Anonymous
04/05/2020 10:18
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely not. I've worked 20 years in the type of work you're considering. When you call it a dream job, realize that is a correct term- your dream, not your reality.
It can be enormously interesting and you certainly can be empowered to make a significant difference. However it is not worth the pay cut you're considering. You also believe your relative age is an advantage, and you are wrong. While it won't hurt you, it also won't weigh in your favor. You'll be facing genuine competition from 23 year olds. For example, I made 15 by age 30, and not because there was a lack of older competition.
I think more broadly, you have a good job, good benefits, good boss- you are not promised that. Federal compensation degrades every year. Ask them how much you'll be paying into the pension plan. Unless you're on an unusual pay plan, you'll get sticker shock. Example- as someone who has been in and grandfather into the old system, I pay about $50 every 2 weeks. A new person making the same amount pays $600 every 2 weeks. That's just for the pension- you'll also need to fund your TSP. Oh, and check out the premiums on health insurance.
As a private sector person, you're probably also used to things like having coffee at the office, at a minimum. Literally nothing is free in the government. You will pay all your own coffee and if the water is unsuitable in your building (ours is often brown) you'll need to bring your own water. My agency won't even pay for dishsoap in the breakroom to wash up after lunch- that's an item for "personal use" so you'll pay for that too.
And unlike the private sector where you can wear relatively inexpensive and comfortable clothing like jeans and a sweater, you'll likely need suits for daily wear, and they will need to be dry cleaned.
And most places make you pay for parking.
By the time you've paid into your pension, tsp, health care, etc and the recurring expenses of parking, buying jackets and laundering them, etc, you'll see very little of that 87k.
Also, you can do very little work from home in this field. You can't even have your cell phone with you most of the day. You're literally lucky to see a window or sunlight in some cases.
This. I interviewed for those types of dream jobs in my mid-30s and realized that the lifestyle changes would be too much for me and my family to handle.
Anonymous
04/05/2020 09:24
Subject: Re:Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Sorry for hijacking this thread but is related to the topic.
Is it worth going from $190k+ job to accept a GS-14 position? I currently have 26 days for annual leave, I would need to see if the agency would start me off at 8 hrs per pay period accrual rate. Worth the negotiation to at least see if I could start at Step 10 and 8 hour leave accrual? My current company has both 401k and pension benefits so other benefits are not a decision factor.
Worth it to even negotiate with HR?
Yes for GS-14 step 10, it is totally worth it. The job security, pension and good 401K plan is worth extra 30-40K
Anonymous
04/04/2020 17:37
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely not. I've worked 20 years in the type of work you're considering. When you call it a dream job, realize that is a correct term- your dream, not your reality.
It can be enormously interesting and you certainly can be empowered to make a significant difference. However it is not worth the pay cut you're considering. You also believe your relative age is an advantage, and you are wrong. While it won't hurt you, it also won't weigh in your favor. You'll be facing genuine competition from 23 year olds. For example, I made 15 by age 30, and not because there was a lack of older competition.
I think more broadly, you have a good job, good benefits, good boss- you are not promised that. Federal compensation degrades every year. Ask them how much you'll be paying into the pension plan. Unless you're on an unusual pay plan, you'll get sticker shock. Example- as someone who has been in and grandfather into the old system, I pay about $50 every 2 weeks. A new person making the same amount pays $600 every 2 weeks. That's just for the pension- you'll also need to fund your TSP. Oh, and check out the premiums on health insurance.
As a private sector person, you're probably also used to things like having coffee at the office, at a minimum. Literally nothing is free in the government. You will pay all your own coffee and if the water is unsuitable in your building (ours is often brown) you'll need to bring your own water. My agency won't even pay for dishsoap in the breakroom to wash up after lunch- that's an item for "personal use" so you'll pay for that too.
And unlike the private sector where you can wear relatively inexpensive and comfortable clothing like jeans and a sweater, you'll likely need suits for daily wear, and they will need to be dry cleaned.
And most places make you pay for parking.
By the time you've paid into your pension, tsp, health care, etc and the recurring expenses of parking, buying jackets and laundering them, etc, you'll see very little of that 87k.
Also, you can do very little work from home in this field. You can't even have your cell phone with you most of the day. You're literally lucky to see a window or sunlight in some cases.
