Anonymous
Post 01/25/2020 07:25     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


I actually have come to the conclusion that the tests are culturally biased. I was reading an article about academic “skills” v content knowledge. It gave the example of people asked to answer questions after reading or being told a story about a baseball game. It was like “A hit a single to right field, B struck out, C hit a double to left, etc”. The people who could answer the questions best and remember the story and details from the story were the people who knew the most about baseball before reading the story, not the people who were the “best” readers. No test only tests “skills.” They inevitably also test content knowledge that the test makers “expect” to be accessible to kids of that age - generally based on middle class white cultural expectations. Anyway, I’ve been following this for a while, not professionally, and that’s what I’ve come to believe. It’s hidden tests of content knowledge that higher SES kids are getting at home, on trips, on vacation, at camps, etc.

I agree, but it’s not like low income kids grow up in Africa or India or wherever.
They grow up here. If they don’t know baseball rules, they maybe know something basic about pumpkin pie, or any pie or anything baking.
If they don’t know about sleep away camps, they should know about camping or sleepovers.
It is sad they don’t have any background knowledge, but this is not an excuse to ditch all the tests.





I agree. Their background knowledge isn’t that lacking. Low income kids tend to watch a lot of TV. They certainly get enough exposure to understand that a baseball game is a sport, pumpkin pie is something you eat, and they get the gist of sleep away camp. Even kids who are recent immigrants come with a decent amount of background knowledge about American culture, because most countries (especially in Latin America) show a lot of American TV.


You have clearly never worked in a high FARMS school if you believe that to be true.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2020 07:21     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


I actually have come to the conclusion that the tests are culturally biased. I was reading an article about academic “skills” v content knowledge. It gave the example of people asked to answer questions after reading or being told a story about a baseball game. It was like “A hit a single to right field, B struck out, C hit a double to left, etc”. The people who could answer the questions best and remember the story and details from the story were the people who knew the most about baseball before reading the story, not the people who were the “best” readers. No test only tests “skills.” They inevitably also test content knowledge that the test makers “expect” to be accessible to kids of that age - generally based on middle class white cultural expectations. Anyway, I’ve been following this for a while, not professionally, and that’s what I’ve come to believe. It’s hidden tests of content knowledge that higher SES kids are getting at home, on trips, on vacation, at camps, etc.

I agree, but it’s not like low income kids grow up in Africa or India or wherever.
They grow up here. If they don’t know baseball rules, they maybe know something basic about pumpkin pie, or any pie or anything baking.
If they don’t know about sleep away camps, they should know about camping or sleepovers.
It is sad they don’t have any background knowledge, but this is not an excuse to ditch all the tests.





I agree. Their background knowledge isn’t that lacking. Low income kids tend to watch a lot of TV. They certainly get enough exposure to understand that a baseball game is a sport, pumpkin pie is something you eat, and they get the gist of sleep away camp. Even kids who are recent immigrants come with a decent amount of background knowledge about American culture, because most countries (especially in Latin America) show a lot of American TV.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2020 19:50     Subject: Re:Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
But the answer isn't to try to make contentless tests, it is to make sure that every kids learns content (literature, science, history, geography, music, art) from preschool on. Kids coming in from other countries need to have their own orientation programs that teach background knowledge for our culture instead of being thrown in and then expecting everyone else to slow down or to have their culture purged from school.


Bravo.

And math is universally not related to culture or "content."

Anonymous
Post 01/23/2020 19:38     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:17:21, teaching is definitely a safety related job. We are held accountable if children are injured if we aren’t paying attention. We can even be held accountable for not mentioned our suspicions of emotional harm. But no one is writing teachers up for sitting down for a moment.




No but 9:38 apparently wants to burn teachers at the stake for it … I know she is just another whack job parent but she needs to get a grip. She is making the rest of us parents look bad by her extreme position.

We cannot equate the general safe-keeping and care by teachers with that required by police officers, doctors and nurses, the military, etc., for the general public Teachers have a general role in keeping kids safe but it is nothing like those other professions. Sheesh. And even those folks get breaks.


Perfect DCUM moment: I am 09:38! I teach in a Title I School.

I distinguish between the person who takes a few moments’ break to sit and catch their breath and the people I see actually slacking off during class while poor kids are not learning. No one is being put on a performance plan for sitting for a few minutes, but the teachers who don’t make lesson plans and just wing it or play a movie every Friday... Yeah, I will always come after them. I was a poor kid and school was my salvation.


And I stand by my post. People like you are the problem. You are using polarizing language and shouting hysterically without a cogent response. The above is reasonable; your 9:38 response is not. People like you should not be teaching, and you especially should NOT be teaching our society's most vulnerable children.


And yet my students show gains in reading and writing that the teachers who slack say can’t be achieved.


