Anonymous
07/29/2020 20:16
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
I would never either - especially as a fed you have SO much taken out of your paycheck and frankly some of it is hard to track and figure out like FERS and all sorts of things. It would probably be less than 200 each paycheck after taxes. I'm sorry op. I agree with others though you will have to pay it back, it's just the way it is. If it makes you feel better - we do the same thing to SNAP participants when we accidentally overpay them. So impoverished people are forced to pay back government errors too, it SUCKS.
My mom was overpaid for her as benefits and they told her they would claw it back. She got around it somehow, but how are you going after a disabled, low income, 75 year old for your mistake!?
Anonymous
07/29/2020 17:20
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
But you'd notice at the end of the year when you get your W-2.
Not really. My W-2 doesn't add up to what's on the GS pay scale after you take out tax, social security, and medicare deductions, TSP, etc. And W-2 also includes income from overtime, overseas allowances (if applicable), cash performance awards, etc.
If I'm OP and my paycheck was wrong from day one, the only way I might have noticed it is if pay grade or retirement system was incorrect on my E&L.
My step increases are not by calendar year so mine rarely add up to the GS scale.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 15:31
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
As for looking at the amount in the W2 for gross wages, I sometimes was hired at an annual salary of say $100K. Then the contract ended after 10 months. When I looked at my W2, it wasn't going to be $100K. The exact amount should be $80K. However sometimes unused vacation or PTO days are paid out in a paycheck. It would be easy to miss an overpayment or underpayment.
I didn't realize once that I was filing unemployment benefits claims every week. I wasn't getting the payments. I had requested direct deposit but then the state put the payments on a debit card. How could I miss those? I was living off my savings. I was panicking. I just didn't notice the direct deposits weren't going to my bank account. When I found out, it was past the deadline to correct the error. The payments were voided.
I didn't realize once that I was filing unemployment benefits claims every week. I wasn't getting the payments. I had requested direct deposit but then the state put the payments on a debit card. How could I miss those? I was living off my savings. I was panicking. I just didn't notice the direct deposits weren't going to my bank account. When I found out, it was past the deadline to correct the error. The payments were voided.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 15:16
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
But you'd notice at the end of the year when you get your W-2.
Not really. My W-2 doesn't add up to what's on the GS pay scale after you take out tax, social security, and medicare deductions, TSP, etc. And W-2 also includes income from overtime, overseas allowances (if applicable), cash performance awards, etc.
If I'm OP and my paycheck was wrong from day one, the only way I might have noticed it is if pay grade or retirement system was incorrect on my E&L.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 15:06
Subject: Re:Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You didn't notice that your paycheck was bigger than it was supposed to be? What period of time are we talking about?
My non-government employer kept my smart benefits going for a few months while I was on maternity leave. I had to pay them back.
I can see how this would happen, especially if you don't know your tax bracket, or the exact costs of benefits.
What? You never look at your W2 and see the amount listed there in Box 1?
Anonymous
07/29/2020 14:44
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
I’ve had this happen to me at two federal agencies. At Agency A, it happened to a large class of employees. We were forced to repay in immediate paycheck deduction installments. The union fought it for years, and about four years after we’d paid, the agency returned the money.
At agency B, I discovered the error and brought it to HR. They said I had to repay. I went to an employment attorney who said federal employees are responsible for checking their pay stubs every time (check the fine print on your e&l statement, timekeeping system, or agency regs—they do say this) and thus it was unlikely the repayment would be waived. I also had to refile past years taxes.
At agency B, I discovered the error and brought it to HR. They said I had to repay. I went to an employment attorney who said federal employees are responsible for checking their pay stubs every time (check the fine print on your e&l statement, timekeeping system, or agency regs—they do say this) and thus it was unlikely the repayment would be waived. I also had to refile past years taxes.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 14:28
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
It happened to me also. Lol I was making like 10 cents over minimum wage working at a museum. They made me pay it back. Federal government. It was like a 2 week paycheck so it was tough when they paid so little in the first place.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 14:27
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Every agency (should) have a process to handle a debt waiver request. Generally there is somebody at your agency who has authority to make those decisions. Usually these involve current employees so being a separated employee I'm not sure if that will complicate things. I would immediately make a request for a waiver of this debt in writing and send it certified mail to your head of HR.
For other posters, just because a person is overpaid does not mean they have any idea it is happening. I have seen instances where HR incorrectly put a person into FERS instead of FERS-RAE or FERS-FRAE. Do you even know what those mean and what the different withholding percentages are for each program? Most people would have no clue when looking at their ELS, yet one wrong click of a button by an underpaid, undertrained HR "specialist" could leave you on the hook for thousands of dollars that you didn't even know you were being overpaid for.