OP again - just noticed this comment. Thanks for your insights and perspective - really appreciate it. I do think that with a little more time in my current position + some luck I will be competitive for higher grade government positions than this one, so I may stay the course, especially given my satisfaction with most aspects of my current job (other than being a contractor just sucks for many reasons). I definitely hear you on competing with 23 year-olds - have worked long and hard (and stuck it through some truly distasteful work situations) to get to where I am now - not interested in a repeat.
A couple comments - as a gov contractor I am subject to the same stuff you mentioned - I wear a dry cleaned suit and tie to work every day, no free coffee, no free water, not much of a Christmas party, no kitchen at work, cramped cubicles, no pension, high premiums for health care - and all that minus the respect, job security, and flexibility of the government folks (plus constant pressure to produce revenue for the company on nights and weekends on top of serving the client).
Anonymous
04/04/2020 17:27
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:So let's assume you work for a USAID/INL/PRM-type contractor and got into either State or USAID Foreign Service.
FSOs often have to spend very little money out of pocket for day to day life and end up being able to buy real estate investment properties and build significant savings, while counting down to a guaranteed pension. It's a really good deal. That said, they are an entitled bunch who learn how to nickel and dime the government for everything (within regulations).
Your contractor employer may offer similar benefits at first glance, but without the security and pension.
FSOs are a smart bunch in general but within a strictly defined system.
I would join USAID Foreign Service before I'd join State if I weren't sure if I wanted to commit to a whole career. USAID FSOs move up more quickly and get more independent responsibility much earlier than State FSOs. A USAID FSO may be leading an office in his second tour, or would be the deputy for the office. My sense is it takes longer in State -- many are reporting officers for several tours.
At State, of course you'd have to do a Consular tour adjudicating visas for a couple years -- fine if you're in it long term, but I bummer if you want to try out Foreign Service for a tour first.
Your spouse will be unemployed for stretches unless she's experienced and flexible enough to be put on proposals and project launches, etc. But she'd also be unemployed if OP started doing overseas tours with a contractor.
FS is relatively lucrative (for a middle class job) and you could always commit to five years and it probably won't hurt your chances of going back to contractor work (especially if you go into USAID FS).
OP here again, thanks for the great insights. My impression of FSOs (at least at State) nearly perfectly mirrors yours. Interesting that you seem to feel USAID FSOs have higher morale than those at State.
Anonymous wrote:You need to sit down with your partner and discuss this. I have seen far too many FS or other agency trailing spouses end up embittered and resentful for their careers stalling. The government does not owe your partner a job, contrary to what many spouses think. Not all telework setups function properly for trailing spouses. Your partner might only be able to secure an administrative job at the embassy. Nurses and teachers always seem to do okay IME.
Then again, many spouses like working at the Embassy so they can keep an eye on their partners. Seriously.
Thanks for the advice. Definitely am very concerned about the partner job aspect of it. Both of us come from blue collar backgrounds are finally making it in DC - no interest in blowing all that up. Would move carefully and deliberately.
Anonymous
03/31/2020 21:52
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Absolutely not. I've worked 20 years in the type of work you're considering. When you call it a dream job, realize that is a correct term- your dream, not your reality.
It can be enormously interesting and you certainly can be empowered to make a significant difference. However it is not worth the pay cut you're considering. You also believe your relative age is an advantage, and you are wrong. While it won't hurt you, it also won't weigh in your favor. You'll be facing genuine competition from 23 year olds. For example, I made 15 by age 30, and not because there was a lack of older competition.
I think more broadly, you have a good job, good benefits, good boss- you are not promised that. Federal compensation degrades every year. Ask them how much you'll be paying into the pension plan. Unless you're on an unusual pay plan, you'll get sticker shock. Example- as someone who has been in and grandfather into the old system, I pay about $50 every 2 weeks. A new person making the same amount pays $600 every 2 weeks. That's just for the pension- you'll also need to fund your TSP. Oh, and check out the premiums on health insurance.
As a private sector person, you're probably also used to things like having coffee at the office, at a minimum. Literally nothing is free in the government. You will pay all your own coffee and if the water is unsuitable in your building (ours is often brown) you'll need to bring your own water. My agency won't even pay for dishsoap in the breakroom to wash up after lunch- that's an item for "personal use" so you'll pay for that too.
