Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 17:25     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
"Oh, Sally, it looks like Linda was left off the group text accidentally! Linda, we're going to see the new Bond movie on Friday. Hope you can join!"

"Hey Sally, it looks like Roberta was accidentally left off of this text chain. Roberta, are you free on the 17th for wine tasting?"

Each and every time.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 17:22     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:She's "closest" to you yet leaves you out of big group gatherings because she's playing some kind of game? Oh honey, no. Just no. She's not your friend. I left the bitchy girls behind in my 20s - cold turkey after a blunt "this is why I'm done with our friendship" conversation - and the only thing I regret is tolerating it and not calling that sh*t out sooner.

My friend group now never does this excluding one person crap, never talks about others negatively behind their backs, and it is so wonderful.


+1000
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 16:57     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
She's "closest" to you yet leaves you out of big group gatherings because she's playing some kind of game? Oh honey, no. Just no. She's not your friend. I left the bitchy girls behind in my 20s - cold turkey after a blunt "this is why I'm done with our friendship" conversation - and the only thing I regret is tolerating it and not calling that sh*t out sooner.

My friend group now never does this excluding one person crap, never talks about others negatively behind their backs, and it is so wonderful.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 16:47     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
While I’m not going to say I have any power or influence over anyone because I don’t, which is why I am coming here for advice, I have a wide circle of friends and am well liked. She’s found her way in this small group but outside of it, she has a reputation for not being very nice. Even in the group, that is her reputation. She has one woman who she is close to but aside from that most people have shared they don’t like her or are surprised at how mean she can be but group dynamics are funny. It would seem obvious people would just disengage but that doesn’t always happen. I haven’t been open with anyone that I also don’t like her and don’t see a friendship between us going forward and these women know her through me. As much as I don’t see any future of her and I being friends, I also feel icky about being public about that. Shouldn’t people come to their own decisions? I’m trying to tread carefully so it isn’t obvious to people.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 16:35     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Also to add, isn’t this sad? You would have though the middle school antics would be gone at this stage in life.


It is sad. But it's a fact of life. There are nasty people out there no matter what the demographic is. The trick is to recognize them and quietly but completely disengage from them ASAP.


Agree. Disengage ASAP. I think I’m struggling with this because I want to say or do something to make this situation go away and for her to just chill and act like a nice person. But with some people, they are who they are. I know from past conversations a few groups of friends have confronted her and ended the friendship, more or less saying she’s not a nice person. So if she hasn’t learned from previous experiences, I am not going to be the one to teach her.

So you will let this person continue to steamroll you? Others have the balls to confront and you dont?


Steamroll me.. I guess. I mean I’m not going to engage anymore. It’s not really affecting my relationships with other people even though I think she would like that to happen.
Other people, I have stood up for or just invited. My reputation is overall an inclusive person and thoughtful friend. I have had many people thank me over the years for being the first person to introduce myself and include them and invite them.. people that are new. Over the last year, there have been a few people she wanted to get out of the group. No reason, just mean girl behavior. I made an attempt to reach out to them more and was vocal about it sending the message she was the only one who didn’t like this one woman. It really was over nothing too. I ended up hosting something with this person that everyone went to, except for her. There were a few situations like that. She backed down when she saw her attempts we’re not going anywhere but I just can’t deal with this anymore. We all have families and don’t have time for this.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 16:11     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Serious question: Why are you friends with someone who is intentionally mean to others? What’s going on with your own self-esteem that you need to have someone like this as a friend?


I can’t speak for OP, but Ive been friendly with people at work and in the neighborhood, and not realized for months - in same cases years - that they were mean. Mean girls can be charming and outgoing and in my case, I didnt realize it until I was already entwined. People who are just openly mean and rude all the time are easier to spot. The ones who are nice at first and hide the ugly for awhile - harder to see and then harder to get away from.


I don't think it's that one doesn't realize, it's more that one just doesn't care to think about it too much. It's only when a situation comes up that and it's happening in the moment that you realize it.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 15:57     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Also to add, isn’t this sad? You would have though the middle school antics would be gone at this stage in life.


It is sad. But it's a fact of life. There are nasty people out there no matter what the demographic is. The trick is to recognize them and quietly but completely disengage from them ASAP.


Agree. Disengage ASAP. I think I’m struggling with this because I want to say or do something to make this situation go away and for her to just chill and act like a nice person. But with some people, they are who they are. I know from past conversations a few groups of friends have confronted her and ended the friendship, more or less saying she’s not a nice person. So if she hasn’t learned from previous experiences, I am not going to be the one to teach her.

So you will let this person continue to steamroll you? Others have the balls to confront and you dont?
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 15:52     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Also to add, isn’t this sad? You would have though the middle school antics would be gone at this stage in life.


