Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: I don’t want to re-copy such long posts. I’m curious about what the PPs commenting on FH’s lack of density have in mind. Friendship Heights Village, on the MD side of Western, was probably the earliest example in the area of building a dense, high rise community that could take advantage of public transit options. Are those of you describing the lack of density in FH only talking about the DC side of the neighborhood? I have to say that one of the things that makes living in the area attractive is the mixed-density and the green spaces (thank you GEICO!) that balance out the high rises on the MD side.

The geico campus is a tragic waste of valuable land and a crime against planning. The gigantic surface parking lot would be better used as literally anything else including a jail, tannery, or slaughterhouse. At least those would bring jobs to the area!

In general I find the MD side very unpleasant not because of its high density, but because of its awful suburban street design. It should be a narrow street grid like the DC side.

The GEICO campus is a truly welcome oasis of green space for the people who live in an extremely dense area of high rises. I’ve lived in both Manhattan and FHV — and what makes it livable is the proximity to green spaces and low rise buildings like the GEICO campus — which, not incidentally, houses lots and lots of jobs.

I’m curious. PP: Where do you live? If you’re living in a SFH with your own yard, you might not fully appreciate what it’s like to be quarantined in an apartment, surrounded by other apartments, without a scrap of nature. Proximity to green space actually has health benefits, Unless you’re living next to a tannery, a jail, or a slaughterhouse yourself, you might like the standing for your - um - proposals.
I say this as someone who remembers the area west of Chelsea way before High Line. Animal carcasses swaying from hooks really is probably not a better use for a surface parking lot that at least provides visual relief and welcome space for the community, especially during weekends.

Then it is an oasis for people who don't know the neighborhood they claim to be living in.

The predominant feature of the Geico property is its large surface parking lots.

Of course if you live there then you should now that literally immediately adjacent to the Geico property is Brookdale park which has lots of mature trees, shade and an actual playground. And a block further west along Willard is the Willard Avenue Park which has trails, a creek, a basketball court and another playground!

And a couple of blocks further away across Western is Ft Bayard park.

So no the greenspace on the Geico property is really not of much utility if you know the neighborhood and environmentally it does nothing to make up for the much larger surface parking lots which are terrible for the environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: I don’t want to re-copy such long posts. I’m curious about what the PPs commenting on FH’s lack of density have in mind. Friendship Heights Village, on the MD side of Western, was probably the earliest example in the area of building a dense, high rise community that could take advantage of public transit options. Are those of you describing the lack of density in FH only talking about the DC side of the neighborhood? I have to say that one of the things that makes living in the area attractive is the mixed-density and the green spaces (thank you GEICO!) that balance out the high rises on the MD side.

The geico campus is a tragic waste of valuable land and a crime against planning. The gigantic surface parking lot would be better used as literally anything else including a jail, tannery, or slaughterhouse. At least those would bring jobs to the area!

In general I find the MD side very unpleasant not because of its high density, but because of its awful suburban street design. It should be a narrow street grid like the DC side.

The GEICO campus is a truly welcome oasis of green space for the people who live in an extremely dense area of high rises. I’ve lived in both Manhattan and FHV — and what makes it livable is the proximity to green spaces and low rise buildings like the GEICO campus — which, not incidentally, houses lots and lots of jobs.

I’m curious. PP: Where do you live? If you’re living in a SFH with your own yard, you might not fully appreciate what it’s like to be quarantined in an apartment, surrounded by other apartments, without a scrap of nature. Proximity to green space actually has health benefits, Unless you’re living next to a tannery, a jail, or a slaughterhouse yourself, you might like the standing for your - um - proposals.
I say this as someone who remembers the area west of Chelsea way before High Line. Animal carcasses swaying from hooks really is probably not a better use for a surface parking lot that at least provides visual relief and welcome space for the community, especially during weekends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: I don’t want to re-copy such long posts. I’m curious about what the PPs commenting on FH’s lack of density have in mind. Friendship Heights Village, on the MD side of Western, was probably the earliest example in the area of building a dense, high rise community that could take advantage of public transit options. Are those of you describing the lack of density in FH only talking about the DC side of the neighborhood? I have to say that one of the things that makes living in the area attractive is the mixed-density and the green spaces (thank you GEICO!) that balance out the high rises on the MD side.

The geico campus is a tragic waste of valuable land and a crime against planning. The gigantic surface parking lot would be better used as literally anything else including a jail, tannery, or slaughterhouse. At least those would bring jobs to the area!

