Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are typical days for 3yo
1. Falls asleep in car or on couch at 3pm, can’t hack a whole day. Might stay up till 10
2. Falls asleep in car or couch at 5-6pm. Argh. We have a friend hand out with us until 11:30
3. Today = stayed awake! Played soccer with me and ran hard in the evening. Ready for bed sort of between 8:30-9:40 (done 8:30 but big kids were still getting ready and we did some more stories). Finally fell asleep 10:40. WHY?

NP here. This one is easy. Until you are in a solid routine of staying awake every day, the bedtime will continue to fluctuate.

Ok, I will try even harder. I’m already putting so much into keeping him awake. Every other day or so, it’s like a trophy when DH gets home “he didn’t nap today!” We get so excited and hopeful.

Keep at it! OP I yelled at my kids to stay awake in the back seat of the car so many times that it became a family joke. "Look mommy, Larla is falling asleep!" Big reaction from me. Roars of laughter from both kids.

Op here. Yes I try this a lot. The big kids try to help by talking to him and asking him questions.

I appreciate advise from everyone about his naps but if it could be avoided I would already avoid it. Promise it’s foremost in my mind every day from 12-6. (a noon nap won’t always kill the evening). I cannot cut off all driving before 6pm.

I think it’s the transition from 2yo naps to not needing one. It’s like he just can’t quiiiite make it all day.

Hopefully better sleep just begets better sleep.

As everyone says, put him to bed earlier. If he can get all his sleep at night, you won’t have to fight so hard to keep him awake, or to put an overtired cranky mess to bed.

A 7:00 bedtime may mess with family life for a while, but so does having mom sobbing on the floor night after night. We do what we have to do.

I use melatonin for my 3 and 5 year olds as well. I felt bad about doing it every night so took a break over the summer - they were up until 10:30/11pm at night bouncing off the walls. Now I give them their gummies at 7, in bed by 8. They get way more sleep and are much happier.

I feel your pain. I have struggled with my 5 year old daughter at bedtime for years. I recently discovered kids melatonin gummies (1mg) and they work amazingly well. My daughter is now sleeping at 8:30pm everyday and I have my evenings back for the first time ever. It has been life changing. Can’t believe it took me this long to find a solution.

Has anyone used magnesium flakes in the bath? (Flakes not epsom salt). What was a good source for you?

Lol to the mom who called it drugging. Melatonin is natural.

Anonymous wrote:melatonin

+1 and add magnesium

Anonymous wrote:*10/7 update
I wasn’t able to read the responses until 8:45, so consider that I may implement them beginning tomorrow.

3yo did not nap today despite driving at 6pm.

8:30 gave each of them .5g melatonin and started bedtime
9:25 simple story and goodnight to 3yo, hugged and lovingly/firmly walked out. Didn’t seem to hear him beyond 2 minutes.
9:30 same with 5yo. He asked me for sleepy music but I told him I needed my phone for a few minutes, I’d bring it back in a little while. When I checked back at 9:35 he was out cold.
9:35 same with 9yo. She was pretty much out when we hugged her. She has been easy this year, thank goodness.

So our first 9:30ish evening in several months begins. Thanks you all, and melatonin.

OMG! Your kid doesn’t need drugs! He needs an earlier bedtime!

Going to sleep at 9:30 is ridiculously late for a 3 year old who doesn’t nap. Poor kid. You’re really screwing up his circadian rhythm with forcing him awake in the afternoon and drugging him at night. Just start bedtime at 6:30 and be done with it.

Hi OP -

You are still starting really late for a 3yo who hasn't napped. Back it up. Start at 7:15 - lights out by 8.

Try watching some of the Super Nanny episodes where she tackles bedtime. It's like two nights of hell and then the kid knows the new routine.

If your 3YO falls asleep on the couch at 6pm, don't wake him up. My 3YO is in the same phase where he kind of still needs a nap. When he has one, he has a really hard time falling asleep at a reasonable hour but when he doesn't have one he's a mess. He fell asleep on the couch at 630 last night and we just put him to bed. There was no way in hell I was waking him up and going through the bedtime routine. He slept until 7:15 this morning.

We haven't been giving him a nap and try to start his bedtime routine by 6:30 or 7:00. If we start any letter than that, he turns wild and has a difficult time settling down.

Our 6YO goes to bed a bit later.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are typical days for 3yo
1. Falls asleep in car or on couch at 3pm, can’t hack a whole day. Might stay up till 10
2. Falls asleep in car or couch at 5-6pm. Argh. We have a friend hand out with us until 11:30
3. Today = stayed awake! Played soccer with me and ran hard in the evening. Ready for bed sort of between 8:30-9:40 (done 8:30 but big kids were still getting ready and we did some more stories). Finally fell asleep 10:40. WHY?

