Anonymous
03/07/2020 14:21
Subject: Re:15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My boys (now young adults) always hold the doors open for women. They’ll also offer their seats, stand when a woman approaches them, etc. It has nothing to do with women not being capable of doing so. It’s simply a demonstration of respect. They do the same for older people.
+1
My husband holds the door open for just about everyone. So does my brother. I do too -- I'm a woman but ES taught to hold doors, open car doors, offer to carry packages etc. for elderly people, female or male. Because...manners. And extra attention to the elderly. Or guests. Or just friends.
The angry "women don't need doors held for them!" folks seem threatened and insulted by those who would offer respect. I guess it's seen as disrespectful or infantilizing. It's not coming from that place at all -- unless you choose to put that interpretation on it. But that's coming from those PPs, not from the door-openers.
Female here. I really don't understand why certain women have to be so angry and defensive about common decency. I was taught to be considerate of others, so if I am coming to a door and walk through first, I will hold it for the person behind me. I have many times held the door and allowed people to go first--out of a sense of trying to make the world a tiny bit better. (And yes, I try to do a lot to help the world in much bigger ways, but that isn't the point of this thread.)
I have also seen angry people glowering, walking through the busy streets, and then so often they see my tiny, super cute little dog. And it's like the person has no idea anyone is watching, and for maybe 15 seconds you see the person smile, then right back to the glower. I believe people do look for tiny examples of kindness in every day life. To hold a door is just one freaking example.
No one in this thread is upset at all about common decency. Did you read the thread? It isn't about everyone helping each other out or being considerate of others. Approaching a door and holding it open for the person behind you is just a common courtesy and I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I might hold the door for the man behind me who holds it for the child behind him who holds it for the teen behind her who holds it for the woman behind him. That is common courtesy.
I did read the entire thread, and while there are some people who are fine with and appreciate common decency, there were others (maybe the same person justifying her point??) that equate any male opening a door for a female to patriarchal condescension. I will also add, that my DH is very tall and flies a lot. He has always helped anyone who needs it to get their bags in the overhead bin when they are having trouble. Twice now he has been called out by women simply for offering to help, and in one case the flight attendant had to come over to help because the woman truly couldn't get it up over her head.
I think maybe it is my post you are referring to and I have never said (nor has any poster as I just reread the thread) that any male opening a door for a female is patriarchal condescension. The issue at hand is opening a CAR door for someone only because they are female. Not as common courtesy that you would do for anyone. Not someone in need of help. Helping someone who needs help is fine. If your DH offers to help both men and women struggling with luggage - great, that is common courtesy. Assuming a woman will need a man's help with her bag just because she is female is sexist. If you see anyone in trouble, help them out.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 14:16
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weird. Women / Girls don't need a car door opened for them. It is very patriarchal and not someone people do now. Girls can open their own car doors believe it or not!
Why can’t people be nice without it being turned into a sexist act of disrespect.
Don't worry. Men don't like the poster you're addressing. I guarantee it.
Not the pp but why should the pp care if men like her? We aren't put on this planet solely to please men. She has every right to Express her opinion.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 14:13
Subject: Re:15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My boys (now young adults) always hold the doors open for women. They’ll also offer their seats, stand when a woman approaches them, etc. It has nothing to do with women not being capable of doing so. It’s simply a demonstration of respect. They do the same for older people.
+1
My husband holds the door open for just about everyone. So does my brother. I do too -- I'm a woman but ES taught to hold doors, open car doors, offer to carry packages etc. for elderly people, female or male. Because...manners. And extra attention to the elderly. Or guests. Or just friends.
The angry "women don't need doors held for them!" folks seem threatened and insulted by those who would offer respect. I guess it's seen as disrespectful or infantilizing. It's not coming from that place at all -- unless you choose to put that interpretation on it. But that's coming from those PPs, not from the door-openers.
Respect is something that is mutual. It is not respect when it is something that that is only one way and that perpetuates the stereotype that women are weak, helpless and need a man for basic tasks. If I am entering a door, I always look behind and hold it for man, woman, or child. As a woman I am perfectly fine with a man, woman or child holding open a door for me. I am not okay with my daughter standing by a car waiting for a boy to come open her door or a boy rushing around to open her car door for her. That isn't respect unless she is also going to get out and run around and open his door.
Women will never be seen as equals or move up into senior positions as long as we treat them so differently than boys. Manners are something that you should teach all your children, male and female and that apply to everyone. Respect goes both ways, both boys and girls are deserving of respect and should treat others with respect. As soon as you make it one directional and this is just something you teach boys to do...it is sexist.
Teach your daughters that they are as capable as men.
-1
I agree. It’s misogynistic for a man to hold a door open for a woman or girl as part of a dating ritual. This is a problem with a lot of women. They want all the benefits of sexist system without any of the obstacles or hindrance. These things can not be separated.
Np. Please list all the benefits women enjoy with our sexist society! Can't wait to hear them. I may have one or two ideas but am waiting for you to tell us all.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 13:26
Subject: Re:15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My boys (now young adults) always hold the doors open for women. They’ll also offer their seats, stand when a woman approaches them, etc. It has nothing to do with women not being capable of doing so. It’s simply a demonstration of respect. They do the same for older people.