In general I find the MD side very unpleasant not because of its high density, but because of its awful suburban street design. It should be a narrow street grid like the DC side.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: I don’t want to re-copy such long posts. I’m curious about what the PPs commenting on FH’s lack of density have in mind. Friendship Heights Village, on the MD side of Western, was probably the earliest example in the area of building a dense, high rise community that could take advantage of public transit options. Are those of you describing the lack of density in FH only talking about the DC side of the neighborhood? I have to say that one of the things that makes living in the area attractive is the mixed-density and the green spaces (thank you GEICO!) that balance out the high rises on the MD side.

FH, MD in fact is quite dense - denser than Manhattan actually though it is quite small (I think it is like 16 acres in total).

But it is very much car oriented density - all of the buildings are actually 4 story parking decks topped by 16 story residential buildings and all of the units have a lot of parking and are poorly connect to the street and it really isn't a lively or interesting place to walk. I would bet the DC side of the line generates more transit usage than the denser MD side.

But that may change as most of the buildings are condos that were built in the 70's and their residents skew heavily older - as those units turn over you may get different patterns of behavior and people who buy there to be within walking distance of the Metro.

Anonymous wrote:DP: I don’t want to re-copy such long posts. I’m curious about what the PPs commenting on FH’s lack of density have in mind. Friendship Heights Village, on the MD side of Western, was probably the earliest example in the area of building a dense, high rise community that could take advantage of public transit options. Are those of you describing the lack of density in FH only talking about the DC side of the neighborhood? I have to say that one of the things that makes living in the area attractive is the mixed-density and the green spaces (thank you GEICO!) that balance out the high rises on the MD side.

Anonymous wrote:DP: I don’t want to re-copy such long posts. I’m curious about what the PPs commenting on FH’s lack of density have in mind. Friendship Heights Village, on the MD side of Western, was probably the earliest example in the area of building a dense, high rise community that could take advantage of public transit options. Are those of you describing the lack of density in FH only talking about the DC side of the neighborhood? I have to say that one of the things that makes living in the area attractive is the mixed-density and the green spaces (thank you GEICO!) that balance out the high rises on the MD side.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had no idea that drive throughs were illegal in DC.

Always wondered why the Wisconsin and Van Ness McDonalds did not have a drive through.

Umm...there are many drive throughs in DC. Van Ness Burger King on Connecticut - Popeys on Georgia Ave to start with...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then after Family housing is created they should lease to places like Jiffy Lube, dollar store, and gyms, karate studios, yoga studios. Starbucks with drive through coffee. Make it a place people can actually live.

People in this DC bubble love to hate their life.

I’d love to have these shops at friendship heights but they would not be able to afford the astronomical rents

Jiffy Lube and drive throughs and dollar stores in Friendship Heights? No thanks - I live in DC because I hate the suburbs but if I need to slum it can still go there.

Luckily DC has made new drive thrus illegal.

And otherwise your comment is weird - FH has 2 Starbucks and TT another and there are numerous Karate and Yoga studios.

Also the only type of housing that is available now on the DC side is "family housing" whatever that even means.

You live in DC because you hate the suburbs, but you choose to live in one of the most suburban parts of DC that is quite literally a stone's throw from the suburbs you profess to hate.

Anonymous wrote:I actually had no idea that drive throughs were illegal in DC.

Always wondered why the Wisconsin and Van Ness McDonalds did not have a drive through.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then after Family housing is created they should lease to places like Jiffy Lube, dollar store, and gyms, karate studios, yoga studios. Starbucks with drive through coffee. Make it a place people can actually live.

People in this DC bubble love to hate their life.

I’d love to have these shops at friendship heights but they would not be able to afford the astronomical rents

Jiffy Lube and drive throughs and dollar stores in Friendship Heights? No thanks - I live in DC because I hate the suburbs but if I need to slum it can still go there.

Luckily DC has made new drive thrus illegal.

And otherwise your comment is weird - FH has 2 Starbucks and TT another and there are numerous Karate and Yoga studios.

Also the only type of housing that is available now on the DC side is "family housing" whatever that even means.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendship Heights needs to just revert back to single family or townhouse type. Like a new upscale McLean Gardens. Lord and Taylor and Mazza razed would provide lots of room for delightful family housing.

What are you talking about - you are going to put single family homes on Wisconsin Avenue or even Western? Good luck selling those!

Friendship Heights problem is it is a regional destination retail center that can't compete against other regional destination retail centers that are bigger in a retail environment where lots of stores are going out of business.

Friendship Heights has too much retail and not enough residential.

