Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you think if Student A who is white does X and Student B who is black does X... the black student should be suspended and the white student should not be suspended?

No, I am saying that anyone who does X should get suspended. Teachers have already said here they can not suspend minorities the past 1-2 years, due to restorative justice - meaning until these "numbers" get fixed and the suspensions are even between blacks, hispanics, white and Asians. But they are not getting fixed. So now I am guessing we will suspend more white and asians to even it out.

What if X is looking at your phone during class or going to the bathroom and being late for class.

Teachers are disciplining black students for things they let white kids slide on.

It was clear in the article they are talking about minor violations.

Lets see the list then, why aren't they showing the age, race, and age of each child and what it was that got them suspended.

Because I highly doubt black kids are getting suspended for using their phone in class and whites are allowed to just scroll away

Blair HS students actually tested it out. They purposely had white and black kids do the exact same thing and documented the treatment of black kids.

They were getting multiple violations that lead to a detention.

They wrote it up and presented it to the principal and school board... video is convenient.

There was also a study done for NBA referees and they also treat black players differently, and home teams differently... the study allowed them to made changes and education to fix the issue.

Love it. So MCPS should bade it’s discipline policy on a ‘study’ done by high school students? I hope they designed a well-thought our study. Free from bias.

Anonymous wrote:This was posted in the comments for OP's article:

For example, let's look at the weekly crime summary, which MCPD publishes on their website. The most recent is the report published on 2/18. It shows crimes, and if the suspect was not located, then a description of the suspect. I counted them up in cases where the race was listed:

13 black males, one Indian male. No white males. No Hispanic males. No women.

Now, I suppose one explanation is the witnesses and victims were misidentifying the race of the suspects, and the suspect was actually of a different race. But these are crimes all around the county, with different victims each time. I doubt they're all getting it wrong.

Maybe this was an anomaly. Let's look at the previous report, published on 2/6/20:
8 black males. No white males. No hispanic males. There was one woman of unknown race.

So, based on crime statistics, if there's a correlation between people who do bad things after graduating, and people who do bad things while still in school, then perhaps the numbers of black males suspended is actually disproportionately low?


I looked it up, and the data they refer to is here:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/crime/summaries.html

Bingo. This strongly suggests the # of suspensions in schools for them is likely less than it should be. And it fits with the lack of administration spine to suspend when necessary, but they don't want to do it because it looks bad on the books.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the little kids who noticed skin color and "getting in trouble" - it actually happened, and it happened more than once as my kids entered a diverse ES from a lily-white preK environment (I have four kids).

I don't think it's because the kids of color behave worse than the white kids at our school. And I do have older kids - HS and MS - and (I literally just asked one of them) they said "I never see white kids getting disciplined, but I see black kids getting in trouble all the time." It's still about what you see.

I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

Do you honestly believe the statement you made above? Do you really think most of it is bias against blacks? They're getting in trouble because they're causing trouble for everybody. I'm not saying the white kids are angels, they just probably hide it better from the teacher (or if they cause trouble they do it quietly without disruption). Do you honestly think most teachers are just racist and can't wait to get a kid in trouble? They would LOVE to have kids who listen and don't talk back or yell, irrespective of whatever color.

Yeah you're right, it really does SUCK when kids who want to learn can't get anything because the troublemakers are sucking the time and teacher's energy. Do you think they should just accept it? Or do you think ANY kid who causes trouble and disrupts the teacher should leave the class?

DP. Is most of it bias against blacks and Latino kids? No. Are most teachers just racist? No. Is some of it bias? Yes. Do we all have implicit biases, including teachers? Yes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you think if Student A who is white does X and Student B who is black does X... the black student should be suspended and the white student should not be suspended?

No, I am saying that anyone who does X should get suspended. Teachers have already said here they can not suspend minorities the past 1-2 years, due to restorative justice - meaning until these "numbers" get fixed and the suspensions are even between blacks, hispanics, white and Asians. But they are not getting fixed. So now I am guessing we will suspend more white and asians to even it out.

Some teachers (allegedly) on DCUM have said that. In my experience at a W MS, no one of any race is being suspended.

Anonymous wrote:As the parent of a mixed race kid (AA and white) who is 2- this is already on our minds when looking at schools.

My DH was (and is still) friends with mostly wealthy, white kids. One kid took the cops on a high speed chase through HoCo after being pulled over for a DUI. He got probation and a fine. If he was a minority, he would've been shot.

