Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 20:20     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Also, DCUM isn't the best place for advice about families, most of the posters are the toxic family members and don't realize it. I do agree that an Al anon meeting or other support group/therapist specializing in these matters will be helpful to you.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 20:15     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Keep in mind that it's highly likely one of your kids will struggle with alcoholism before you get on your high horse.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 19:56     Subject: Re:Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
It’s ok to be angry at an addict (or indifferent, or just to feel like preserving one’s own equilibrium by minimizing contact.) in fact, in many cases it is wise (just like it’s often wise to avoid drama with a borderline person, even though that’s also an illness.)

It’s extremely ok to not want to hear an apology from someone who is about two weeks sober. People keep family members at arms length for all kinds of things (like copying their baby name, ffs.)
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 19:47     Subject: Re:Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think you need to attend a few Al-Anon meetings to get yourself into a better place to understand your anger and resentment, and if you're going to be able to accept that and move past it in an effort to help your brother. No one else can do that for you. If you don't want to go to Al-Anon then consider some individual therapy.

Keep in mind that it is okay and even reasonable to be angry with his past behavior. Your brother harmed you and your family.

My question for you is: how long are you going to carry the burden of your anger and resentment? Your brother can't go back and fix what he has done. All he can do is express true regret and try to make amends. And your brother can't control your feelings about what happened - only you can. I don't mean to sound sanctimonious but how long are you going to carry the grudge?

I get it. I have reason to be angry and unhappy with the alcoholic who drove drunk and killed my family. At some point though you have to let it go or it will consume you.

Finally. You have children. Your brother has a disease. Model for your children how you want them to treat other people with a disease.

Sorry if this all sounds too harsh. I know you are feeling hurt. I really hope you try to help your brother. The world could do with one less actively drinking alcoholic in it.


I’m in a similar situation and I co-sign all of this. Anger only hurts the person who carries it. However, there is a difference between forgiving and forgetting. Even if you let him express his regret and, possibly, let go of your anger, you don’t have to resume your relationship or let him be in a position to hurt you again. He probably would occupy less mental space than he is right now.

I have forgiven the drunk that killed my family members. He destroyed his own life, as well. Carrying anger would simply poison my life. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t need to serve out his full term in jail.


I completely agree with you and I am the first poster. I didn't talk about forgiving and forgetting but people made some pretty big assumptions. The distinction that you and I have made is that we see that our anger hurts us more than it hurts the other person.

One final thought. About 3 months after my family died I was talking to my uncle who was counseling me through my grief. A couple had just walked out of his office and they looked devastated. Completely crushed and so woeful. After they had gone I asked what their story was. He told me that they had lost a child to a drunk driver over 20 years ago. I was surprised it had happened so long ago because they looked so freshly devastated. At his suggestion we then walked down to a local diner to get some coffee. One of the waitresses served us and she was so warm and friendly, very full of life. After we left the diner my uncle told me that she also had lost a child to a drunk driver 10-15 years prior.

As we walked back to my car he told me that I had to make a choice. I could be the first couple or I could be like the waitress. What had happened was soul crushing but I had to decide whether I was going to cave to the pressure or whether I was going to survive.

I thought about what he said a lot then and I still think about it a lot now. I have made the choice to survive. I figure that if I am going to be here then I am going to live the best life I can. It doesn't mean I've forgotten what that man did to my family but it does mean that I am not going to let it destroy me either. I've forgiven but I haven't forgotten.

My advice to OP is to decide to let go of his grudge against his brother. It isn't hurting his brother even one little bit. If anything it feeds the brother's sense of injustice and it certainly feeds the family members sense of OP being whatever negative thing it is that they think of OP.

Those of you here who are enabling OP need to consider why you're being so vitriolic towards me and the one or two other people who are encouraging OP to look at his situation through a different lens. I think it would be tremendously helpful if OP begins to attend meetings and also to work with a therapist. It will help OP and it will also help his kids, who can't help but be affected negatively by OP's anger.


