Anonymous
01/15/2020 12:39
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
The information about MCPS percentile is out there. I'm assuming they're choosing not to draw attention to it at the point when people's emotions are most amped up - as they are opening to actual letter.
The information may be "out there", but when 100% of parents receive a certain form letter with the reduced, incomplete (but doesn't appear incomplete) information, you can't fault parents for not realizing they haven't gotten the complete information. It's not like they said "for more the full info on what MCPS means, including the 'norming' process which is not discussed here, please see the FAQs." They appear to provide a definition of the MCPS % in the letter.
They just list "reviewing the FAQs" as a next step, along with exploring options at the local MS. They should have said, "there is more information about the test scoring and other issues here at this link."
Anonymous
01/15/2020 11:57
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:
PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
The information about MCPS percentile is out there. I'm assuming they're choosing not to draw attention to it at the point when people's emotions are most amped up - as they are opening to actual letter.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 11:30
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
On the other thread, a poster soecifically said CeS kids were placed in their CES school’s band not their home school. Neither poster linked to anything from mcos and as far as i know mcps has not stated how they grouped the ces kids.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 11:13
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?
Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.
"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."
That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.
PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf
For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).
Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.
Your assumption is incorrect. Consider your child’s home ES. Consider their SES (high, low, or moderate). That is what MCPS uses to adjust the scores. Keep in mind that an MCPS-wide score, even if adjusted for SES, is just looking at the kids who were actually tested on the CoGAT. A large number were never even assessed by the CoGAT.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 11:01
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?
Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.
"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."
That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.
PP here who initially said 'that's not how it works'. I stand corrected. However, I believe the letter sent out yesterday is misleading because it does not include this info (in the paragraph above) about what 'MCPS %ile' actually means. Without going to the FAQ, I would have simply taken this to mean that it's the percentile related to the MCPS-wide body of test-takers. And I didn't think I really had to go to any FAQs--it seemed straightforward if you read it on face value.
Even this, in the following FAQ(#5), implies my first (incorrect) reading of what MCPS means:
"Two percentiles are presented for your student; the MCPS percentile compares your student with other MCPS Grade 5 students who took the CogAT, and the national percentile compares your student with other Grade 5 students nationally who took the CogAT."... https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf
For me, I wonder how the CES is factored in. I assume the presence of a CES, as well the CES's being in a higher SES grouping, contributes to my child's "MCPS" scores being noticeably below the national % (for example, his Q scores are 96%mcps and 99% national).
Many congratulations to those whose children are admitted. For those whose were rejected, fingers crossed that your child can get the enriched classes in their home schools.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 10:07
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?
Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.
"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."
That detailed info is not in the letter for people accepted to the program.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 10:06
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?
Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.
"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."
You can find that info on the FAQ: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf
Anonymous
01/15/2020 10:05
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?
Copying this from the other thread, since I don't have my child's letter on hand.
"National norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on those who took
the test nationally. Local norms are designed to compare and rank test takers in relation to one another based on
those who took the test locally – within MCPS. Local norming provides information about students in relation
to their academic peer groups in MCPS. MCPS CogAT percentiles are locally normed percentiles established
based on the three sections of the CogAT. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an
equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally,
the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes
the use of local norms as part of its gifted and talented identification process. The socioeconomic status of
elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). In
establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with minimal poverty were compared to one another,
students in schools with moderate poverty were compared to each other, and students from schools highly
impacted by poverty were compared to each other."
Anonymous
01/15/2020 10:01
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
My letter states, “...your child is being compared to MCPS students for the MCPS percentile and compared to students nationally for the national percentile.”
Is there another source of info where it indicates that the “MCPS students” mentioned are only those MCPS students at his/her home school?
Anonymous
01/15/2020 09:57
Subject: Re:MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So glad DC’s letter didn’t come today so I can needlessly obsess about this again tomorrow. DC’s scores seem to be in line with kids who have reported getting in, which makes the guessing game even more fun.
Right there with you, sister!
Have I completely entered Crazy Town territory if I ask the sitter to open it and send me a picture so I can see the results? I would just wait til
I get home, but the home MS orientation meeting is tonight, and I have to go there straight from work. I might have different questions about the home MS, depending on whether a magnet is an option. Crazy, or Not Crazy?
Another vote for Not Crazy. It’s just a practical matter. Steel yourself for a possible rejection and how to respond to the sitter, so that the sitter doesn’t feel awkward delivering the news if it upsets you. Good luck !!
Anonymous
01/15/2020 09:55
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
That is how it works, actually, as of last year. For CES kids, I'm not 100% sure whether it is "home school" or CES school, but yes, your MCPS percentile will be different depending on the poverty rate at one of the two.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 09:53
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
So you are expecting the MCPS percentiles to be different depending on what school the child attends? That isn’t how this works.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 09:09
Subject: Re:MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:You already proved yourself crazy by being on this board. Case closed.
It's a problem, because although this board is crazy, it's also unfortunately the best way to find out (however inaccurately) about MCPS stuff. I went to the Northwest HS boundary analysis meeting yesterday, and it was just like a DCUM thread come to life. Horrifying.
Anonymous
01/15/2020 09:04
Subject: Re:MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:You already proved yourself crazy by being on this board. Case closed.
Pot, meet Kettle!
Anonymous
01/15/2020 08:57
Subject: MCPS Middle School Magnet decisions are out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a little curious as to the difference between the various MCPS percentiles across different schools. My kid had a 97% quantitative national, but 81% percentile coming from what I think is a relatively low FARMS rate elementary school. Is there anyone at a high FARMS rate elementary school that also had a 97% quantitative on the national scale that would be willing to share their MCPS percentile?
My child had a 98% on the quantitative national, and 98% on MCPS percentile. However, whether their "cohort" is high FARMS or moderate FARMS is going to depend on whether they are using our home school or the CES.
However, someone in another thread pointed out that "number attempted" does matter, and that the bands are really large. I'm just not sure how much we can glean from these anecdotes.
My guess is that the “bands” are Title I, FOCUS, neither, but they haven’t actually said that.