Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I should have mentioned that we don’t live in DC anymore - moved for her job. Still in another major east coast city. That complicates her ability to just dive back into Uncle Sam, and to some extent makes my lateral moving ability more complicated, but it’s not a deal breaker. I am currently gaining the management and financial chops to become competitive for SES and fin reg, but that will take a couple of years of expertise building and networking. My point was that my earnings ceiling has not been reached. My agency in particular is not DC-centric and won’t block advancement opps just because I am not at HQ.

I realize the root of our problem is in many years of bad financial decisions, a hole that we are just now digging out of. Another part of my resentment is that my wife’s lifestyle desires drive a lot of our stress — they’re not mine. She won’t compromise on the caliber of preschool we put our kids in, insists on organic milk every time, only gets excited by homes that around $1M in cost (in the good school, good commute neighborhoods in our city). So just to be clear, the lifestyle creep is not being driven by me. She needs to sort out of what she wants in life, and not live in eternal bitterness and anger at me for not being able to rescue her. But I understand her resentment at its core and a lot of the above comments make sense.

The resentment has ebbs and flows. When her work is manageable, we chug along ok. But she’s in fire drill land, I become the proxy emotional target for all the things in life she’s frustrated about.

She won't compromise on schools, food quality, etc because it's a proxy for parenting. She feels guilty about not being around more and is trying to make sure that everything she can control is the best available.

You stated upthread that your financial stressors are that you want a house in a good school zone with a short commute and now you're putting that on her. So you no longer care about commutes and schools? Instead of taking anything away from the comments in this thread with advice to try to actually improve your situation, you're pivoting further into "she's the one to blame" with every post. FTR, you applying for jobs (the jobs you've already said you plan to apply for, but now that it could actually help your marriage: "no, that's later") to make more money so she can lean out the way that you already have is not a rescue. It's a partnership. Unless you're willing to say that she's currently "rescuing" you with her higher salary?

I thought the people calling you whiny were projecting, but you're devolving into someone it's hard to pity.

That's bs. Two GS-15 type salaries could buy a very comfortable life including good schools, short commute, etc. Even if OP's wife halves her salary, they would still be fine.

OP seems fine with downsizing to prioritize what's important to the family (i.e. smaller/older house for a shorter commute).

OP's wife wants a more expensive lifestyle but wants him to provide it. No one is entitled to a lavish lifestyle that they can't or aren't willing earn for themselves.

She has to decide if she wants a lower paying job with a better work life balance or a more expensive lifestyle that requires a stressful job with longer hours.

To those who say that OP needs to make more money, OP can't jump to big law or a similarly paying job at this point in his life. If he went into the private sector, he would probably only make around what his wife makes (low $200s). After tax, that means he'd only bring in another $30k or so - which hardly justifies him shifting to a crappier role with more stress and less work life balance.

Likewise, his wife could drop down to government and the hit would only be $40k after tax or so. An amount of money that, once they pay off loans and re-adjust their spending habits and expectations, should not make a huge overall impact on their financial goals.

OP's wife should suck it up for one more year and furiously pay off the loans, and then drop to a government or other better lifestyle job. Household income would be approximately $300k, with zero debt other than mortgage debt (when you eventually buy another house). You would live in a fine house, but not a mcmansion, in a nice neighborhood with good schools. And you'll drive toyotas and mazdas for 8 years (not BMWs and audis). But you will presumably be really happy - kids in good schools and parents both having good work life balance with money to pay for the things you want and need (vacations, extracurriculars, tutors, etc).

I have no idea why your wife is making this about you. You both made shitty financial decisions in your 20s and took on way too much debt to go to law school. It's not like her current salary is so much more than yours that it's dramatically improving your current financial situation. If she was in big law making $500k, maybe I'd get where her resentment was coming from. But her extra income is only like $40k after tax to your HHI. And she's only been making that extra income for a few years - before that she was making government money. She brought $150k of debt into this family solely on her own account. Now she has to take responsibility for that, just like you.

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I should have mentioned that we don’t live in DC anymore - moved for her job. Still in another major east coast city. That complicates her ability to just dive back into Uncle Sam, and to some extent makes my lateral moving ability more complicated, but it’s not a deal breaker. I am currently gaining the management and financial chops to become competitive for SES and fin reg, but that will take a couple of years of expertise building and networking. My point was that my earnings ceiling has not been reached. My agency in particular is not DC-centric and won’t block advancement opps just because I am not at HQ.