You have no idea whether this is true. For a couple of years now the press has been pushing this story that police killings of blacks are endemic and it's simply not true -- they are extremely rare and often associated with threatening activity on the part of the victim of the shooting. In a country of 300 million there will always be individual incidents that are egregious. You can make anything seem common by just amplifying those incidents all over the papers.

I was on the jury for an African-American kid who led the police on a high-speed chase through both DC and Maryland and ended up crashing. He didn't get shot or even injured, although he put many other people in great danger. He got a very brief jail sentence (in months), so it wasn't probation, but he certainly wasn't shot.

This was posted in the comments for OP's article:

For example, let's look at the weekly crime summary, which MCPD publishes on their website. The most recent is the report published on 2/18. It shows crimes, and if the suspect was not located, then a description of the suspect. I counted them up in cases where the race was listed:

13 black males, one Indian male. No white males. No Hispanic males. No women.

Now, I suppose one explanation is the witnesses and victims were misidentifying the race of the suspects, and the suspect was actually of a different race. But these are crimes all around the county, with different victims each time. I doubt they're all getting it wrong.

Maybe this was an anomaly. Let's look at the previous report, published on 2/6/20:
8 black males. No white males. No hispanic males. There was one woman of unknown race.

So, based on crime statistics, if there's a correlation between people who do bad things after graduating, and people who do bad things while still in school, then perhaps the numbers of black males suspended is actually disproportionately low?


I looked it up, and the data they refer to is here:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/crime/summaries.html

Anonymous wrote:OMG I can't keep working for MCPS. When is central office going to realize what a train wreck schools are nowadays? I only teach at the elementary level and the disrespect I witness daily is appalling. I've sat through countless staff meetings on courageous conversations about race, institutional racism, color blindness...you name it. None of them have given us concrete strategies to implement. It's all come down to - we are mainly white privileged women who can't possibly understand our students.
I'm so tired of watching my colleagues cry about work, bend over backwards for kids and still take abuse daily from kids. Do county parents know that last year MCPS had the highest number of teachers out on long term mental health leave than they have ever had? I'm wondering if we will top that this year?

I agree 100%. Also, the school where I teach is majority African American and Hispanic with a high FARMS rate. There are around 4 white kids per grade level. There are a few more Asian kids than that. We have two students who have been suspended this year for initiating a physical fight. One is African American and one is Hispanic. It's not a matter of us "picking on them" or calling them out for something that others wouldn't be called out for--but if you look at the statistics it looks bad. They assaulted another child which should carry consequences. But it's simply a matter of numbers. If a white or Asian kid initiated a physical fight or assault they would be suspended as well. The interesting thing is that the kids that were suspended for physical fighting have physically assaulted others since then, but they received in school suspension (which teachers have to volunteer to supervise) instead of out of school suspension to avoid making it official for data purposes.

I have personally been abused by students and have been told by admin that I must have done something to provoke them and also that what happened probably wasn't as bad as I thought it was and just needed to sit down with the child to work out why they felt angry enough to throw something at me or call me derogatory names.

Then we have to read in the media that we're all just racist and out to get kids of color. This just feeds the frenzy because kids have learned they can call us racist if they're asked to do anything they don't want to do. I love and care about my students and have worked in the high FARMS population for the majority of my career, but I just don't think I can do it anymore. I need to start prioritizing my own mental and physical health. MCPS certainly doesn't give a sh*it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

I think the issue that a lot of people are having is that MCPS is saying that because the data shows more students of color being disciplined, that then means that students of color are being disproportionately disciplined. That's a logical conclusion for which we don't seem to have any data. Perhaps the disparity is because of unconscious bias. Perhaps it's because students of color are misbehaving more in class. Perhaps it's a combination of both. To my knowledge, we don't have any data being presented to tell us.

It bothers people when MCPS draws conclusions like this with an obvious flaw in the logic, because it suggests that they don't give a damn about the empirical evidence, and are instead on an ideological crusade, data be damned.

I say this all as someone very receptive the unconscious bias concept. But even as a supporter, it frustrates me to see an organization acting based on insufficient data. All that does is annoy people on the other side of the issue - and rightfully so.

