Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, I don't think one can over-estimate the impact of the Chicago Statement (2014?) and the national attention received in 2016 by the letter sent by the Dean of Students to the incoming freshman class of 2020 affirming the free speech principles in the Chicago Statement. UChicago's committment to free speech and exposing students to diverse and opposing viewpoints and ideas is a true distinctive among the elite schools. It has come under assault during the past year and fingers crossed it can hold now that Pres. Zimmer is leaving.

NP here with kid who was just accepted ED into Chicago a couple of days ago.
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I'm a sometime poster on DCUM who started out at a junior college and ended up at Harvard Law, then after practicing a bit, I ended up consulting in negotiation/conflict resolution. In law school and in consulting, I very much came to believe that we cannot change one another's minds unless we establish an atmosphere that is safe enough for people to express their views without fear of a resulting ad hominem attack. A saying of my mentor was "you cannot change someone's mind until you know where their mind is." Which does not mean assuming you know where their mind is, but rather actually putting one's assumptions aside, listening, and being open to being persuaded yourself.

Anyways, while over time many things in our culture have gotten better, and some things worse, but for purposes of this post, I have been concerned about the de-emphasis on freedom of speech in our culture and schools. I saw that UChicago acceptance letter a few years back and discussed it with my kid. We ended up going to admissions talk given by Dean Nondorf--which did not emphasize this, but wow he is good at what he does--and my kid became set on UChicago. So many years ago now.

I'm concerned, though, that it's like getting accepted to Sparta. I believe she'll get an unparalleled education--assuming she survives it.

Congratulations to your daughter. It sounds like she will thrive at UChicago. It is a special place and she will receive an unparalleled education there while enjoying all Chicago has to offer.

Lots of things to love about UofC and more than a few to dislike, but my Class of 2020 kid’s experience suggests that norms regarding campus speech are no different there than at other elite universities. (Probably generational/social media driven). Not an unparalleled education, but can be an excellent one. Again, true elsewhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, I don't think one can over-estimate the impact of the Chicago Statement (2014?) and the national attention received in 2016 by the letter sent by the Dean of Students to the incoming freshman class of 2020 affirming the free speech principles in the Chicago Statement. UChicago's committment to free speech and exposing students to diverse and opposing viewpoints and ideas is a true distinctive among the elite schools. It has come under assault during the past year and fingers crossed it can hold now that Pres. Zimmer is leaving.

NP here with kid who was just accepted ED into Chicago a couple of days ago.
.
I'm a sometime poster on DCUM who started out at a junior college and ended up at Harvard Law, then after practicing a bit, I ended up consulting in negotiation/conflict resolution. In law school and in consulting, I very much came to believe that we cannot change one another's minds unless we establish an atmosphere that is safe enough for people to express their views without fear of a resulting ad hominem attack. A saying of my mentor was "you cannot change someone's mind until you know where their mind is." Which does not mean assuming you know where their mind is, but rather actually putting one's assumptions aside, listening, and being open to being persuaded yourself.

Anyways, while over time many things in our culture have gotten better, and some things worse, but for purposes of this post, I have been concerned about the de-emphasis on freedom of speech in our culture and schools. I saw that UChicago acceptance letter a few years back and discussed it with my kid. We ended up going to admissions talk given by Dean Nondorf--which did not emphasize this, but wow he is good at what he does--and my kid became set on UChicago. So many years ago now.

I'm concerned, though, that it's like getting accepted to Sparta. I believe she'll get an unparalleled education--assuming she survives it.

Congratulations to your daughter. It sounds like she will thrive at UChicago. It is a special place and she will receive an unparalleled education there while enjoying all Chicago has to offer.