I realize the root of our problem is in many years of bad financial decisions, a hole that we are just now digging out of. Another part of my resentment is that my wife’s lifestyle desires drive a lot of our stress — they’re not mine. She won’t compromise on the caliber of preschool we put our kids in, insists on organic milk every time, only gets excited by homes that around $1M in cost (in the good school, good commute neighborhoods in our city). So just to be clear, the lifestyle creep is not being driven by me. She needs to sort out of what she wants in life, and not live in eternal bitterness and anger at me for not being able to rescue her. But I understand her resentment at its core and a lot of the above comments make sense.

The resentment has ebbs and flows. When her work is manageable, we chug along ok. But she’s in fire drill land, I become the proxy emotional target for all the things in life she’s frustrated about.

She won't compromise on schools, food quality, etc because it's a proxy for parenting. She feels guilty about not being around more and is trying to make sure that everything she can control is the best available.

You stated upthread that your financial stressors are that you want a house in a good school zone with a short commute and now you're putting that on her. So you no longer care about commutes and schools? Instead of taking anything away from the comments in this thread with advice to try to actually improve your situation, you're pivoting further into "she's the one to blame" with every post. FTR, you applying for jobs (the jobs you've already said you plan to apply for, but now that it could actually help your marriage: "no, that's later") to make more money so she can lean out the way that you already have is not a rescue. It's a partnership. Unless you're willing to say that she's currently "rescuing" you with her higher salary?

I thought the people calling you whiny were projecting, but you're devolving into someone it's hard to pity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I should have mentioned that we don’t live in DC anymore - moved for her job. Still in another major east coast city. That complicates her ability to just dive back into Uncle Sam, and to some extent makes my lateral moving ability more complicated, but it’s not a deal breaker. I am currently gaining the management and financial chops to become competitive for SES and fin reg, but that will take a couple of years of expertise building and networking. My point was that my earnings ceiling has not been reached. My agency in particular is not DC-centric and won’t block advancement opps just because I am not at HQ.

I realize the root of our problem is in many years of bad financial decisions, a hole that we are just now digging out of. Another part of my resentment is that my wife’s lifestyle desires drive a lot of our stress — they’re not mine. She won’t compromise on the caliber of preschool we put our kids in, insists on organic milk every time, only gets excited by homes that around $1M in cost (in the good school, good commute neighborhoods in our city). So just to be clear, the lifestyle creep is not being driven by me. She needs to sort out of what she wants in life, and not live in eternal bitterness and anger at me for not being able to rescue her. But I understand her resentment at its core and a lot of the above comments make sense.

The resentment has ebbs and flows. When her work is manageable, we chug along ok. But she’s in fire drill land, I become the proxy emotional target for all the things in life she’s frustrated about.

Fin Reg does not like remote workers, even today. You will need to plan to move back to DC for that.

OP here — there are regulators with offices in the city I live in.

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I should have mentioned that we don’t live in DC anymore - moved for her job. Still in another major east coast city. That complicates her ability to just dive back into Uncle Sam, and to some extent makes my lateral moving ability more complicated, but it’s not a deal breaker. I am currently gaining the management and financial chops to become competitive for SES and fin reg, but that will take a couple of years of expertise building and networking. My point was that my earnings ceiling has not been reached. My agency in particular is not DC-centric and won’t block advancement opps just because I am not at HQ.

I realize the root of our problem is in many years of bad financial decisions, a hole that we are just now digging out of. Another part of my resentment is that my wife’s lifestyle desires drive a lot of our stress — they’re not mine. She won’t compromise on the caliber of preschool we put our kids in, insists on organic milk every time, only gets excited by homes that around $1M in cost (in the good school, good commute neighborhoods in our city). So just to be clear, the lifestyle creep is not being driven by me. She needs to sort out of what she wants in life, and not live in eternal bitterness and anger at me for not being able to rescue her. But I understand her resentment at its core and a lot of the above comments make sense.

The resentment has ebbs and flows. When her work is manageable, we chug along ok. But she’s in fire drill land, I become the proxy emotional target for all the things in life she’s frustrated about.

Your wife sounds like an extremely unhappy person and you need to sort out (together or separately) what you want, otherwise the resentment will only get worse and worse.

