Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 18:43     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:Schools make money off of sports programs overall. Women's soccer maybe not, but it's a net revenue stream for most colleges.


No, it isn’t. There is not near enough revenue generated for these sports to cover the costs. Hence why many schools now charge “athletic fees” to the students. They are trying to cover the expenditures. Again, with the exception of football and men’s b-ball.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 13:36     Subject: College official visits
To get back to your original post: if a coach hasn’t offered then most likely he or she is not going out on a limb to recruit your child. Your daughter could ask if she wants but I don’t think it’s likely to sway the coach. I went on all five trips, but waited until my senior year. I was playing up a year and almost all of my former teammates were college freshmen so it was nice to be able to stay with them and also have their perspective. I ended up going to a school where a couple of my club teammates were playing.

Good luck to your daughter!
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 13:27     Subject: College official visits
Schools make money off of sports programs overall. Women's soccer maybe not, but it's a net revenue stream for most colleges.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 10:49     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Take a fully funded women’s soccer team at a college that cost $25K a year for tuition, room and board. You will have 1 head coach ($100,000) and 2 Asst coaches ($60,000) and the team’s share of administrative expenses - locker rooms, uniforms, shoes, training staff, programs, office space, field maintenance, time from athletic director, meals, athletic study room etc. call that another $150,000. So, figure $300-350K hard costs. Add another $50,000 for travel. Ballpark $350-400K out of pocket a year. Let’s say there are 28 kids on the roster. There’s often more and sometimes you could find teams with 25 or so. 28 is not a bad guesstimate. Fully funded that would mean on average everyone pays 50% of the attendance cost or $12,500 per athlete. That’s $350K. The team will raise $25K in advertising, ticket sales, etc. So, out of pocket to a college a fully funded team so close to break even. Most Div 1s are not fully funded though. Cut your scholarships from 14 to 7 and now the school is putting six figures into its pocket.

This math starts off with some wrong assumptions. First, scholarships are calculated off of the full *out-of-state* cost of attendance. For example, at Maryland this year that is $48,556; at Georgetown it's around $72,000. For a fully-funded program, multiply those numbers times 14 (women) or 9.9 (men), so $680k-1m for women and $480-712k for men. So state schools have an advantage when they recruit in-state players because their scholarships are calculated based on out-of-state tuition, but are paid out as dollars. At Maryland, the full in-state cost is just less than half the out-of-state number above, so they can have two MD scholarship players for one "scholarship" of their 14. Georgetown (private) can't do this, and also can't combine need-based aid (with which they are pretty generous) with athletic scholarships--that's not allowed.

Hope this helps anyone who's approaching this process for the first time.


Incorrect. The calculation is done based on the Cost of Attendance for each player. A D1 women's soccer team has 14 scholarships. They cannot just grab all in-state players and fully fund everyone.

Here is how the math works.

Player 1 is out of state at a $50,000 tuition. She gets a full ride ($50,000) so the program counts her as one 1 counter against the 14.
Player 2 is in state at a $20,000 tuition. She get a 50% offer ($10,000) so the program counts her as .5 counter against the 14.
Player 3 is in state at a $20,000 tuition. She gets a 100% offer ($20,000) so the program counts her as 1 counter against the 14.
Player 4 is out of state at a $50,000 tuition. She gets a 25% offer ($12,500) so the program counts her as .25 counter against the 14.

The program has used 2.75 of the 14 scholarships. Yes it could have saved money (a lot) by offering only in state players but either way cannot exceed 14 scholarships.



That’s just silly. It doesn’t cost a school any more to feed or house a kid from Michigan than from Florida. The incremental expense of educating a student are the same as an average. And, frankly, athletes are likely less expensive to educate because of their more limited options for majors. Things like music, art, and lab sciences are very difficult to do and play a sport. The women’s soccer player isn’t keeping some other kid who would pay full price tuition from attending. They both can attend. The school breaks even or makes a little money on the soccer player and makes more on the non-athlete (unless they get into an expensive major).


Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 09:58     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Take a fully funded women’s soccer team at a college that cost $25K a year for tuition, room and board. You will have 1 head coach ($100,000) and 2 Asst coaches ($60,000) and the team’s share of administrative expenses - locker rooms, uniforms, shoes, training staff, programs, office space, field maintenance, time from athletic director, meals, athletic study room etc. call that another $150,000. So, figure $300-350K hard costs. Add another $50,000 for travel. Ballpark $350-400K out of pocket a year. Let’s say there are 28 kids on the roster. There’s often more and sometimes you could find teams with 25 or so. 28 is not a bad guesstimate. Fully funded that would mean on average everyone pays 50% of the attendance cost or $12,500 per athlete. That’s $350K. The team will raise $25K in advertising, ticket sales, etc. So, out of pocket to a college a fully funded team so close to break even. Most Div 1s are not fully funded though. Cut your scholarships from 14 to 7 and now the school is putting six figures into its pocket.

This math starts off with some wrong assumptions. First, scholarships are calculated off of the full *out-of-state* cost of attendance. For example, at Maryland this year that is $48,556; at Georgetown it's around $72,000. For a fully-funded program, multiply those numbers times 14 (women) or 9.9 (men), so $680k-1m for women and $480-712k for men. So state schools have an advantage when they recruit in-state players because their scholarships are calculated based on out-of-state tuition, but are paid out as dollars. At Maryland, the full in-state cost is just less than half the out-of-state number above, so they can have two MD scholarship players for one "scholarship" of their 14. Georgetown (private) can't do this, and also can't combine need-based aid (with which they are pretty generous) with athletic scholarships--that's not allowed.

Hope this helps anyone who's approaching this process for the first time.


Incorrect. The calculation is done based on the Cost of Attendance for each player. A D1 women's soccer team has 14 scholarships. They cannot just grab all in-state players and fully fund everyone.

Here is how the math works.

Player 1 is out of state at a $50,000 tuition. She gets a full ride ($50,000) so the program counts her as one 1 counter against the 14.
Player 2 is in state at a $20,000 tuition. She get a 50% offer ($10,000) so the program counts her as .5 counter against the 14.
Player 3 is in state at a $20,000 tuition. She gets a 100% offer ($20,000) so the program counts her as 1 counter against the 14.
Player 4 is out of state at a $50,000 tuition. She gets a 25% offer ($12,500) so the program counts her as .25 counter against the 14.

The program has used 2.75 of the 14 scholarships. Yes it could have saved money (a lot) by offering only in state players but either way cannot exceed 14 scholarships.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 09:47     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Take a fully funded women’s soccer team at a college that cost $25K a year for tuition, room and board. You will have 1 head coach ($100,000) and 2 Asst coaches ($60,000) and the team’s share of administrative expenses - locker rooms, uniforms, shoes, training staff, programs, office space, field maintenance, time from athletic director, meals, athletic study room etc. call that another $150,000. So, figure $300-350K hard costs. Add another $50,000 for travel. Ballpark $350-400K out of pocket a year. Let’s say there are 28 kids on the roster. There’s often more and sometimes you could find teams with 25 or so. 28 is not a bad guesstimate. Fully funded that would mean on average everyone pays 50% of the attendance cost or $12,500 per athlete. That’s $350K. The team will raise $25K in advertising, ticket sales, etc. So, out of pocket to a college a fully funded team so close to break even. Most Div 1s are not fully funded though. Cut your scholarships from 14 to 7 and now the school is putting six figures into its pocket.

This math starts off with some wrong assumptions. First, scholarships are calculated off of the full *out-of-state* cost of attendance. For example, at Maryland this year that is $48,556; at Georgetown it's around $72,000. For a fully-funded program, multiply those numbers times 14 (women) or 9.9 (men), so $680k-1m for women and $480-712k for men. So state schools have an advantage when they recruit in-state players because their scholarships are calculated based on out-of-state tuition, but are paid out as dollars. At Maryland, the full in-state cost is just less than half the out-of-state number above, so they can have two MD scholarship players for one "scholarship" of their 14. Georgetown (private) can't do this, and also can't combine need-based aid (with which they are pretty generous) with athletic scholarships--that's not allowed.

Hope this helps anyone who's approaching this process for the first time.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 09:12     Subject: College official visits
.


And now you know a contributing factor to rising college tuition. Paying for non-profitable athletic endeavors like women’s and men’s college soccer (and any other sport except football and men’s b-ball). $450k per year for scholarships, plus add the costs for coach and trainer pay, facilities, insurance, travel, food, equipment, etc. I love it, but it really is not worth it in my opinion. Hopefully, my kid can claw some of this back but I feel sorry for all the other kids that have to pay for others to play a sport. I suppose the alumni donations help too ... some.