+1
My husband holds the door open for just about everyone. So does my brother. I do too -- I'm a woman but ES taught to hold doors, open car doors, offer to carry packages etc. for elderly people, female or male. Because...manners. And extra attention to the elderly. Or guests. Or just friends.
The angry "women don't need doors held for them!" folks seem threatened and insulted by those who would offer respect. I guess it's seen as disrespectful or infantilizing. It's not coming from that place at all -- unless you choose to put that interpretation on it. But that's coming from those PPs, not from the door-openers.
Respect is something that is mutual. It is not respect when it is something that that is only one way and that perpetuates the stereotype that women are weak, helpless and need a man for basic tasks. If I am entering a door, I always look behind and hold it for man, woman, or child. As a woman I am perfectly fine with a man, woman or child holding open a door for me. I am not okay with my daughter standing by a car waiting for a boy to come open her door or a boy rushing around to open her car door for her. That isn't respect unless she is also going to get out and run around and open his door.
Women will never be seen as equals or move up into senior positions as long as we treat them so differently than boys. Manners are something that you should teach all your children, male and female and that apply to everyone. Respect goes both ways, both boys and girls are deserving of respect and should treat others with respect. As soon as you make it one directional and this is just something you teach boys to do...it is sexist.
Teach your daughters that they are as capable as men.
Agreed, great post.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 13:24
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
OP was bragging about it -- and was not bragging about common decency
Op liked a behavior that many of us wish would go away. It
reflects chauvinism
Op isn't so dumb that she doesn't realize this. She just wants to stir the pot
Op liked a behavior that many of us wish would go away. It
reflects chauvinism
Op isn't so dumb that she doesn't realize this. She just wants to stir the pot
Anonymous
03/07/2020 11:49
Subject: Re:15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My boys (now young adults) always hold the doors open for women. They’ll also offer their seats, stand when a woman approaches them, etc. It has nothing to do with women not being capable of doing so. It’s simply a demonstration of respect. They do the same for older people.
+1
My husband holds the door open for just about everyone. So does my brother. I do too -- I'm a woman but ES taught to hold doors, open car doors, offer to carry packages etc. for elderly people, female or male. Because...manners. And extra attention to the elderly. Or guests. Or just friends.
The angry "women don't need doors held for them!" folks seem threatened and insulted by those who would offer respect. I guess it's seen as disrespectful or infantilizing. It's not coming from that place at all -- unless you choose to put that interpretation on it. But that's coming from those PPs, not from the door-openers.
Female here. I really don't understand why certain women have to be so angry and defensive about common decency. I was taught to be considerate of others, so if I am coming to a door and walk through first, I will hold it for the person behind me. I have many times held the door and allowed people to go first--out of a sense of trying to make the world a tiny bit better. (And yes, I try to do a lot to help the world in much bigger ways, but that isn't the point of this thread.)
I have also seen angry people glowering, walking through the busy streets, and then so often they see my tiny, super cute little dog. And it's like the person has no idea anyone is watching, and for maybe 15 seconds you see the person smile, then right back to the glower. I believe people do look for tiny examples of kindness in every day life. To hold a door is just one freaking example.
No one in this thread is upset at all about common decency. Did you read the thread? It isn't about everyone helping each other out or being considerate of others. Approaching a door and holding it open for the person behind you is just a common courtesy and I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I might hold the door for the man behind me who holds it for the child behind him who holds it for the teen behind her who holds it for the woman behind him. That is common courtesy.
I did read the entire thread, and while there are some people who are fine with and appreciate common decency, there were others (maybe the same person justifying her point??) that equate any male opening a door for a female to patriarchal condescension. I will also add, that my DH is very tall and flies a lot. He has always helped anyone who needs it to get their bags in the overhead bin when they are having trouble. Twice now he has been called out by women simply for offering to help, and in one case the flight attendant had to come over to help because the woman truly couldn't get it up over her head.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 11:38
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weird. Women / Girls don't need a car door opened for them. It is very patriarchal and not someone people do now. Girls can open their own car doors believe it or not!
+1
I'd be turned off by a man who did this.
I would see it as a sign of kindness, consideration and respect.
+1
Unless one is looking to be offended, of course.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 11:34
Subject: Re:15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My boys (now young adults) always hold the doors open for women. They’ll also offer their seats, stand when a woman approaches them, etc. It has nothing to do with women not being capable of doing so. It’s simply a demonstration of respect. They do the same for older people.
+1
My husband holds the door open for just about everyone. So does my brother. I do too -- I'm a woman but ES taught to hold doors, open car doors, offer to carry packages etc. for elderly people, female or male. Because...manners. And extra attention to the elderly. Or guests. Or just friends.
The angry "women don't need doors held for them!" folks seem threatened and insulted by those who would offer respect. I guess it's seen as disrespectful or infantilizing. It's not coming from that place at all -- unless you choose to put that interpretation on it. But that's coming from those PPs, not from the door-openers.