MCPS won't give the data because it will look bad, but it's unquestionably true that blacks and hispanics cause a lot more disruption on average then the rest. You are right that there is some unconscious bias as well; after teachers are repeatedly and daily subjected to abuse from students, will they not develop some bias at some point whether they want to or not? Of course they will, and they should not be blamed here because they are heroes to be able to still go in there and teach despite disrespect on a daily basis. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Teachers need to slowly take back their schools from the grips of bureaucratic and corrupt administration. Teachers need to have the autonomy to impose order in their classroom and kick kids out when they're shouting, yelling, or doing worse things. The administration's job is support the teachers by letting them teach, and the admin's job is to handle the kids who can't remain in class. It is clear that the admin's excuse is to point fingers at the teachers instead of owning up to doing their own job. The primary responsibility of DISCIPLINE falls on the principals and admins, NOT on the teachers.

Anonymous wrote: Do county parents know that last year MCPS had the highest number of teachers out on long term mental health leave than they have ever had? I'm wondering if we will top that this year?

No, because MCPS does not publish this data, nor do they publish teacher retention rates. I wonder why...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you think if Student A who is white does X and Student B who is black does X... the black student should be suspended and the white student should not be suspended?

Black Student B is considered bad and white Student A is deemed to have a special need. I'm white and see it all the time. The fellow students who are disrupting my 6th grade daughter's classes (I see it most often with my 6th grader - her grade seems to have lots of difficult kids)? Both white girls who have no impulse control. Not the brown/black kids.

According to the report posted by OP, the majority of suspensions are special ed students. So it's black and hispanic special ed students being suspended.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the little kids who noticed skin color and "getting in trouble" - it actually happened, and it happened more than once as my kids entered a diverse ES from a lily-white preK environment (I have four kids).

I don't think it's because the kids of color behave worse than the white kids at our school. And I do have older kids - HS and MS - and (I literally just asked one of them) they said "I never see white kids getting disciplined, but I see black kids getting in trouble all the time." It's still about what you see.

I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

Do you honestly believe the statement you made above? Do you really think most of it is bias against blacks? They're getting in trouble because they're causing trouble for everybody. I'm not saying the white kids are angels, they just probably hide it better from the teacher (or if they cause trouble they do it quietly without disruption). Do you honestly think most teachers are just racist and can't wait to get a kid in trouble? They would LOVE to have kids who listen and don't talk back or yell, irrespective of whatever color.

Yeah you're right, it really does SUCK when kids who want to learn can't get anything because the troublemakers are sucking the time and teacher's energy. Do you think they should just accept it? Or do you think ANY kid who causes trouble and disrupts the teacher should leave the class?

Anonymous wrote:I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

I think the issue that a lot of people are having is that MCPS is saying that because the data shows more students of color being disciplined, that then means that students of color are being disproportionately disciplined. That's a logical conclusion for which we don't seem to have any data. Perhaps the disparity is because of unconscious bias. Perhaps it's because students of color are misbehaving more in class. Perhaps it's a combination of both. To my knowledge, we don't have any data being presented to tell us.

It bothers people when MCPS draws conclusions like this with an obvious flaw in the logic, because it suggests that they don't give a damn about the empirical evidence, and are instead on an ideological crusade, data be damned.

I say this all as someone very receptive the unconscious bias concept. But even as a supporter, it frustrates me to see an organization acting based on insufficient data. All that does is annoy people on the other side of the issue - and rightfully so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world will “cultural training” help decrease suspensions. What are kids doing wrong that is culturally ok in school that teachers are suspending them for.

https://www.edutopia.org/discussion/being-mindful-cultural-differences

This is how to teach them. Not how to allow them to verbally abuse or interrupt class. Or bully people. Or not get detention.

I'm the PP with the little kids who noticed skin color and "getting in trouble" - it actually happened, and it happened more than once as my kids entered a diverse ES from a lily-white preK environment (I have four kids).

I don't think it's because the kids of color behave worse than the white kids at our school. And I do have older kids - HS and MS - and (I literally just asked one of them) they said "I never see white kids getting disciplined, but I see black kids getting in trouble all the time." It's still about what you see.

I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

OMG I can't keep working for MCPS. When is central office going to realize what a train wreck schools are nowadays? I only teach at the elementary level and the disrespect I witness daily is appalling. I've sat through countless staff meetings on courageous conversations about race, institutional racism, color blindness...you name it. None of them have given us concrete strategies to implement. It's all come down to - we are mainly white privileged women who can't possibly understand our students.
I'm so tired of watching my colleagues cry about work, bend over backwards for kids and still take abuse daily from kids. Do county parents know that last year MCPS had the highest number of teachers out on long term mental health leave than they have ever had? I'm wondering if we will top that this year?