Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Why would all the rich kids be white without affirmative action? Plenty of minority candidates are well qualified on their own merits.

OP's entire complaint is about kids that are qualified on their own merits but she still thinks the only reason they got in is affirmative action. To wit:

Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand what you want my kids to do, do you want them to lie about their race/Heritage because they aren’t brown enough for you? We speak Spanish at home is that enough?

Legit question ... I have a two-part response:

First: For your own family and kids, I'd say fill out the forms accurately and let the chips fall as they do. Some forms have categories for "non-caucusian hispanic descent" and I guess that involves a judgment call about caucasian or not (your question about "brown enough") ... But the system is the system. I see no reason to deviate based on this discussion.

Second: On the larger policy question, I'm curious: If you were designing the system, would you provide an affirmative action advantage to families like yours, and if so, why (or why not)? From my POV, I could see a broad range of edifying responses to this, and lots of interesting questions in response (e.g. If yes for you, what about the Irish, etc)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Perfect. +1000

I just don’t understand what you want my kids to do, do you want them to lie about their race/Heritage because they aren’t brown enough for you? We speak Spanish at home is that enough?

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP ... Arguably letting white latinos benefit from affirmative action is a double insult = letting the oppressor benefit as though he/she were the oppressed ... but it's hard to know what to do about it since hardly anyone in Latin America or the US is 100% European or 100% anything else ... we're all descended from many backgrounds ... so you're counting on self-identification in the box checking process. Friends of ours debated which box to check: Both parents of Asian descent, but the mom was born & grew up in South America, so technically non-white Latino, but wasn't sure the Latino box was meant to apply to her or her children: What would you do in that situation?

I’d read the form literally and answer the question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latinos, we are not white enough, or black enough to “count”. Geez.

But you get yo take advantage of affirmative action while some can still receive or be entitled to white privilege. Good deal!

But if you are a white Latino then you get the side eye from people like OP.

Actually, I could give a f*&% about getting the side eye from OP. That's the least of it -- what I also get is:

"Immigrants like your family are wonderful people, a credit to your race ... it's the illegals coming in from Mexico that I'm talking about." (A statement made by classmate at a reunion of my top SLAC.)

"Could you explain to the cleaning staff about the recycling, please?" (A request from a colleague at my law firm.)

And, the ever-popular -- "I love Sophia Vergara on Modern Family!" (Stated in a gushing way by many people including a fellow parishioner at my church.)

Sure, on one level these encounters are hilariously funny, but they also tell you a lot of about how clueless these people actually are.

I agree with OP ... Arguably letting white latinos benefit from affirmative action is a double insult = letting the oppressor benefit as though he/she were the oppressed ... but it's hard to know what to do about it since hardly anyone in Latin America or the US is 100% European or 100% anything else ... we're all descended from many backgrounds ... so you're counting on self-identification in the box checking process. Friends of ours debated which box to check: Both parents of Asian descent, but the mom was born & grew up in South America, so technically non-white Latino, but wasn't sure the Latino box was meant to apply to her or her children: What would you do in that situation?

Anonymous wrote:I’m trying to figure out how you know these kids are “qualified” to get into the top schools but that it’s their ethnicity that got them admitted? Do you work for the school and see their records? Or you assume they couldn’t have gotten in any other way besides saying they are Latino?

^^^ THIS. You are assuming the kids are less qualified, but you don't have their transcripts or any other inside information. Maybe you are just systematically under-estimating Latino kids?

I understand your frustration, OP. I'm sure that others are frustrated when the Obama girls get counted as affirmative action candidates, too. For what it's worth, my white-looking Latino kid has one very brown grandmother and significant indigenous ancestry on 23andMe. He also has two light-skinned Latino grandparents and their phenotype won out. Ancestry isn't as simple as we'd like it to be. I'd like to think that my Latino kid will be a champion for all Latinos, including those with much less privilege. I do agree that the affirmative action movement in this country needs to be fixed, even though my child and I have benefitted from it (with high SAT scores and other qualifications, I will add!).

You seem to misunderstand the words "Affirmative Action." The Obama girls were not admitted to university on the basis of affirmative action. They, like every other presidential child, could write their own ticket due to the prestige of having a presidential child choose a specific school.

That's not "affirmative action." That's celebrity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point of affirmative action as a matter of law is to remedy past discrimination or the discriminatory effects of past practices. It is not to give an advantage to economically underprivileged students -- there are many other programs designed to address that. So, if a school has found that its admissions policies previously caused underrepresentation of those who could '"check the Latino box," then admitting those who can do so remedies that underrepresentation, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the shade of their skin or bank account balance.

In the meantime, poor Asian applicants are excluded from top universities on the basis of race.

Are you saying Asians are underrepresented as a percentage of the population?

No, I am saying Asian Americans are excluded from top universities on the basis of race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point of affirmative action as a matter of law is to remedy past discrimination or the discriminatory effects of past practices. It is not to give an advantage to economically underprivileged students -- there are many other programs designed to address that. So, if a school has found that its admissions policies previously caused underrepresentation of those who could '"check the Latino box," then admitting those who can do so remedies that underrepresentation, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the shade of their skin or bank account balance.

In the meantime, poor Asian applicants are excluded from top universities on the basis of race.

Are you saying Asians are underrepresented as a percentage of the population?

The irony of, say, giving affirmative action to a white person with some Spanish origin is unavoidable. Tracing lineage to a country with a record of oppression and colonization and conversion....

Anonymous wrote:Not sure in 50 years time all these activist majors will have anything to donate to the endowment... but. Maybe they will, Gov’t might dole them out some SJW money to their NGOs with the 80% overhead.

$20 million gift to Princeton by Kwanza Jones '93 and husband Jose Feliciano '94

https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2020/06/kwanza-jones-donation-wilson-removal

Not sure in 50 years time all these activist majors will have anything to donate to the endowment... but. Maybe they will, Gov’t might dole them out some SJW money to their NGOs with the 80% overhead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latinos, we are not white enough, or black enough to “count”. Geez.

But you get yo take advantage of affirmative action while some can still receive or be entitled to white privilege. Good deal!

But if you are a white Latino then you get the side eye from people like OP.

Side eye but all the privilege of both sides? Sounds like a good deal to me