You've probably heard the phrase "walk before you run". Yes, it's important to be able to let go of the anger and resentment. It truly will eat you up inside. But people need to do that in their own time. That can be the end goal, but OP still has a lot to process, and advising him to let go of his feelings before he's ready to isn't going to help him in the long run. In fact, those resentments tend to bubble up when you least expect them if you haven't had adequate processing time. Work with a therapist and attend meetings -- absolutely. And of course he should choose not to end up like the couple who's still despondent 20 years later. But he's allowed his time to process this, and he doesn't need to accept the apology yet if he's not ready.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 19:12     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My younger brother just went into rehab after years of alcohol abuse. This is a good thing but he’s now making the rounds with family and apologizing for his bad behavior. We had been close and kids but as we reached out 30’s his drinking got out of control. Over the years he has insulted my family, especially me and my wife totally unprovoked at family gatherings. I didn’t realized the extend of his alcohol abuse then and just thought he was being a jerk and limited contact. Since he’s let me know he wants to talk about this I suddenly feel really mad again about all of his antics. I’m not sure I’m ready to have these conversations with him. Has anyone who has had a family member in the recovery process not participated in these talks?


I'm mean, that is your right (not to meet him). But I guess I'd ask what do you hope to accomplish? Yes, he was a jerk. But, you now know it was influenced by his alcohol problem and b HE WANTS TO APOLOGIZE. Not letting him won't heal your anger.

Now if he was abusive, you have safety issues with seeing him, that's a different issue. But, based on what you say above, I don't understand why you're digging in your heels about receiving an apology. And, FTR, apologizing doesn't mean you have to accept him in your life, have a relationship with him, or do anything else.


So what? Why does the brother's sudden desire to apologize trump everything else? I'm a PP whose brother penned a sorry excuse for an apology. I don't care that he did that because I had a choice about whether I chose to read it or respond (did the first, not the second). But if he suddenly demanded a conversation with me, so he could apologize, I would probably say no. Because the apology isn't suppose to be about the giver, it's about the receiver. And I am not filled with anger that needs healing. I am just a pragmatic person who has discovered that my life is better without him in it.

If the brother has something he desperately needs to get off his chest, he can write it down. Then it is out of his control. If that leaves him with bad feelings, he can go to therapy.


You are flat out lying to yourself if you think that you aren't filled with anger that needs healing. Your post practically pulses with anger.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 19:10     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My younger brother just went into rehab after years of alcohol abuse. This is a good thing but he’s now making the rounds with family and apologizing for his bad behavior. We had been close and kids but as we reached out 30’s his drinking got out of control. Over the years he has insulted my family, especially me and my wife totally unprovoked at family gatherings. I didn’t realized the extend of his alcohol abuse then and just thought he was being a jerk and limited contact. Since he’s let me know he wants to talk about this I suddenly feel really mad again about all of his antics. I’m not sure I’m ready to have these conversations with him. Has anyone who has had a family member in the recovery process not participated in these talks?


I'm mean, that is your right (not to meet him). But I guess I'd ask what do you hope to accomplish? Yes, he was a jerk. But, you now know it was influenced by his alcohol problem and b HE WANTS TO APOLOGIZE. Not letting him won't heal your anger.

Now if he was abusive, you have safety issues with seeing him, that's a different issue. But, based on what you say above, I don't understand why you're digging in your heels about receiving an apology. And, FTR, apologizing doesn't mean you have to accept him in your life, have a relationship with him, or do anything else.


So what? Why does the brother's sudden desire to apologize trump everything else? I'm a PP whose brother penned a sorry excuse for an apology. I don't care that he did that because I had a choice about whether I chose to read it or respond (did the first, not the second). But if he suddenly demanded a conversation with me, so he could apologize, I would probably say no. Because the apology isn't suppose to be about the giver, it's about the receiver. And I am not filled with anger that needs healing. I am just a pragmatic person who has discovered that my life is better without him in it.

