolutely see the way those experiences impacted my choices. I too chose older men who I can now see were predators. I didn't have the tools to realize this at the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

There was a lot of press at the time fawning all over him for basically being the polar opposite of his persona in real life. A really calm, thoughtful, intelligent, and even shy guy who loved puppies and kittens and was the height of non-threatening. I think Dita originally put a lot of that narrative out there when they were together, but it was definitely a thing. He is actually pretty intelligent and well spoken but quiet in interviews. I can see that narrative making you question yourself, especially at 18.

I wonder if Dita found out he was grooming/being inappropriate with Evan Rachel Wood? They started dating right after his divorce and Dita is quoted as saying something very bad happened for her to pack up all her belongings and move out on Christmas Eve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

There was a lot of press at the time fawning all over him for basically being the polar opposite of his persona in real life. A really calm, thoughtful, intelligent, and even shy guy who loved puppies and kittens and was the height of non-threatening. I think Dita originally put a lot of that narrative out there when they were together, but it was definitely a thing. He is actually pretty intelligent and well spoken but quiet in interviews. I can see that narrative making you question yourself, especially at 18.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The victim blaming on this thread is disgusting. Do you all really not understand grooming, gaslighting, or the cycle of abuse???

?

No, we get that.

Do you not understand that his reputation precedes him? This wasn’t some clean cut choir boy. He told the world he was a weirdo into weird, gory, dark kink. That’s who he is.

Anyone with eyes could tell he wasn’t normal and would be bad news.

Well, she was a teenager, and she alleges that he groomed her. That could mean months or years of trying to overcome any instinctual caution she might have felt toward him.

Where were her parents? This is horrible

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The victim blaming on this thread is disgusting. Do you all really not understand grooming, gaslighting, or the cycle of abuse???

?

No, we get that.

Do you not understand that his reputation precedes him? This wasn’t some clean cut choir boy. He told the world he was a weirdo into weird, gory, dark kink. That’s who he is.

Anyone with eyes could tell he wasn’t normal and would be bad news.

Well, she was a teenager, and she alleges that he groomed her. That could mean months or years of trying to overcome any instinctual caution she might have felt toward him.

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

IT’S NOT VICTIM BLAMING!!!!! I have enormous sympathy for her. But DAMN, let’s use good judgment and instincts ladies!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this and some of the other stories coming o light give strong support for educating kids about what healthy relationships look like.

We need to stop glamorizing the bad /troubled boy, phase that every girl needs to have.


Some people are in fact very sick and very dangerous and they can and will hurt you and we need to be giving that message very clearly and how to spot those people, and stay away from them. And when that fails how to get out.

I agree with this because most people who are 'bad boys' dress like your average person. This guy dressed like he was bad news, with the makeup, clothes, song lyrics, disturbing music videos, etc. His Hollywood persona uses a cult serial killer in his name! What more could people need to say stay away from this maniac?

I want to be clear, I'm not saying she deserved to be abused because she ignored the red flags.

But a lot of times in these discussions people get caught up in the ideal, yes ideally bad people who would harm you would not exist. But they do, so I think we fail people in particular women and girls when we glamorize toxic relationships or act like red flags exist. I guess for lack of better analogy, no one would blame a child for being kidnaped, but we would be failures as parents if we didn't teach our kids that not everyone is their friend and that they can't just go off with anyone.

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone assumed that it was Marilyln Manson considering she was with him when she was very young (and was probably abused by men before him). I cannot believe the victim blaming on this thread. You lot are disgusting.

I think it's wrong of you to decide that Evan was abused by men before when she has no said so herself.