Redeveloping the Lord and Taylor site and Mazza into mixed use buildings with residential above a lesser amount of retail would bring things more into balance and as is the case in most mixed use buildings the residential would subsidize the retail giving the landlord more flexibility to lease to start-ups and small businesses.

And there are some pretty good reasons why a bunch of the businesses failed, primary among them being that even in a wealthy neighborhood there are still a finite number of people willing to pay $900 for a blender at Sur La Table or $200 for a meal for two at Range (which had 400 seats!) or spend $800 for a handbag or $1400 for a suit at Neimans and that is not even getting into the bonkers luxury stuff across the line in MD. It is important to remember that neither Chevy Chase Pavilion nor the Chevy Chase Center (where Tiffany and Giant are) used to be all upscale and when the two properties re-developed they jacked up the rents and brought in a bunch of luxury retailers and expensive restaurants almost all of which have failed - it is true that Steinmart is also in bankruptcy but they outlasted Range by several years.

The Cheesecake Factory and World Market have both been among the most successful stores in each respective chain and the Embassy Suites has long been a cash cow for the chain and despite ridiculously high rents the office buildings on both sides of the line were doing quite well pre-covid as were the 2 Starbucks within a block of each other.

Chevy Chase Pavilion in particular is really poorly managed - I've known for years the guy who runs the little newsstand in the basement and in the midst of a pandemic they are jacking his rents despite having retail that has been empty for years! They should be grateful to have anyone in that space and instead are squeezing him out. They also ran out the Washington Sport and Health that used to be in the basement and used to bring lots of people in the neighborhood in every day who would then shop at Starbucks and CVS and that space also remains empty.

I actually like the look of the Lord and Taylor and Mazza Gallarie structures there. If they could figure out how to drop two stories of three or four bedroom apartments on top of them, that would be amazing (no more one bedroom or studio apartments please). There is more super inefficient parking back there than you can imagine. There has to be a way to better use that bit of land. Again, I am NOT talking a bunch of single bedroom apartments.

I don't understand the PP saying that nobody lives on Western Ave. There are single family homes all down both the DC and MD sides of Western Ave. Drive from Mazza to Mass Ave and you will only pass SFH's. I don't think that you replace Mazza with single family homes but that comment from PP just shows that they probably don't live there or have any familiarity with the area outside of GGW or some other blog.

Redeveloping into mixed use buildings is simply a throw away comment. What is the retail? There is retail now, what are you going to replace the retail with? Why is a Karate studio under a mixed use development any more successful than the one there right now. Mixed use is simply sales talk.

I thought that the article made an interesting point when it said that there is no Business Development Group for the area. That is amazing and seems like an oversite. So with these businesses relocating for years to City Center and Bethesda, the remaining businesses never thought, 'how do we keep this thing going before we all are out of business?'

Cheesecake Factory and Maggianos have figured something out. It is funny, but living in the area, those are the only two restaurants that I have not eaten in. Sushi Ko, just down the street actually moved to the area from Glover Park (Larger location, though I might have liked the GP location better)

I agree with someone who said it earlier, it is a shame that there is not a 'regular' grocery store there. The Whole Foods is amazing and the Amazon Go will probably be nice, but sometimes my kids just want name brand stuff. Actually sometimes I just want name brand stuff.

The Pavilion was actually a hidden gem. The Embassy Suites gave the interior a hotel lobby like feel that was kind of nice. It seemed like it was thriving back in the pottery barn world market days. I think somebody was correct that Pottery Barn moved to collocate all of its names along one street in Bethesda.

Look, the area has ALL of the ingredients all of the densifiers are always screaming about. Lots of space, zoned correctly and metro access. It is on a regional seam. Everything spells success. It will be amazing to see if the city and the neighborhood come together with a robust plan to reimagine the area an not simply 'density boxes' of one bedroom apartments.

I live a block from Wisconsin Avenue in FH and know the area quite well.

No one will want to live in a single family home on Western Avenue (or Wisconsin) in the heart of a busy commercial area.

In fact several of the existing single family homes on Western have already been converted to businesses so I wonder if you've even been paying attention.

And speaking of paying attention there was a Giant in the neighborhood until 9 months ago so I'm sort of baffled that someone who lives there wouldn't know that.

And densifiers advocate for density.

What spells success is leveraging public transportation to enable people to live in "density boxed" whatever the hell that even means near Metro so you add lots of people paying taxes with a minimal impact on demand for public services.