If the brother has something he desperately needs to get off his chest, he can write it down. Then it is out of his control. If that leaves him with bad feelings, he can go to therapy.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 18:52     Subject: Re:Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think you need to attend a few Al-Anon meetings to get yourself into a better place to understand your anger and resentment, and if you're going to be able to accept that and move past it in an effort to help your brother. No one else can do that for you. If you don't want to go to Al-Anon then consider some individual therapy.

Keep in mind that it is okay and even reasonable to be angry with his past behavior. Your brother harmed you and your family.

My question for you is: how long are you going to carry the burden of your anger and resentment? Your brother can't go back and fix what he has done. All he can do is express true regret and try to make amends. And your brother can't control your feelings about what happened - only you can. I don't mean to sound sanctimonious but how long are you going to carry the grudge?

I get it. I have reason to be angry and unhappy with the alcoholic who drove drunk and killed my family. At some point though you have to let it go or it will consume you.

Finally. You have children. Your brother has a disease. Model for your children how you want them to treat other people with a disease.

Sorry if this all sounds too harsh. I know you are feeling hurt. I really hope you try to help your brother. The world could do with one less actively drinking alcoholic in it.


I’m in a similar situation and I co-sign all of this. Anger only hurts the person who carries it. However, there is a difference between forgiving and forgetting. Even if you let him express his regret and, possibly, let go of your anger, you don’t have to resume your relationship or let him be in a position to hurt you again. He probably would occupy less mental space than he is right now.

I have forgiven the drunk that killed my family members. He destroyed his own life, as well. Carrying anger would simply poison my life. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t need to serve out his full term in jail.


I completely agree with you and I am the first poster. I didn't talk about forgiving and forgetting but people made some pretty big assumptions. The distinction that you and I have made is that we see that our anger hurts us more than it hurts the other person.

One final thought. About 3 months after my family died I was talking to my uncle who was counseling me through my grief. A couple had just walked out of his office and they looked devastated. Completely crushed and so woeful. After they had gone I asked what their story was. He told me that they had lost a child to a drunk driver over 20 years ago. I was surprised it had happened so long ago because they looked so freshly devastated. At his suggestion we then walked down to a local diner to get some coffee. One of the waitresses served us and she was so warm and friendly, very full of life. After we left the diner my uncle told me that she also had lost a child to a drunk driver 10-15 years prior.

As we walked back to my car he told me that I had to make a choice. I could be the first couple or I could be like the waitress. What had happened was soul crushing but I had to decide whether I was going to cave to the pressure or whether I was going to survive.

I thought about what he said a lot then and I still think about it a lot now. I have made the choice to survive. I figure that if I am going to be here then I am going to live the best life I can. It doesn't mean I've forgotten what that man did to my family but it does mean that I am not going to let it destroy me either. I've forgiven but I haven't forgotten.

My advice to OP is to decide to let go of his grudge against his brother. It isn't hurting his brother even one little bit. If anything it feeds the brother's sense of injustice and it certainly feeds the family members sense of OP being whatever negative thing it is that they think of OP.

Those of you here who are enabling OP need to consider why you're being so vitriolic towards me and the one or two other people who are encouraging OP to look at his situation through a different lens. I think it would be tremendously helpful if OP begins to attend meetings and also to work with a therapist. It will help OP and it will also help his kids, who can't help but be affected negatively by OP's anger.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 15:46     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.


OP, I'm sorry you are dealing with this. A couple of thoughts:

1) I would strongly encourage you to write a letter to your brother (even if you never send it) detailing as many hurtful things that he has done as you can remember. The act of writing it all down may help you to purge some of this anger.

2) The rest of your family are not supporting you. They say that they want you all to "be a family" but it sounds to me like that is exactly what you and your wife have chosen. You have chosen to be family WITH HER and to be loyal to her and to your children and to yourself. If your parents cannot understand that, I'd say that the distance you're putting between yourself and relatives should grow rather than shrink.