Not really.

Take a fully funded women’s soccer team at a college that cost $25K a year for tuition, room and board. You will have 1 head coach ($100,000) and 2 Asst coaches ($60,000) and the team’s share of administrative expenses - locker rooms, uniforms, shoes, training staff, programs, office space, field maintenance, time from athletic director, meals, athletic study room etc. call that another $150,000. So, figure $300-350K hard costs. Add another $50,000 for travel. Ballpark $350-400K out of pocket a year. Let’s say there are 28 kids on the roster. There’s often more and sometimes you could find teams with 25 or so. 28 is not a bad guesstimate. Fully funded that would mean on average everyone pays 50% of the attendance cost or $12,500 per athlete. That’s $350K. The team will raise $25K in advertising, ticket sales, etc. So, out of pocket to a college a fully funded team so close to break even. Most Div 1s are not fully funded though. Cut your scholarships from 14 to 7 and now the school is putting six figures into its pocket.

See, the incremental cost of adding 28 soccer players into a student population of say 25,000 is essentially zero. No one is hiring anyone for that team that isn’t being covered by the dollars generated from tuition the team members play. And, the school is not keeping a full pay student from coming because they have 28 women soccer players who take up too much room.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2020 06:18     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.


The value of the full ride equals whatever the cost would be at that school if there wasn't a scholarship. So if it would cost $25K to go there with no scholarship, and my kid gets a full ride, then 4 yrs x $25k equals $100K. It doesn't matter what the other kids are paying, what the soccer program costs, or any of that. That is the end user value my kid is receiving to be there.


Yup. My kid does not have a full ride, but the total athletic scholarship amount at an expensive private D1 school equals a bit more than $200,000 over 4 years. Scholarships are given as percentages of total costs.


Correct. I was talking about averages. The COA varies by school and student. My point was the budgets are far higher than $200K for the whole program. For some students yes a full can be over $200K for OOS.


Yeah, I just wanted to add on to your point because I think a lot of people don’t understand how athletic scholarship work, even many with kids in a position to get them down the road.


And now you know a contributing factor to rising college tuition. Paying for non-profitable athletic endeavors like women’s and men’s college soccer (and any other sport except football and men’s b-ball). $450k per year for scholarships, plus add the costs for coach and trainer pay, facilities, insurance, travel, food, equipment, etc. I love it, but it really is not worth it in my opinion. Hopefully, my kid can claw some of this back but I feel sorry for all the other kids that have to pay for others to play a sport. I suppose the alumni donations help too ... some.


Follow the money. Most of it comes from football and basketball. They subsidize the other sports. That money comes from TV deals. So you are paying more through your ESPN subscription and $4 bag of Doritos than you kids tuition bill.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 23:26     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.


The value of the full ride equals whatever the cost would be at that school if there wasn't a scholarship. So if it would cost $25K to go there with no scholarship, and my kid gets a full ride, then 4 yrs x $25k equals $100K. It doesn't matter what the other kids are paying, what the soccer program costs, or any of that. That is the end user value my kid is receiving to be there.


Yup. My kid does not have a full ride, but the total athletic scholarship amount at an expensive private D1 school equals a bit more than $200,000 over 4 years. Scholarships are given as percentages of total costs.


Correct. I was talking about averages. The COA varies by school and student. My point was the budgets are far higher than $200K for the whole program. For some students yes a full can be over $200K for OOS.


Yeah, I just wanted to add on to your point because I think a lot of people don’t understand how athletic scholarship work, even many with kids in a position to get them down the road.


And now you know a contributing factor to rising college tuition. Paying for non-profitable athletic endeavors like women’s and men’s college soccer (and any other sport except football and men’s b-ball). $450k per year for scholarships, plus add the costs for coach and trainer pay, facilities, insurance, travel, food, equipment, etc. I love it, but it really is not worth it in my opinion. Hopefully, my kid can claw some of this back but I feel sorry for all the other kids that have to pay for others to play a sport. I suppose the alumni donations help too ... some.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 23:25     Subject: College official visits
That explanation makes no sense.

If you wish to do some research on scholarships for soccer start with the basics.

