But thanks for your response and the previous one from another poster. It makes sense. I think we/I were socialized to have boxes to put people in with clearly defined rules and roles.

I’ll file this under it’s complicated and it’s really non of my business how this specific couple deals with their personal life.

I'm the PP who mentioned Caitlyn Jenner, and I think the fact that so many of the most prominent trans* celebrities are AMAB (assigned male at birth) and have decided to pursue gender confirmation surgery tends to make people believe that there's one way to "be trans" and that way is full social and physical transition.

But especially among the younger generation, there's a lot more flex there. People are transitioning in different ways, that make sense to them, and that might not conform to the "gender binary."

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

NP. It's interesting that you chose to respond to a post that answered the question in good faith by complaining about "those people" who don't explain things to you.

I'd also push back on the idea that asking questions always means caring. There's a phenomenon that is rife in discussions of trans issues that can be called "JAQ'ing off."

It's Just Asking Questions, except the questions are often confrontational, rude, or can easily be Googled.

Do you take my post as being rude? It wasn't intended to be. I was thanking the PP for kindly taking the time to answer the question and responding to other impatient posters. You are right, some people can be dismissive and disrespectful when they ask questions. But not everyone.

My "activist" that I had in mind when writing was my college aged niece and her cohorts who are always judging even well-intentioned older people who are trying their best to understand and to do and say the right thing. I didn't want to brand all young people the same way, because of course, they aren't. I have kids of my own who are in their 20s and an older spouse who is slow to understand some of these issues. The kids are great at helping to educate him.

My spouse is the most inclusive loving human being on earth (a much better human being than I am). When I married him, I knew that he would accept and fiercely love our children, just as they are. However, he struggles with pronouns, names, and categories that are unfamiliar to him. Despite his loving and open heart, his words and questions don't always come out as politically correct. We did not grow up with pronouns or trans people and most of these categories did not exist for the majority of our lives. I've read extensively about these issues, but still, many of these terms overlap or are inconsistently defined. I find them difficult to keep straight. This is, after all, a discussion forum, in which questions are routinely asked and answered, regardless of whether information is available elsewhere. Again, I appreciate the kind posters who take the time to answer questions asked in good faith.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

Not all nuances are explained with google.

If I were straight and then my H came out as trans, and I don't want to be with a woman I might not want to remain married.

I think the original question was asked in a rude way, but the partner can not be ignored.

Nobody's trying to ignore the partner. My point is if you want to find out how partners feel about it when their spouse comes out as trans, Google it. You can find articles, forum discussions, advice columns. There's an entire subreddit dedicated to people whose partner's have come out of trans and what that experience is like. It's all there for you to find if you take a tiny bit of initiative.

Oh no I have to read Reddit... My personality is too addictive to start that.

But thanks for your response and the previous one from another poster. It makes sense. I think we/I were socialized to have boxes to put people in with clearly defined rules and roles.

I’ll file this under it’s complicated and it’s really non of my business how this specific couple deals with their personal life.

I love him and hope he prospers in both his personal and professional like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

DP. Except that things are constantly evolving and it seems like just when you start to feel like you might get what is going on, there is a new label and a new pronoun and if you don't know it you are labeled anti-whatever. So people are supposed to just "know" the terms of the moment. Gender amounts to a fashion choice these days. I don't care who you like, who you sleep with, or what you wear. If you are a kind person, I'm cool with you. The rest is window dressing and if you focus on it too much, I wonder what is up with you. People are starving, people are dying, climate change, our idiot POTUS's outrage of the day, pandemic, on and on and on. But pronouns...now that is something to devote energy to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

Not all nuances are explained with google.

If I were straight and then my H came out as trans, and I don't want to be with a woman I might not want to remain married.

I think the original question was asked in a rude way, but the partner can not be ignored.

Nobody's trying to ignore the partner. My point is if you want to find out how partners feel about it when their spouse comes out as trans, Google it. You can find articles, forum discussions, advice columns. There's an entire subreddit dedicated to people whose partner's have come out of trans and what that experience is like. It's all there for you to find if you take a tiny bit of initiative.

Not all nuances are explained with google.

If I were straight and then my H came out as trans, and I don't want to be with a woman I might not want to remain married.

I think the original question was asked in a rude way, but the partner can not be ignored.

Yes, but....you were in a cishet relationship to begin with, and you are assuming that your husband would want to go through all of the physical and social changes of "becoming a woman" (let's call this the Caitlyn Jenner model of being trans).

But...not every trans person is in the Caitlyn Jenner mold. Some only want to change socially. Some only want "top" surgery. Some use hormones and some don't. If you are already in a queer relationship, some of this is going to be easier to deal with anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain he/they.

I understand they/them and he/his/him

But why he/they

He's signaling that he doesn't really care whether you use he/his/him or they/theirs/them, but he does not want to be referred to as she/her/hers

Basically, he is saying he's agnostic between those two choices, and folks can use the one that works for them when referring to him/them

NP. I’m kind of impressed that you got all that. I was wondering it too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain he/they.

I understand they/them and he/his/him

But why he/they

He's signaling that he doesn't really care whether you use he/his/him or they/theirs/them, but he does not want to be referred to as she/her/hers

Basically, he is saying he's agnostic between those two choices, and folks can use the one that works for them when referring to him/them

got it, thanks for the explanation (and I did google it first)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

Not all nuances are explained with google.

If I were straight and then my H came out as trans, and I don't want to be with a woman I might not want to remain married.

I think the original question was asked in a rude way, but the partner can not be ignored.

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain he/they.

I understand they/them and he/his/him

But why he/they

He's signaling that he doesn't really care whether you use he/his/him or they/theirs/them, but he does not want to be referred to as she/her/hers

Basically, he is saying he's agnostic between those two choices, and folks can use the one that works for them when referring to him/them

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

It's an umbrella term that can encompass non-cis, non-straight identities.

+1 It's also an identifier that people choose, or don't choose, according to personal preference. I don't know whether Page's wife will still identify as a lesbian, or just queer, or something else entirely and it's honestly not really my business because neither of them are my relative or close personal friend.

It does raise another issue, though, which is that not everyone who identifies as trans* is going to have hormone therapy, or gender confirmation surgery, or anything else. There's a huuuuuuuuuge umbrella under the trans* identity, and no one way of doing it correctly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

NP, but thank you to PP above for answering this question about "queer" because I had the same terminology question and appreciate the information. I support trans people and just want to understand how to do the right thing. Thank you for explaining.

Can somebody explain he/they.

I understand they/them and he/his/him

But why he/they

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

It's an umbrella term that can encompass non-cis, non-straight identities.