3) Some other posters think that your responses indicate that you're holding onto things longer than you need to. I disagree. It sounds to me like this is a pattern of behavior that stretches for years and that there hasn't been any recourse for. Sometimes we set upsetting things aside because there is nothing to be done about them. Then when suddenly there is recourse available, it all comes flooding back. You are not wrong to feel the way you feel, when you are feeling it. Those feelings have been pent up for years, and it now sounds like he wants to be forgiven without being accountable for what he's done. Maybe that's how your parents operate, but you do not have to operate that way.

4) At this stage in his recovery, I'd personally respond that you're glad he's taking care of himself and wish him nothing but the best in his recovery, but that the behaviors that damaged your relationship will take a much longer conversation about what both of you want that relationship to be going forward. He will need to recognize exactly what he's apologizing for, and he will have to be able to hear the ways that it was hurtful - to you, to your wife, to your kids, whatever. This is not the time for that sort of conversation. The reason that amends comes later in the recovery process is that many people new to recovery are in no way ready to actually make amends - they can do half apologies like your brother, or ignore the past and turn over a new leaf to focus on the future, like your parents, but true real accountability is painful and a trigger for many newly sober folx.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 15:24     Subject: Re:Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:I think you need to attend a few Al-Anon meetings to get yourself into a better place to understand your anger and resentment, and if you're going to be able to accept that and move past it in an effort to help your brother. No one else can do that for you. If you don't want to go to Al-Anon then consider some individual therapy.

Keep in mind that it is okay and even reasonable to be angry with his past behavior. Your brother harmed you and your family.

My question for you is: how long are you going to carry the burden of your anger and resentment? Your brother can't go back and fix what he has done. All he can do is express true regret and try to make amends. And your brother can't control your feelings about what happened - only you can. I don't mean to sound sanctimonious but how long are you going to carry the grudge?

I get it. I have reason to be angry and unhappy with the alcoholic who drove drunk and killed my family. At some point though you have to let it go or it will consume you.

Finally. You have children. Your brother has a disease. Model for your children how you want them to treat other people with a disease.

Sorry if this all sounds too harsh. I know you are feeling hurt. I really hope you try to help your brother. The world could do with one less actively drinking alcoholic in it.


I’m in a similar situation and I co-sign all of this. Anger only hurts the person who carries it. However, there is a difference between forgiving and forgetting. Even if you let him express his regret and, possibly, let go of your anger, you don’t have to resume your relationship or let him be in a position to hurt you again. He probably would occupy less mental space than he is right now.

I have forgiven the drunk that killed my family members. He destroyed his own life, as well. Carrying anger would simply poison my life. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t need to serve out his full term in jail.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 12:12     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
OP, my sister went to rehab for alcohol and pot last year and did the 12 step AA program. You should definitely establish boundaries. Please consider going to an Al-Anon meeting, listen to a podcast, find a support group. It did wonders for me. I had to become detached from her crazy, just nonreactive because I had gotten too sucked in too many times.

Good luck.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 12:09     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
If this guy is trying to make amends before he even finishes rehab he is way off beam. Tell him to come back after he has a year clean and sober and a working relationship with an experienced sponsor.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 11:45     Subject: Re:Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Sorry, but no. OP's brother *just* entered rehab/recovery. Relapse is part of that. The onus is on the brother to demonstrate he is making amends, not on OP to actively help him. Sure, he can't go back and fix what he has done, but he should have to reckon with it for a while and truly understand the hurt he's caused. He doesn't get a free pass because he's saying sorry early on in the recovery process. Addicts and alcoholics are master manipulators, sorry, but that's just a sad fact of addiction. You can show compassion without letting him back in to hurt you again. And yes, I learned that in Al-Anon.

OP, you can forgive your brother without having him be a part of your lives. Your anger here is justified. Of course, it is healthy and important to get past that, but don't let anyone rush you into doing or feeling anything you and your family aren't ready to do.