Female here. I really don't understand why certain women have to be so angry and defensive about common decency. I was taught to be considerate of others, so if I am coming to a door and walk through first, I will hold it for the person behind me. I have many times held the door and allowed people to go first--out of a sense of trying to make the world a tiny bit better. (And yes, I try to do a lot to help the world in much bigger ways, but that isn't the point of this thread.)
I have also seen angry people glowering, walking through the busy streets, and then so often they see my tiny, super cute little dog. And it's like the person has no idea anyone is watching, and for maybe 15 seconds you see the person smile, then right back to the glower. I believe people do look for tiny examples of kindness in every day life. To hold a door is just one freaking example.
No one in this thread is upset at all about common decency. Did you read the thread? It isn't about everyone helping each other out or being considerate of others. Approaching a door and holding it open for the person behind you is just a common courtesy and I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I might hold the door for the man behind me who holds it for the child behind him who holds it for the teen behind her who holds it for the woman behind him. That is common courtesy.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 11:16
Subject: Re:15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My boys (now young adults) always hold the doors open for women. They’ll also offer their seats, stand when a woman approaches them, etc. It has nothing to do with women not being capable of doing so. It’s simply a demonstration of respect. They do the same for older people.
+1
My husband holds the door open for just about everyone. So does my brother. I do too -- I'm a woman but ES taught to hold doors, open car doors, offer to carry packages etc. for elderly people, female or male. Because...manners. And extra attention to the elderly. Or guests. Or just friends.
The angry "women don't need doors held for them!" folks seem threatened and insulted by those who would offer respect. I guess it's seen as disrespectful or infantilizing. It's not coming from that place at all -- unless you choose to put that interpretation on it. But that's coming from those PPs, not from the door-openers.
Female here. I really don't understand why certain women have to be so angry and defensive about common decency. I was taught to be considerate of others, so if I am coming to a door and walk through first, I will hold it for the person behind me. I have many times held the door and allowed people to go first--out of a sense of trying to make the world a tiny bit better. (And yes, I try to do a lot to help the world in much bigger ways, but that isn't the point of this thread.)
I have also seen angry people glowering, walking through the busy streets, and then so often they see my tiny, super cute little dog. And it's like the person has no idea anyone is watching, and for maybe 15 seconds you see the person smile, then right back to the glower. I believe people do look for tiny examples of kindness in every day life. To hold a door is just one freaking example.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 11:01
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
I totally forgot that my DH used to do this for me, for quite a while! A couple years, maybe! You never see this now, maybe mostly because of electric door locks? (He used to have a car you had to unlock manually-- the 90s!)
I found it endearing then, but it's definitely a relic, especially when only applied to women. DH was born in 1969 and raised by parents born in the 30s.
I found it endearing then, but it's definitely a relic, especially when only applied to women. DH was born in 1969 and raised by parents born in the 30s.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 10:41
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weird. Women / Girls don't need a car door opened for them. It is very patriarchal and not someone people do now. Girls can open their own car doors believe it or not!
Why can’t people be nice without it being turned into a sexist act of disrespect.
Don't worry. Men don't like the poster you're addressing. I guarantee it.
There are lots of men who are attracted to the helpless, weak, needy woman because then they can be the 'guy' who is the knight in shining at or and they can be the provider / protector for sure. However there are also other men who are attracted to strong competent women who see themselves as an equal. Those guys may be harder to find if thy have been raised to think women need their help but they are out there.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 10:36
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weird. Women / Girls don't need a car door opened for them. It is very patriarchal and not someone people do now. Girls can open their own car doors believe it or not!
Why can’t people be nice without it being turned into a sexist act of disrespect.
Don't worry. Men don't like the poster you're addressing. I guarantee it.
Anonymous
03/07/2020 09:32
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Np: how difficult some of your lives must be if you’re always looking for ways to be offended.
You could think of it that way. Or you could see it for what it is...that it’s just one little manifestation of a much larger problem.
PP: not everything is an attack on pyour position as a woman. I am saying all of this as a 48 yr old female who hasn’t experienced the “patriarchal” attack that so many “feminists” are trying to convince us is a daily occurrence. I don’t give men that much credit.
Anonymous
03/06/2020 23:24
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weird. Women / Girls don't need a car door opened for them. It is very patriarchal and not someone people do now. Girls can open their own car doors believe it or not!
+1
I'd be turned off by a man who did this.
I would see it as a sign of kindness, consideration and respect.
Do young men not also deserve kindness, consideration and respect? Would you have your daughters open car doors for the young man? If it is just about respect, then it should go both ways.
Meagan Markle did it for Prince Harry. She opened the car door for him. That was very sweet. But White women are still mad at her because she is 1/2 Black.
Anonymous
03/06/2020 23:23
Subject: 15-yo DS Opens Car Door for a Girl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weird. Women / Girls don't need a car door opened for them. It is very patriarchal and not someone people do now. Girls can open their own car doors believe it or not!
+1
I'd be turned off by a man who did this.
I would see it as a sign of kindness, consideration and respect.
Yes, me too, even with the knowledge I am perfectly capable of opening my own door.
m
+1