I still don't see why you feel like you need to make biglaw money to live a good life. There is no reason why you cannot afford a 1M home on two GS-15 salaries or even slightly less than that if you prioritize.

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I should have mentioned that we don’t live in DC anymore - moved for her job. Still in another major east coast city. That complicates her ability to just dive back into Uncle Sam, and to some extent makes my lateral moving ability more complicated, but it’s not a deal breaker. I am currently gaining the management and financial chops to become competitive for SES and fin reg, but that will take a couple of years of expertise building and networking. My point was that my earnings ceiling has not been reached. My agency in particular is not DC-centric and won’t block advancement opps just because I am not at HQ.

I realize the root of our problem is in many years of bad financial decisions, a hole that we are just now digging out of. Another part of my resentment is that my wife’s lifestyle desires drive a lot of our stress — they’re not mine. She won’t compromise on the caliber of preschool we put our kids in, insists on organic milk every time, only gets excited by homes that around $1M in cost (in the good school, good commute neighborhoods in our city). So just to be clear, the lifestyle creep is not being driven by me. She needs to sort out of what she wants in life, and not live in eternal bitterness and anger at me for not being able to rescue her. But I understand her resentment at its core and a lot of the above comments make sense.

The resentment has ebbs and flows. When her work is manageable, we chug along ok. But she’s in fire drill land, I become the proxy emotional target for all the things in life she’s frustrated about.

Fin Reg does not like remote workers, even today. You will need to plan to move back to DC for that.

Anonymous wrote:I am 42 and support a family of 5 on a GS-15 non-supervisory salary, and we have ZERO debt. 2 years ago I finished our remaining mortgage debt. I'm an engineer and not a lawyer, but I watch Matlock occasionally, so the key difference is I didnt pay for law school.

Dont be a fool and take a job you hate and ruin your life.

"In America we buy stuff we dont need with money we dont have to impress people we dont even like"

Yeah but your Fed engineer role is in a suburbs like Gaithersburg, Greenbelt, or Fairfax, right?

OP again.

I should have mentioned that we don’t live in DC anymore - moved for her job. Still in another major east coast city. That complicates her ability to just dive back into Uncle Sam, and to some extent makes my lateral moving ability more complicated, but it’s not a deal breaker. I am currently gaining the management and financial chops to become competitive for SES and fin reg, but that will take a couple of years of expertise building and networking. My point was that my earnings ceiling has not been reached. My agency in particular is not DC-centric and won’t block advancement opps just because I am not at HQ.

I realize the root of our problem is in many years of bad financial decisions, a hole that we are just now digging out of. Another part of my resentment is that my wife’s lifestyle desires drive a lot of our stress — they’re not mine. She won’t compromise on the caliber of preschool we put our kids in, insists on organic milk every time, only gets excited by homes that around $1M in cost (in the good school, good commute neighborhoods in our city). So just to be clear, the lifestyle creep is not being driven by me. She needs to sort out of what she wants in life, and not live in eternal bitterness and anger at me for not being able to rescue her. But I understand her resentment at its core and a lot of the above comments make sense.

The resentment has ebbs and flows. When her work is manageable, we chug along ok. But she’s in fire drill land, I become the proxy emotional target for all the things in life she’s frustrated about.

OP this sounds really hard and I'm sorry people aren't being particularly kind. It sounds like maybe you guys were victim to lifestyle creep but that you've addressed that by downsizing so good for you, that's not easy to do. I really think the solution is not for you to change your job, you make a good salary at a job you love that gives you time with your family. THat is a unicorn and something your wife should be happy about and the only reason she isn't is because she is deeply unhappy with her job. You all need to focus on finding ways out for her. Not necessarily to not working, but you need to, together as partners, make a plan and start coming up with ideas to get her out of this lifestyle of intense work that she is in. Maybe she works in her intense specialization but part time (so that it's more like full time). Yes you willl have a salary cut but even if you make 260k combined that should be doable.

I agree with you that your wife probably could not predict how she would feel after kids. I had a similar problem. I was/am pretty career driven, had my baby and was completely and utterly shocked how much a part of me really wanted to be home with him and how DEEP the guilt was for being away. It's still a struggle but I have a flexible not long hours job so have been able to make it work. I think your wife resents less that you don't make a ton, but that you have a job you love that allows you to spend time with your kids. At the end of the day, if I'm putting myself in her shoes since i relate to her childcare feelings, that is the biggest issue.