Right now Friendship Heights is the opposite - it doesn't have much density but it has a lot of retail that attracts a lot of traffic and doesn't use public transit at the same rates so you get the ills of development with none of the benefits.

You might want to actually learn about this stuff instead of spouting ignorant nonsense based on your own baseless fears.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendship Heights needs to just revert back to single family or townhouse type. Like a new upscale McLean Gardens. Lord and Taylor and Mazza razed would provide lots of room for delightful family housing.

What are you talking about - you are going to put single family homes on Wisconsin Avenue or even Western? Good luck selling those!

Friendship Heights problem is it is a regional destination retail center that can't compete against other regional destination retail centers that are bigger in a retail environment where lots of stores are going out of business.

Friendship Heights has too much retail and not enough residential.

Redeveloping the Lord and Taylor site and Mazza into mixed use buildings with residential above a lesser amount of retail would bring things more into balance and as is the case in most mixed use buildings the residential would subsidize the retail giving the landlord more flexibility to lease to start-ups and small businesses.

And there are some pretty good reasons why a bunch of the businesses failed, primary among them being that even in a wealthy neighborhood there are still a finite number of people willing to pay $900 for a blender at Sur La Table or $200 for a meal for two at Range (which had 400 seats!) or spend $800 for a handbag or $1400 for a suit at Neimans and that is not even getting into the bonkers luxury stuff across the line in MD. It is important to remember that neither Chevy Chase Pavilion nor the Chevy Chase Center (where Tiffany and Giant are) used to be all upscale and when the two properties re-developed they jacked up the rents and brought in a bunch of luxury retailers and expensive restaurants almost all of which have failed - it is true that Steinmart is also in bankruptcy but they outlasted Range by several years.

The Cheesecake Factory and World Market have both been among the most successful stores in each respective chain and the Embassy Suites has long been a cash cow for the chain and despite ridiculously high rents the office buildings on both sides of the line were doing quite well pre-covid as were the 2 Starbucks within a block of each other.

Chevy Chase Pavilion in particular is really poorly managed - I've known for years the guy who runs the little newsstand in the basement and in the midst of a pandemic they are jacking his rents despite having retail that has been empty for years! They should be grateful to have anyone in that space and instead are squeezing him out. They also ran out the Washington Sport and Health that used to be in the basement and used to bring lots of people in the neighborhood in every day who would then shop at Starbucks and CVS and that space also remains empty.

I actually like the look of the Lord and Taylor and Mazza Gallarie structures there. If they could figure out how to drop two stories of three or four bedroom apartments on top of them, that would be amazing (no more one bedroom or studio apartments please). There is more super inefficient parking back there than you can imagine. There has to be a way to better use that bit of land. Again, I am NOT talking a bunch of single bedroom apartments.

I don't understand the PP saying that nobody lives on Western Ave. There are single family homes all down both the DC and MD sides of Western Ave. Drive from Mazza to Mass Ave and you will only pass SFH's. I don't think that you replace Mazza with single family homes but that comment from PP just shows that they probably don't live there or have any familiarity with the area outside of GGW or some other blog.

Redeveloping into mixed use buildings is simply a throw away comment. What is the retail? There is retail now, what are you going to replace the retail with? Why is a Karate studio under a mixed use development any more successful than the one there right now. Mixed use is simply sales talk.

I thought that the article made an interesting point when it said that there is no Business Development Group for the area. That is amazing and seems like an oversite. So with these businesses relocating for years to City Center and Bethesda, the remaining businesses never thought, 'how do we keep this thing going before we all are out of business?'

Cheesecake Factory and Maggianos have figured something out. It is funny, but living in the area, those are the only two restaurants that I have not eaten in. Sushi Ko, just down the street actually moved to the area from Glover Park (Larger location, though I might have liked the GP location better)

I agree with someone who said it earlier, it is a shame that there is not a 'regular' grocery store there. The Whole Foods is amazing and the Amazon Go will probably be nice, but sometimes my kids just want name brand stuff. Actually sometimes I just want name brand stuff.

The Pavilion was actually a hidden gem. The Embassy Suites gave the interior a hotel lobby like feel that was kind of nice. It seemed like it was thriving back in the pottery barn world market days. I think somebody was correct that Pottery Barn moved to collocate all of its names along one street in Bethesda.

Look, the area has ALL of the ingredients all of the densifiers are always screaming about. Lots of space, zoned correctly and metro access. It is on a regional seam. Everything spells success. It will be amazing to see if the city and the neighborhood come together with a robust plan to reimagine the area an not simply 'density boxes' of one bedroom apartments.