And unlike the private sector where you can wear relatively inexpensive and comfortable clothing like jeans and a sweater, you'll likely need suits for daily wear, and they will need to be dry cleaned.
And most places make you pay for parking.
By the time you've paid into your pension, tsp, health care, etc and the recurring expenses of parking, buying jackets and laundering them, etc, you'll see very little of that 87k.
Also, you can do very little work from home in this field. You can't even have your cell phone with you most of the day. You're literally lucky to see a window or sunlight in some cases.
It can be enormously interesting and you certainly can be empowered to make a significant difference. However it is not worth the pay cut you're considering. You also believe your relative age is an advantage, and you are wrong. While it won't hurt you, it also won't weigh in your favor. You'll be facing genuine competition from 23 year olds. For example, I made 15 by age 30, and not because there was a lack of older competition.
I think more broadly, you have a good job, good benefits, good boss- you are not promised that. Federal compensation degrades every year. Ask them how much you'll be paying into the pension plan. Unless you're on an unusual pay plan, you'll get sticker shock. Example- as someone who has been in and grandfather into the old system, I pay about $50 every 2 weeks. A new person making the same amount pays $600 every 2 weeks. That's just for the pension- you'll also need to fund your TSP. Oh, and check out the premiums on health insurance.
As a private sector person, you're probably also used to things like having coffee at the office, at a minimum. Literally nothing is free in the government. You will pay all your own coffee and if the water is unsuitable in your building (ours is often brown) you'll need to bring your own water. My agency won't even pay for dishsoap in the breakroom to wash up after lunch- that's an item for "personal use" so you'll pay for that too.
And unlike the private sector where you can wear relatively inexpensive and comfortable clothing like jeans and a sweater, you'll likely need suits for daily wear, and they will need to be dry cleaned.
And most places make you pay for parking.
By the time you've paid into your pension, tsp, health care, etc and the recurring expenses of parking, buying jackets and laundering them, etc, you'll see very little of that 87k.
Also, you can do very little work from home in this field. You can't even have your cell phone with you most of the day. You're literally lucky to see a window or sunlight in some cases.
Anonymous
03/31/2020 18:15
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Yes. Stability, OP. Stability. No brainer.
Anonymous
03/31/2020 17:05
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
I am a Fed and am appreciating my job security right about now (compared to the private sector).
Anonymous
03/31/2020 16:35
Subject: Re:Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Sorry for hijacking this thread but is related to the topic.
Is it worth going from $190k+ job to accept a GS-14 position? I currently have 26 days for annual leave, I would need to see if the agency would start me off at 8 hrs per pay period accrual rate. Worth the negotiation to at least see if I could start at Step 10 and 8 hour leave accrual? My current company has both 401k and pension benefits so other benefits are not a decision factor.
Worth it to even negotiate with HR?
Is it worth going from $190k+ job to accept a GS-14 position? I currently have 26 days for annual leave, I would need to see if the agency would start me off at 8 hrs per pay period accrual rate. Worth the negotiation to at least see if I could start at Step 10 and 8 hour leave accrual? My current company has both 401k and pension benefits so other benefits are not a decision factor.
Worth it to even negotiate with HR?
Anonymous
03/29/2020 08:26
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Here’s a story, OP.
My STBX made this choice about 6 years ago.
He took a pay cut from his finance job and came in as a 10. I quit my job to come with him to DC and took me a while to be re-established in a new career. It took him 5 years to get to 13 and it seems that promotions in his agency do not come very quickly in general. I’m a Fed now too at a completely different agency and even though I was a GS-7 two years ago, at my agency and in my current trajectory it is quite possible that I will be a 14 before he is. He has a bachelor’s and is not Type A. YMMV.
However, in those 5 years, he also took home substantial amounts in extra language pay, Travel per diems, and war zone premiums.
We’re doing pretty well now, but have also spent a lot of time apart and are now divorcing for reasons unrelated to his employment. I know other couples employed at his agency who do very well if they are able to travel together and as some PPs have mentioned, have no housing costs while posted, which is huge. But there really are no guarantees, and right now because of Covid-19 these things are getting canceled left and right.