Anonymous wrote:My kids are a legacy at my Ivy (think HYP) and flat out decided they preferred the quirkiness and intellectual atmosphere at U Chicago and went ED. I am a very active alum for my college by the way, so I think they would have had a good chance of admission. I disagree with the pp about it being for kids who didn't get into the Ivys. My kids had the scores and top national achievements, but just loved U Chicago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, I don't think one can over-estimate the impact of the Chicago Statement (2014?) and the national attention received in 2016 by the letter sent by the Dean of Students to the incoming freshman class of 2020 affirming the free speech principles in the Chicago Statement. UChicago's committment to free speech and exposing students to diverse and opposing viewpoints and ideas is a true distinctive among the elite schools. It has come under assault during the past year and fingers crossed it can hold now that Pres. Zimmer is leaving.

NP here with kid who was just accepted ED into Chicago a couple of days ago.
.
I'm a sometime poster on DCUM who started out at a junior college and ended up at Harvard Law, then after practicing a bit, I ended up consulting in negotiation/conflict resolution. In law school and in consulting, I very much came to believe that we cannot change one another's minds unless we establish an atmosphere that is safe enough for people to express their views without fear of a resulting ad hominem attack. A saying of my mentor was "you cannot change someone's mind until you know where their mind is." Which does not mean assuming you know where their mind is, but rather actually putting one's assumptions aside, listening, and being open to being persuaded yourself.

Anyways, while over time many things in our culture have gotten better, and some things worse, but for purposes of this post, I have been concerned about the de-emphasis on freedom of speech in our culture and schools. I saw that UChicago acceptance letter a few years back and discussed it with my kid. We ended up going to admissions talk given by Dean Nondorf--which did not emphasize this, but wow he is good at what he does--and my kid became set on UChicago. So many years ago now.

I'm concerned, though, that it's like getting accepted to Sparta. I believe she'll get an unparalleled education--assuming she survives it.

Anonymous wrote:Kids call UChicago "the place where fun goes to die" and "ChiRaq". They say its for kids who didn't get into the Ivys and Stanford/MIT and have a chip on their shoulder to keep saying its on the same the level. Cross admits for Univ of Chicago vs. any Ivy or Stanford is woefully low.

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, I don't think one can over-estimate the impact of the Chicago Statement (2014?) and the national attention received in 2016 by the letter sent by the Dean of Students to the incoming freshman class of 2020 affirming the free speech principles in the Chicago Statement. UChicago's committment to free speech and exposing students to diverse and opposing viewpoints and ideas is a true distinctive among the elite schools. It has come under assault during the past year and fingers crossed it can hold now that Pres. Zimmer is leaving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But schools with a student body similar to UChicago have fared better in those rankings. For an institution of its size, caliber, and prestige it still feels out of place and doesn't do justice in rankings like WSJ and Forbes that look at student outcomes using these metrics.

The quality of student may be similar, but the variables previously mentioned still vary. For example, 40% of UofC graduates take jobs in the Midwest. At Harvard, 40% of graduates take jobs in MA and NYC alone. Even if graduates from both schools are taking similar type jobs, where will the salary be higher, Chicago or NYC? And, does that difference really tell you anything about the quality of education or a graduate’s lifetime career opportunities?

And the University of Chicago's ROI turns out to be not that different from the state school, University of Illinois-Chicago.

Anonymous wrote:But schools with a student body similar to UChicago have fared better in those rankings. For an institution of its size, caliber, and prestige it still feels out of place and doesn't do justice in rankings like WSJ and Forbes that look at student outcomes using these metrics.

The quality of student may be similar, but the variables previously mentioned still vary. For example, 40% of UofC graduates take jobs in the Midwest. At Harvard, 40% of graduates take jobs in MA and NYC alone. Even if graduates from both schools are taking similar type jobs, where will the salary be higher, Chicago or NYC? And, does that difference really tell you anything about the quality of education or a graduate’s lifetime career opportunities?

Anonymous wrote:But schools with a student body similar to UChicago have fared better in those rankings. For an institution of its size, caliber, and prestige it still feels out of place and doesn't do justice in rankings like WSJ and Forbes that look at student outcomes using these metrics.