Since your debt burden has gone down so much, you just have to have to have to prioritize finding a different path for your wife workwise so she doesn't stay miserable. Even if that means really throwing on your head what you all expected in terms of her career or earning potential over time.

Again, I'm really sorry. to me this isn't that you all did anything wrong but more that law SUCKS in so many ways and sucks the life out of people. Your wife isn't unahppy with you, she's unhappy. She wants to prioritize her family and isn't sure how. I think couples therapy could help you all navigate this and come up with ideas but you'll both have to be willing to think outsdie the box. and you leaving your job so you're also miserable does NOT sound like a solution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Holy cow, was not expecting all that. Some more info, in response to all the questions:

There is a light at the end of the tunnel financially. Our debt is down from 300k to 60k, our youngest will be out of daycare in a year and a half, so that will certainly be a gusher of money (roughly 3500 in take home pay back in our pockets per month). We have dramatically downsized our life, selling a home we were house poor in (another bad decision), and renting an apt instead. Housing costs extremely low. Plus in our defense, we have no credit card debt and both have near perfect credit scores.

What’s the source of our financial stress now? Just affording a down payment and monthly payments on a home in a major east coast city with schools we love and a commute that won’t crush us. What everyone wants. The telework may mitigate the third issue somewhat. Also need to save for college.

Re my wife’s expectations before getting married, this is a major source of my resentment. She never communicated in any way that she’d want to be part-time or stay at home, and that she’d want to marry a primary breadwinner. And I never held myself out as that type. But in fairness to her, we were both clueless about what life would be like with kids, and she probably just didn’t know that about herself. But her criticisms really sting —- I graduated near the top of my class from a good law school, and when I see classmates make partner and provide for their families it really makes me feel terrible. It makes me realize that I wouldn’t blame women for marrying for money. But on the flip side, I am have reasonable options to advance in government beyond a GS-15 (either SES or with a financial regulator, given my area of specialization), and I can see a higher ceiling to my earnings. Just not enough, I guess.

As for housework, look it varies based on how busy we are (remember, I do have a full-time job), so I’d say my median contribution to household and kid tasks is somewhere near 60%, much higher when her work is insane and lower when mine gets busy, which it does sometimes.

You should apply for fin reg jobs now (there are more openings than I've ever seen, and if you have experience and are already a fed you'll have a leg up). She should also be looking for a fed job, unless you're waiting one more bonus cycle or something. This combo of moves (you at SEC or something, her as a GS-14 in some non-frantic agency) effectively flips your income situation, which is what she says she wants, while keeping you in the exact job trajectory you state that you want. It's not clear to me why the obvious solution is brought up as a "sometime, eventually, maybe" instead of "this is what we're doing."

You started off this thread saying she resents you and you feel shame, now you're saying you resent her. If your marriage is worth more than $60k, you need to make some changes. You might not end up in North Arlington but there are plenty of places where two feds can afford a house and good public schools within commuting distance.

I'll say this just because I haven't seen it mentioned: you quit biglaw because it was killing you and went to a GS-13, which is a huge paycut, even though you guys had huge student loans outstanding. That was the right choice for you in every personal way based on what you've said about it - you love your job, it has a good work/life balance, you can see an upward path for your career. Your wife also left a job that she hated, but for more money, and it didn't work out as well for her. But now she feels like taking a paycut isn't a viable option for her - the new job is incredibly stressful, but you have much higher expenses now than when you made the "lean out" decision, there are kids to think about. It's not your fault that she feels stuck, but it would be helpful if you understood why she does and were able to validate that feeling. You got to make the "financially irresponsible" choice of taking a paycut and have reaped benefits, but she feels like that choice is not available to her because you have kids now. This is a situation you can fix as a team, but you need to be working as a team. Make sure she knows you support her taking a step back to a lower paying job, and that you have plans (even if they're long-term) to increase your income.

+1 million all of this. With the new administration coming in, this is basically a once in a lifetime opportunity for government jobs, especially for you if you’re looking to move up to financial regulation. Your wife can get in the govt too at this point. Yes, it’ll be an overall pay cut but I’d have to believe your HHI with two government attorneys would be at least $250k if not closer to $275k with the potential to earn more after a few years? And you only have $60k debt left. Which isn’t too bad at all.