My STBX made this choice about 6 years ago.
He took a pay cut from his finance job and came in as a 10. I quit my job to come with him to DC and took me a while to be re-established in a new career. It took him 5 years to get to 13 and it seems that promotions in his agency do not come very quickly in general. I’m a Fed now too at a completely different agency and even though I was a GS-7 two years ago, at my agency and in my current trajectory it is quite possible that I will be a 14 before he is. He has a bachelor’s and is not Type A. YMMV.
However, in those 5 years, he also took home substantial amounts in extra language pay, Travel per diems, and war zone premiums.
We’re doing pretty well now, but have also spent a lot of time apart and are now divorcing for reasons unrelated to his employment. I know other couples employed at his agency who do very well if they are able to travel together and as some PPs have mentioned, have no housing costs while posted, which is huge. But there really are no guarantees, and right now because of Covid-19 these things are getting canceled left and right.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 07:58
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you’re going to travel and have you live abroad, you will do it early and the government will pick up your expenses - housing, etc. After a few years your new salary will have moved up and if you are smart, you will have banked much of your earlier salary. It’s apples and oranges. I took a job like that and in my low earning years I lived on the government’s dime. Came home and had a downpayment saved.
OP here - yep, I'm very aware of the government benefits while living abroad. I do have those sorts of options in my current job as well but of course huge prestige difference in being a contractor vs. 'real' government employee.
Definitely struggling with this choice as this offer was a life-long dream of mine but the pay cut just feels insulting.
Is it just you? Do you have a significant other? Kids?
If it’s a lifelong dream, negotiate the offer. Build that bridge of what you need and what the employer needs. I wouldn’t get hung up on the numbers per se.
Just me and my partner but she has a very legit career and there is no way in hell I would ask her to be a "trailing spouse" and take some bullshit job abroad or permanently sacrifice her career. So would have to figure that one out.
Excuse me, if you don't want her to be a trailing spouse, then this decision is not entirely yours. Our responses were based on you only. If the spouse has to give up her career, haha, good luck with that. I have had a FSO get assigned to a country where the spouse first promised to follow, but was unable to find a job after all. Major relationship trouble as you can imagine.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 07:58
Subject: Re:Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went from $79k to $161k in 5 years in govt. I took a cut to get my foot in the door. It might be worth it!
I also went up about $80k in around 5 years, but impression is that such a rapid increase is unusual.
Both cases above are exceptions. Study the GS pay scale. We go up only 1 step each year. After a while, we go up 1 step only every 2 years.
This resulted in me going up about $25k in 5 years. With an advanced degree.
Started as an GS-11 in 2013 (pay cut), then GS-13, then GS14 in 2017. It is very possible to rise quickly if you have the background experience.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 07:56
Subject: Re:Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went from $79k to $161k in 5 years in govt. I took a cut to get my foot in the door. It might be worth it!
I also went up about $80k in around 5 years, but impression is that such a rapid increase is unusual.
Both cases above are exceptions. Study the GS pay scale. We go up only 1 step each year. After a while, we go up 1 step only every 2 years.
This resulted in me going up about $25k in 5 years. With an advanced degree.
That assumes no promotions. It also assumes someone is on the GS scale. But, I agree that quick of a rise is not common.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 07:55
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Negotiate. This is an offer.
OP should try and she may get a bit more, but there isn’t usually a whole lot of room with government offers.
The step increases can bump it up $5-$10k
Don’t forget to ask for leave credit for past job experience. Will make the difference between 4 hrs a pay period and 6 or 8 hrs per paid period.
I say go for it.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 07:54
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do your write proposals OP? Is your name in the proposals as key personnel?
Yes to both. I'm at/near the point in contracting where I'm a little underpaid - capable of getting offers $160k+ now, but am happy with my current project, team, and benefits so have turned those offers down. Overall though I hate being a contractor and being so disposable.
So then I don't get what you're doing? You're not chasing more money as a contractor which you don't like
Anonymous
03/29/2020 07:53
Subject: Should I take a big pay cut for a government job offer?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Negotiate. This is an offer.
OP should try and she may get a bit more, but there isn’t usually a whole lot of room with government offers.
+1
It's pretty fixed