For Division 1 schools on the women’s side, a school can offer up to 14 “full” scholarships. On the men’s side it is 9.9. Those are the max numbers. Many schools do not offer the max number. They might, for example, offer 6 women’s scholarships and not have a guy’s team. With soccer, a school can offer partial scholarships though. So a school with a budget of 6 total scholarships could offer a quarter scholarship to incoming freshman and then up that later.

A key point is that scholarships can stack. So - a kid who qualifies for good academic money can really cut costs down. Example: let’s say tuition, board and housing are $24,000 a year. Your kid is offered a 25% ride to start. That’s $6,000, That leaves you owing $18,000. Now, let’s say your kid had a 3.7 gpa and rolled a good ACT or SAT score such that they qualify for a “Presidential” scholarship of $6,000 a year as long abs they maintain their grades. Now you are on the hook for $12,000. Depending on your own finances there can be substantial additional grants. Common Pell Grants would cover about $6,000. Student loans would cover the balance. So, that $24K can be handled fairly easily particularly if your kid has good high school grades.

Do look into scholarships that are offered for special interests and circumstances. And, do consider sources outside of the school. My own kid got a very nice scholarship given by a wealthy member of our church to any kid from the church who sang in the choir and who would sing in the school’s choir program. My kid is a decent singer who sang in the church youth choir and her high school choirs for fun. The church organists was asking the high school kids where they were going to college. My daughter said X, and the organists said “hey if you wanted to keep singing Y sponsors this scholarship.” She sang for all 4 years. The scholarship was about a quarter scholarship.







Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 20:53     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.


The value of the full ride equals whatever the cost would be at that school if there wasn't a scholarship. So if it would cost $25K to go there with no scholarship, and my kid gets a full ride, then 4 yrs x $25k equals $100K. It doesn't matter what the other kids are paying, what the soccer program costs, or any of that. That is the end user value my kid is receiving to be there.


Yup. My kid does not have a full ride, but the total athletic scholarship amount at an expensive private D1 school equals a bit more than $200,000 over 4 years. Scholarships are given as percentages of total costs.


Correct. I was talking about averages. The COA varies by school and student. My point was the budgets are far higher than $200K for the whole program. For some students yes a full can be over $200K for OOS.


Yeah, I just wanted to add on to your point because I think a lot of people don’t understand how athletic scholarship work, even many with kids in a position to get them down the road.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 17:05     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.


The value of the full ride equals whatever the cost would be at that school if there wasn't a scholarship. So if it would cost $25K to go there with no scholarship, and my kid gets a full ride, then 4 yrs x $25k equals $100K. It doesn't matter what the other kids are paying, what the soccer program costs, or any of that. That is the end user value my kid is receiving to be there.


Yup. My kid does not have a full ride, but the total athletic scholarship amount at an expensive private D1 school equals a bit more than $200,000 over 4 years. Scholarships are given as percentages of total costs.


Correct. I was talking about averages. The COA varies by school and student. My point was the budgets are far higher than $200K for the whole program. For some students yes a full can be over $200K for OOS.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 15:36     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.


The value of the full ride equals whatever the cost would be at that school if there wasn't a scholarship. So if it would cost $25K to go there with no scholarship, and my kid gets a full ride, then 4 yrs x $25k equals $100K. It doesn't matter what the other kids are paying, what the soccer program costs, or any of that. That is the end user value my kid is receiving to be there.


Yup. My kid does not have a full ride, but the total athletic scholarship amount at an expensive private D1 school equals a bit more than $200,000 over 4 years. Scholarships are given as percentages of total costs.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 14:57     Subject: College official visits
Anonymous wrote:In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.


The value of the full ride equals whatever the cost would be at that school if there wasn't a scholarship. So if it would cost $25K to go there with no scholarship, and my kid gets a full ride, then 4 yrs x $25k equals $100K. It doesn't matter what the other kids are paying, what the soccer program costs, or any of that. That is the end user value my kid is receiving to be there.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2020 08:55     Subject: College official visits
In Women’s D1 soccer the average scholarship is $17,766. The average number offered is 25. On an annual basis that’s $444,150. Over 4 years the average budget is $1,776,600.

You can divide the $444K by 14 and get $31,760. Times four is $127K. That would be the average value of a full ride scholarship.