I wouldn’t post here anymore ... I’d take your questions to the jobs forum at this point. There is a solution and it’s a different job for her and moving up for you. Good luck!

I am 42 and support a family of 5 on a GS-15 non-supervisory salary, and we have ZERO debt. 2 years ago I finished our remaining mortgage debt. I'm an engineer and not a lawyer, but I watch Matlock occasionally, so the key difference is I didnt pay for law school.

Dont be a fool and take a job you hate and ruin your life.

"In America we buy stuff we dont need with money we dont have to impress people we dont even like"

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are entitled and whiny. Really? You decided to take a low paying job and now feel bad that wife hates you? She is killing herself and you cannot understand this? Have you tried cutting down your lifestyle creep? You all should be living entirely on your salary. What's wrong with you? With your attitude, any woman would resent you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are a beta male low earner type. It has everything to do with the fact that you are not a problem solver and do not have empathy.

I would be happy if I had a DH making 160k doing something he enjoys.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are entitled and whiny. Really? You decided to take a low paying job and now feel bad that wife hates you? She is killing herself and you cannot understand this? Have you tried cutting down your lifestyle creep? You all should be living entirely on your salary. What's wrong with you? With your attitude, any woman would resent you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are a beta male low earner type. It has everything to do with the fact that you are not a problem solver and do not have empathy.

A GS-15 is not a low-paying job. OP needs to work on lifestyle creep, but his wife is a whiner, too. She's mad that she can't stay at home, and chose to take a job that paid more because, presumably, she also wanted the money. This is something they need to figure out together. Neither of them sounds like a very good decision-maker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Holy cow, was not expecting all that. Some more info, in response to all the questions:

There is a light at the end of the tunnel financially. Our debt is down from 300k to 60k, our youngest will be out of daycare in a year and a half, so that will certainly be a gusher of money (roughly 3500 in take home pay back in our pockets per month). We have dramatically downsized our life, selling a home we were house poor in (another bad decision), and renting an apt instead. Housing costs extremely low. Plus in our defense, we have no credit card debt and both have near perfect credit scores.

What’s the source of our financial stress now? Just affording a down payment and monthly payments on a home in a major east coast city with schools we love and a commute that won’t crush us. What everyone wants. The telework may mitigate the third issue somewhat. Also need to save for college.

Re my wife’s expectations before getting married, this is a major source of my resentment. She never communicated in any way that she’d want to be part-time or stay at home, and that she’d want to marry a primary breadwinner. And I never held myself out as that type. But in fairness to her, we were both clueless about what life would be like with kids, and she probably just didn’t know that about herself. But her criticisms really sting —- I graduated near the top of my class from a good law school, and when I see classmates make partner and provide for their families it really makes me feel terrible. It makes me realize that I wouldn’t blame women for marrying for money. But on the flip side, I am have reasonable options to advance in government beyond a GS-15 (either SES or with a financial regulator, given my area of specialization), and I can see a higher ceiling to my earnings. Just not enough, I guess.

As for housework, look it varies based on how busy we are (remember, I do have a full-time job), so I’d say my median contribution to household and kid tasks is somewhere near 60%, much higher when her work is insane and lower when mine gets busy, which it does sometimes.

Actually, most people in high cost cities don't get the house with great schools and good commute and save for college and have a SAHM and are wealthy. Only some people do. What do rest of folks do? Compromise. When I married my DH, both of us worked like dogs but lived in poverty for 5 years. Guess what? We did not have a child in those 5 years.

You all seem to be living beyond your means and for what? Your wife is stressed, you are stressed and I bet your kids are stressed. You are missing the best years of your children childhood. You need to work with your wife to priortize things in your life. You are making a very good salary on your own. Even if your wife is working, y'all should bank the entirity of her earning and live on only your salary. That is the only way to build wealth.

This. You are living beyond your means, for stuff. You could have the short commute if you were willing to live in a condo. You could have the nice house if you were willing to move further out. You have to decide what matters, and what you can compromise on.

OP, you are entitled and whiny. Really? You decided to take a low paying job and now feel bad that wife hates you? She is killing herself and you cannot understand this? Have you tried cutting down your lifestyle creep? You all should be living entirely on your salary. What's wrong with you? With your attitude, any woman would resent you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are a beta male low earner type. It has everything to do with the fact that you are not a problem solver and do not have empathy.