NP here. This one is easy. Until you are in a solid routine of staying awake every day, the bedtime will continue to fluctuate.

Ok, I will try even harder. I’m already putting so much into keeping him awake. Every other day or so, it’s like a trophy when DH gets home “he didn’t nap today!” We get so excited and hopeful.

Keep at it! OP I yelled at my kids to stay awake in the back seat of the car so many times that it became a family joke. "Look mommy, Larla is falling asleep!" Big reaction from me. Roars of laughter from both kids.

Op here. Yes I try this a lot. The big kids try to help by talking to him and asking him questions.

I appreciate advise from everyone about his naps but if it could be avoided I would already avoid it. Promise it’s foremost in my mind every day from 12-6. (a noon nap won’t always kill the evening). I cannot cut off all driving before 6pm.

I think it’s the transition from 2yo naps to not needing one. It’s like he just can’t quiiiite make it all day.

Hopefully better sleep just begets better sleep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are typical days for 3yo
1. Falls asleep in car or on couch at 3pm, can’t hack a whole day. Might stay up till 10
2. Falls asleep in car or couch at 5-6pm. Argh. We have a friend hand out with us until 11:30
3. Today = stayed awake! Played soccer with me and ran hard in the evening. Ready for bed sort of between 8:30-9:40 (done 8:30 but big kids were still getting ready and we did some more stories). Finally fell asleep 10:40. WHY?

NP here. This one is easy. Until you are in a solid routine of staying awake every day, the bedtime will continue to fluctuate.

Ok, I will try even harder. I’m already putting so much into keeping him awake. Every other day or so, it’s like a trophy when DH gets home “he didn’t nap today!” We get so excited and hopeful.

Keep at it! OP I yelled at my kids to stay awake in the back seat of the car so many times that it became a family joke. "Look mommy, Larla is falling asleep!" Big reaction from me. Roars of laughter from both kids.

I'm curious about people who say they use melatonin regularly, either for their kids or themselves. My daughter and I both find that it works really well for two or three nights in a row, then is much less effective. So we usually reserve it for one-off nights when we need a reset after a weekend of late nights or morning lie-ins, or to ensure we can fall asleep easily the night before an early or stressful day.

Does anyone else find that melatonin doesn't work for more than a few nights in a row?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:melatonin

I’m on board. Doc is. We do it sometimes.
But I’m concerned about long term use. How do I find out about this?

I don't know, but my 3 YO left me with no choice. We have been using it for a month and he asks to go to bed at 8 pm (he previously would stay up until 11!). We reclaimed our life and I feel so much happier.

+1 I use melatonin for my four year old. It's melatonin or three hour long bedtimes.

*10/7 update
I wasn’t able to read the responses until 8:45, so consider that I may implement them beginning tomorrow.

3yo did not nap today despite driving at 6pm.

8:30 gave each of them .5g melatonin and started bedtime
9:25 simple story and goodnight to 3yo, hugged and lovingly/firmly walked out. Didn’t seem to hear him beyond 2 minutes.
9:30 same with 5yo. He asked me for sleepy music but I told him I needed my phone for a few minutes, I’d bring it back in a little while. When I checked back at 9:35 he was out cold.
9:35 same with 9yo. She was pretty much out when we hugged her. She has been easy this year, thank goodness.

So our first 9:30ish evening in several months begins. Thanks you all, and melatonin.

I would try having 3 yo nap earlier, around 1 or 2 for one hour max. And I agree with the many posters who are saying you need to go for a schedule and stick with it.

If they frequently want water, can you put a no-spill water cup within reach of the bed so they can get it themselves. Are you comfortable saying no snacks after bedtime? We don’t allow them and our kids don’t seem to be suffering.

Something we have done in the past is, if they come out of the room, we return them to the room with as little fanfare as possible (goal is to be silent, but I rarely manage fully silent). We combine this with frequent check-ins, so the kids know that every time we leave the room one of us will be back in about five minutes. Eventually we stretch the time between check-ins longer, but at 3 and 5, I’d start with every five minutes for at least a few weeks. If you alternate turns checking in, or take shifts (you do check-ins from 8-8:30, he takes 8:30-9, etc), you get small intervals of peace and they are more peaceful because hopefully it means you know someone isn’t going to pop out of the room looking for water. Also, you can tell them that whatever they need (unless it is an absolute potty emergency) can wait until you come in.

Also, telling our kids they had permission to leave their beds to go to the bathroom helped (assuming your 3yo is able to handle that - i know my newly minted 3yo isn’t yet). Going to be the potty 20 times turns out to be less interesting if it doesn’t involve interacting with a parent.