It is sad. But it's a fact of life. There are nasty people out there no matter what the demographic is. The trick is to recognize them and quietly but completely disengage from them ASAP.


Agree. Disengage ASAP. I think I’m struggling with this because I want to say or do something to make this situation go away and for her to just chill and act like a nice person. But with some people, they are who they are. I know from past conversations a few groups of friends have confronted her and ended the friendship, more or less saying she’s not a nice person. So if she hasn’t learned from previous experiences, I am not going to be the one to teach her.


OP — stop wasting mental energy on this person right now.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 15:26     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Also to add, isn’t this sad? You would have though the middle school antics would be gone at this stage in life.


It is sad. But it's a fact of life. There are nasty people out there no matter what the demographic is. The trick is to recognize them and quietly but completely disengage from them ASAP.


Agree. Disengage ASAP. I think I’m struggling with this because I want to say or do something to make this situation go away and for her to just chill and act like a nice person. But with some people, they are who they are. I know from past conversations a few groups of friends have confronted her and ended the friendship, more or less saying she’s not a nice person. So if she hasn’t learned from previous experiences, I am not going to be the one to teach her.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 14:53     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:Also to add, isn’t this sad? You would have though the middle school antics would be gone at this stage in life.


It is sad. But it's a fact of life. There are nasty people out there no matter what the demographic is. The trick is to recognize them and quietly but completely disengage from them ASAP.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 14:07     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Also to add, isn’t this sad? You would have though the middle school antics would be gone at this stage in life.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 14:05     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, there is not usually a lot you can do by confronting this. I mean, you might get lucky, but it gets messy quickly. People are not going to react in straightforward and uncomplicated ways.

I think one feasible option is to cultivate the relationships you care about within this group individually, outside of the group -- so, check in on email or video with specific friends, send a physical letter or something that shows you are thinking of them (a book you discussed that they wanted to read, or nice chocolates to perk up their spirits, etc). Make those interactions about the positive things you share and love, not the negativity in the group. look forward, not back, and strengthen bonds.

If you are with the group or a group conversation and you see someone being excluded, say something about it once -- gently, firmly -- and then decide whether to continue with that plan or interaction, or drop out. "Hey, I really think Larla would like to come, and I don't want to shut her out of our get-togethers." Then drop it. Decide if you still want to go, whether or not your comment changes anything. but keep building and strengthening the good relationships you have.

There doesn't have to be a knockout showdown. This doesn't have to be Big Drama. You can decide what you want and what you feel good about, and keep that, and let the rest fall away. You can't argue other people inti liking or valuing you, or really anyone, but you can lead by example and protect your own boundaries.


+1. A recent Carolyn Hax advice had the quote “Plans that involve changing someone else’s behavior are nonstarter since you can only change your own”. I had a friend like that in college that you would feel special because in the time of everyone being busy she always seemed to make time. She was the one that planned everything, always offered to drive, always reached out to find out what you were doing. Over time I realized being the glue was about having social currency and being able to control the narrative not that she cared about me personally. She would make it seem like everyone was coming to her, telling her everything so it not only reinforced that she was the center of the group making her the one you went to when you wanted to plan a group activity , you would find out from her how other people in the group were doing when you didn’t get to see them. While this may not sound bad she would also lie about everything but it wasn’t obvious at first. Confronting her changed nothing in her behavior and if anything it became this big thing within the group of how to handle the situation because everyone had different feeling depending on their personality and how hurt they felt by her actions. At the end of the day, it was about the individual relationships within the people in the group and efforts the individuals made to connect and keep up with each other one on one. The big group hangouts subsided but the close friendships with the different individual relationships have continued.


That’s. This is really reassuring. I have felt for months now I haha do make a decision on what to do but it seems like there is no way to make the light bulb go off with her. This behavior she is doing is obviously not unique, as many are sharing similar situations with people like this. For months now, I was actually handling it very well by not reacting or doing anything. She has asked and told others she hopes we are able to be friends like we used to be again at some point but thank you, to those who have helped me realize what a bad idea this is. She has shown who she is. Life is too short to let someone in who at the end of the day I simply cannot trust, based on many many things. The above is helpful in seeing that I can connect in my individual friendships and don’t let her actions make me act differently than I normally would. It’s not my style to gossip or bad mouth people and I’m not going to start now even if I want to clear the air on some things, I won’t. It’s not a good look for me and as others have said, people will realize in due time and many already do realize but don’t quite know what to make of it.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 13:24     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:OP, there is not usually a lot you can do by confronting this. I mean, you might get lucky, but it gets messy quickly. People are not going to react in straightforward and uncomplicated ways.