Sooooo...there is a time limit? It is too soon for the brother to apologize even if some of the events occurred years ago? Really? According to your logic the brother has to wait how long exactly before saying he is sorry? I don't think you really paid enough attention in Al-Anon and you need to go back for a refresher. You're cherry picking for things that fit your story. Stop giving advice that is wrong and that does not reflect what the Al-Anon program represents.


Having trouble with reading comprehension?

There's no time limit; his brother can apologize whenever he wants, but OP is under no obligation to respond. It's OP's timeline, not his brother's. And it's not my story. It's a fact. Addicts are abusers and manipulators. They're also used to numbing out and seeking instant gratification to feel better. He's finally coming to terms with the harm he's caused, and that doesn't feel good, so he's seeking a quick respite for that. OP doesn't have to provide it if he's not ready to.

You're the one giving bad advice, as others have pointed out in this thread.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 11:27     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
OP, I think you need to do what feels right to you. I’d encourage you to get some support around these issues, in whatever form is best for you. I’ve found therapy most helpful, personally, but YMMV. My only sibling has struggled with alcohol addiction for close to two decades now, and it’s been a roller coaster. I can’t count the number of times she’s apologized to me. I still love her and support her, but have little contact with her. She—and our parents—have consistently prioritized her fragile sense of self over literally everything else, including her children (my nieces) and my kids. That’s where I draw the line.

You get to decide what’s best for you. You can know that alcohol addiction is a disease, care for your sibling AND still choose to hold firm boundaries. Making this decision into a binary one is fairly typical for families with this dynamic, but it’s not the only way to be. Good luck.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 11:19     Subject: Re:Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:I think you need to attend a few Al-Anon meetings to get yourself into a better place to understand your anger and resentment, and if you're going to be able to accept that and move past it in an effort to help your brother. No one else can do that for you. If you don't want to go to Al-Anon then consider some individual therapy.

Keep in mind that it is okay and even reasonable to be angry with his past behavior. Your brother harmed you and your family.

My question for you is: how long are you going to carry the burden of your anger and resentment? Your brother can't go back and fix what he has done. All he can do is express true regret and try to make amends. And your brother can't control your feelings about what happened - only you can. I don't mean to sound sanctimonious but how long are you going to carry the grudge?

I get it. I have reason to be angry and unhappy with the alcoholic who drove drunk and killed my family. At some point though you have to let it go or it will consume you.

Finally. You have children. Your brother has a disease. Model for your children how you want them to treat other people with a disease.

Sorry if this all sounds too harsh. I know you are feeling hurt. I really hope you try to help your brother. The world could do with one less actively drinking alcoholic in it.


Insufferable. Op can should do what feels right (and not emotionally disruptive) to her. Al-anon is fine for people who find it helpful (as are ammend making convos with people in recovery) but they are not for everyone. The addict is responsible for their behavior and recovery. Op is not an addict and should do as she pleases.
Anonymous
Post 11/10/2020 11:12     Subject: Estranged Sibling entered rehab for alcoholism and wants to talk
Anonymous wrote:My younger brother just went into rehab after years of alcohol abuse. This is a good thing but he’s now making the rounds with family and apologizing for his bad behavior. We had been close and kids but as we reached out 30’s his drinking got out of control. Over the years he has insulted my family, especially me and my wife totally unprovoked at family gatherings. I didn’t realized the extend of his alcohol abuse then and just thought he was being a jerk and limited contact. Since he’s let me know he wants to talk about this I suddenly feel really mad again about all of his antics. I’m not sure I’m ready to have these conversations with him. Has anyone who has had a family member in the recovery process not participated in these talks?


OP, it sounds like one of the issues here is that you are expecting his apology to be kind of perfunctory. He "just" went into rehab and he's planning to come ninth-step you already. In my experience, you are right to have the sense that a legit amends (while it should come as soon as possible) requires more introspection than someone who was "just" in rehab and is now "making the rounds" is giving it. You don't have control over that but if it is part of your resistance, I want to say that I hear it and respect it.