This makes sense to me. Maybe she should have caught it with the W-2 forms. When you have a f/t job, kids, kids' activities, a house to maintain, the dog to walk-seriously, are you going to notice on a month to month basis that you're getting overpaid?
Anonymous
07/29/2020 14:20
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Every agency (should) have a process to handle a debt waiver request. Generally there is somebody at your agency who has authority to make those decisions. Usually these involve current employees so being a separated employee I'm not sure if that will complicate things. I would immediately make a request for a waiver of this debt in writing and send it certified mail to your head of HR.
For other posters, just because a person is overpaid does not mean they have any idea it is happening. I have seen instances where HR incorrectly put a person into FERS instead of FERS-RAE or FERS-FRAE. Do you even know what those mean and what the different withholding percentages are for each program? Most people would have no clue when looking at their ELS, yet one wrong click of a button by an underpaid, undertrained HR "specialist" could leave you on the hook for thousands of dollars that you didn't even know you were being overpaid for.
For other posters, just because a person is overpaid does not mean they have any idea it is happening. I have seen instances where HR incorrectly put a person into FERS instead of FERS-RAE or FERS-FRAE. Do you even know what those mean and what the different withholding percentages are for each program? Most people would have no clue when looking at their ELS, yet one wrong click of a button by an underpaid, undertrained HR "specialist" could leave you on the hook for thousands of dollars that you didn't even know you were being overpaid for.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 14:11
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The way I see it, and I'm not a lawyer, it was their mistake, not yours.
Contact your Congressman. Explain to his/her staff what happened. Let them negotiate on your behalf.
Years ago, the IRS tried to squeeze us for "unpaid" taxes. Yeah, sure, right. Their letter was very official and aggressive, and they wanted us to cough up taxes on undeclared income. We contacted our wonderful Congressman, and his office contacted the IRS on our behalf. A few weeks later we received a letter from the IRS stating that we didn't owe taxes.
Do not do this.
Why not?
The congressional staffer will contact the agency, the agency will respond with an explanation that’s identical to the one OP already got, and he or she will be told to follow whatever appeals process exists. That will be it. Contacting your congressman will just annoy the poor congressional staffer and the government affairs office that has to type up an answer that’s already been provided.
It is very difficult to win these overpayment cases. The agency’s position is always that the employee had an obligation to review their pay stubs and SF-50 to ensure they were correct. OP already admitted not doing that.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 13:41
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Not at a federal but a private sector job.
They paid for something an employee received (think along the lines of education) which he was supposed to pay back if he left the job before a certain date. He even signed a paper to that effect.
Well lo and behold he left immediately after the service was provided, and they went after him. He started writing them letters, asking for detailed invoices, sending links to laws saying it wasn’t lawful to request the refund, asking for discounts due to his performance reviews and the value he brought to the company etc.
At some point they just stopped responding. It’s been a couple years now and his credit isn’t affected. He was prepared to fight it in small claims court if they ever turned it over to collection.
The amount was around $12k.
I think the strategy of sending them letters and wearing them out can work. Ask them whose mistake it was; who was responsible for the oversight of the employment/hr records etc etc.
I think it will look bad if they turn it over to collection. Then you go to small claims court and it will be too costly and bad for their reputation to fight it.
It won’t work with the federal government.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 13:40
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
But you'd notice at the end of the year when you get your W-2.
They coded his salary wrong from the beginning so what op always saw was the same.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 13:37
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
I would never either - especially as a fed you have SO much taken out of your paycheck and frankly some of it is hard to track and figure out like FERS and all sorts of things. It would probably be less than 200 each paycheck after taxes. I'm sorry op. I agree with others though you will have to pay it back, it's just the way it is. If it makes you feel better - we do the same thing to SNAP participants when we accidentally overpay them. So impoverished people are forced to pay back government errors too, it SUCKS.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 13:20
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
But you'd notice at the end of the year when you get your W-2.
Anonymous
07/29/2020 13:19
Subject: Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$16k? You knew you were getting paid extra. Happy you got caught!
$16k over 3 years. That's like 5 grand a year. That's about $200 gross per pay check. I'd never notice that.
Having worked for the feds, I agree. There is all sorts of stuff taken out of your paycheck and its hard to tell. This thread is making me think I should have paid closer attention to make sure I wasnt being UNDERpaid.