I think one feasible option is to cultivate the relationships you care about within this group individually, outside of the group -- so, check in on email or video with specific friends, send a physical letter or something that shows you are thinking of them (a book you discussed that they wanted to read, or nice chocolates to perk up their spirits, etc). Make those interactions about the positive things you share and love, not the negativity in the group. look forward, not back, and strengthen bonds.

If you are with the group or a group conversation and you see someone being excluded, say something about it once -- gently, firmly -- and then decide whether to continue with that plan or interaction, or drop out. "Hey, I really think Larla would like to come, and I don't want to shut her out of our get-togethers." Then drop it. Decide if you still want to go, whether or not your comment changes anything. but keep building and strengthening the good relationships you have.

There doesn't have to be a knockout showdown. This doesn't have to be Big Drama. You can decide what you want and what you feel good about, and keep that, and let the rest fall away. You can't argue other people inti liking or valuing you, or really anyone, but you can lead by example and protect your own boundaries.


+1. A recent Carolyn Hax advice had the quote “Plans that involve changing someone else’s behavior are nonstarter since you can only change your own”. I had a friend like that in college that you would feel special because in the time of everyone being busy she always seemed to make time. She was the one that planned everything, always offered to drive, always reached out to find out what you were doing. Over time I realized being the glue was about having social currency and being able to control the narrative not that she cared about me personally. She would make it seem like everyone was coming to her, telling her everything so it not only reinforced that she was the center of the group making her the one you went to when you wanted to plan a group activity , you would find out from her how other people in the group were doing when you didn’t get to see them. While this may not sound bad she would also lie about everything but it wasn’t obvious at first. Confronting her changed nothing in her behavior and if anything it became this big thing within the group of how to handle the situation because everyone had different feeling depending on their personality and how hurt they felt by her actions. At the end of the day, it was about the individual relationships within the people in the group and efforts the individuals made to connect and keep up with each other one on one. The big group hangouts subsided but the close friendships with the different individual relationships have continued.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 13:02     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You have to find a way to make the "queen bee" friend useful and not put judgements on her actions. My "queen bee" friend basically excommunicated one in our group because of a fight and in my opinion she definitely was the one that was in the wrong, but I kept that to myself and I stayed out of the fight.

Sound like we are in high school. AMR?



What was the fight over?
I’m treading carefully because I don’t want to excommunicate anyone. I think for her, she just needs to be the planner and one organizing everything and gets threatened if anyone else takes on that role. Which is fine, but be civil and don’t try to make every social outing an opportunity to decide who you want to exclude. I can’t think of a situation where she hasn’t done this. I’m not talking about smaller outings of 2-3 people. I mean she hand picks one person to exclude,announces why and talks about it. . It’s not necessary. We all get along great and have always been a kind, supportive group of friends.


So, I’m curious, what are some of the reasons she gives for excluding that one person?


I am having a lot of trouble imagining a grown woman acting like this too. Does she do the equivalent of a middle school girl and announce she's not inviting Betty Lou to her super cool birthday sleepover party because Betty Lou talked to a boy she likes? It just sounds completely bizarre to me.


Yah, she actually does do the adult equivalent of this. And anytime we do smaller groups things with 2-3 people she will smile and ask multiple times “Do you think Jen will be mad if she finds out we didn’t invite her?” Just weird behavior altogether.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2020 12:59     Subject: Good friend in group always social engineering?
Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, what you are dealing with here is a parasitic human. She saw a good healthy target to feed off of (happy, outgoing you) and knew she could easily use you and then co-opt your friends.

She cares nothing for you. She cares nothing for your friends. People are nothing more than feeding opportunities for her. This is evidenced by her need to control and direct people for her own needs.

I was in a situation like this many years ago. I started distancing myself from the whole group and only reached out to do one-on-one with others.

Eventually, it wound up being just me and one other woman who remained friends. The interesting thing is this woman was the only one who demonstrated the kind of personality, integrity and qualities that I would really want in a friend. So she was golden. She also saw through the parasite. We left the rest of them to their feeding frenzy and never looked back.


Yah exactly that and others pick up on it.. most of our mutual friends have said you know how she is. The general feeling about her is we cannot get rid of her bc she has has inserted herself but everyone thinks she’s is awkward and no one feels particularly close to her. She just seems hungry for some weird status of being “popular”.. to who I don’t know? We aren’t in HS. But she talks about it a lot, announcing to multiple people that 135 people are coming to her child’s birthday. All super weird at our age. To complicate things further, I was asked to take a community role that she has said for years she wants to do at some point. I suspect this will cause her to be more aggressive towards me. I really don’t want to cause drama with her so I have for the most part done nothing. I mean is there a diplomat way to ask her to cut it out or should I just continue what I’m doing and see my friends. There is zero drama in any of my other friendships in the group. We still talk regularly and I see many one on one before this quarantine but have avoided planning group stuff for the obvious reasons.