How many years have you been doing it? Do you have children if your own? Do you think you can keep up this pace indefinitely? Do you think teaching is a profession that should be done for 5-10 years and then move on for a better quality of life? Honestly curious about your thoughts. There were a lot of things I could do in my 20s that I can’t do in my 40s with two kids in elementary school (I’m not a teacher but see my job as somewhat similar in terms of the commitment and zealousness of the young versus what can realistically be accomplished with a lot more responsibilities and competing claims on my time)


I’m mid-career. I have one child left at home. I don’t know about indefinitely, but I know I would rather leave for a different position than not be up to the job and cheat the kids of a decent education. Another thread had a poster mocking parents who believe education is a path out of poverty. I go to work each day to not only encourage education as a path, but to stand as evidence. I was a poor kid. Thank God my teachers kept up the pace. Some of them taught at that inner city public ES for 40+ years.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2020 18:11     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


I actually have come to the conclusion that the tests are culturally biased. I was reading an article about academic “skills” v content knowledge. It gave the example of people asked to answer questions after reading or being told a story about a baseball game. It was like “A hit a single to right field, B struck out, C hit a double to left, etc”. The people who could answer the questions best and remember the story and details from the story were the people who knew the most about baseball before reading the story, not the people who were the “best” readers. No test only tests “skills.” They inevitably also test content knowledge that the test makers “expect” to be accessible to kids of that age - generally based on middle class white cultural expectations. Anyway, I’ve been following this for a while, not professionally, and that’s what I’ve come to believe. It’s hidden tests of content knowledge that higher SES kids are getting at home, on trips, on vacation, at camps, etc.


I agree. I teach in a high FARMS school and the stuff we see on tests is very culturally biased. A passage about sleep away camp (or camping), then a passage about American football, then one about making pumpkin pie. They are written as though everyone has experience with those topics. If they don’t have the background knowledge on those topics then they’re already at a disadvantage on those assessments. It’s not like sleepaway camp, football and pumpkin pie are all part of the curriculum, so they’re being tested on content knowledge. They’re being tested on skills unrelated to content knowledge and the assessments don’t provide a level playing field.


This is not news. It is the basis of E.D. Hirsch's Core Knowledge curriculum (original Virginia SOLs) and lots of research about reading comprehension in older grades. Kids can decode but they don't understand the context of what they are reading. But the answer isn't to try to make contentless tests, it is to make sure that every kids learns content (literature, science, history, geography, music, art) from preschool on. Kids coming in from other countries need to have their own orientation programs that teach background knowledge for our culture instead of being thrown in and then expecting everyone else to slow down or to have their culture purged from school.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2020 11:12     Subject: Re:Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
School systems have standards but they are most devoid of content. These reading tests measure one's general knowledge. Schools seem very anti-content until certain grade levels and then even then, they love to talk about higher order thinking. It's pretty hard to use those skills when you have very little general knowledge. So either the US adopts a common curriculum or the problem persists.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2020 10:36     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


I actually have come to the conclusion that the tests are culturally biased. I was reading an article about academic “skills” v content knowledge. It gave the example of people asked to answer questions after reading or being told a story about a baseball game. It was like “A hit a single to right field, B struck out, C hit a double to left, etc”. The people who could answer the questions best and remember the story and details from the story were the people who knew the most about baseball before reading the story, not the people who were the “best” readers. No test only tests “skills.” They inevitably also test content knowledge that the test makers “expect” to be accessible to kids of that age - generally based on middle class white cultural expectations. Anyway, I’ve been following this for a while, not professionally, and that’s what I’ve come to believe. It’s hidden tests of content knowledge that higher SES kids are getting at home, on trips, on vacation, at camps, etc.

I agree, but it’s not like low income kids grow up in Africa or India or wherever.
They grow up here. If they don’t know baseball rules, they maybe know something basic about pumpkin pie, or any pie or anything baking.
If they don’t know about sleep away camps, they should know about camping or sleepovers.
It is sad they don’t have any background knowledge, but this is not an excuse to ditch all the tests.


NP. Baseball, pie, and camping are all pretty uniquely USian/European.

Heck, my child missed a question because it asked what you call a group of boats. This is a middle class, highly enriched, avid reader but had never encountered the word flotilla before.

I don't think anyone is arguing for getting rid of tests, but I also think the very same folks who think the current system is perfectly fair would lose their minds if the reading sections were about how to make a tamale and the rules of cricket.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2020 22:10     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


I actually have come to the conclusion that the tests are culturally biased. I was reading an article about academic “skills” v content knowledge. It gave the example of people asked to answer questions after reading or being told a story about a baseball game. It was like “A hit a single to right field, B struck out, C hit a double to left, etc”. The people who could answer the questions best and remember the story and details from the story were the people who knew the most about baseball before reading the story, not the people who were the “best” readers. No test only tests “skills.” They inevitably also test content knowledge that the test makers “expect” to be accessible to kids of that age - generally based on middle class white cultural expectations. Anyway, I’ve been following this for a while, not professionally, and that’s what I’ve come to believe. It’s hidden tests of content knowledge that higher SES kids are getting at home, on trips, on vacation, at camps, etc.

I agree, but it’s not like low income kids grow up in Africa or India or wherever.
They grow up here. If they don’t know baseball rules, they maybe know something basic about pumpkin pie, or any pie or anything baking.
If they don’t know about sleep away camps, they should know about camping or sleepovers.
It is sad they don’t have any background knowledge, but this is not an excuse to ditch all the tests.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2020 22:06     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


Sorry if I missed it. I have only skimmed the thread. What is the g-word?

Genetics
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2020 21:20     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


Sorry if I missed it. I have only skimmed the thread. What is the g-word?
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2020 20:25     Subject: Teachers, what’s the difference between teaching at a Title 1 school vs low ses not title 1?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then why, with all this great teaching going on in Title 1 schools, is their a persistent diversity gap and SAT scores are in decline in the County? Seriously. The magic happens - despite real efforts I’m sure by some teachers - at cram school (Kumon, Mathnesium, Linda-mood Bell). This seems like a lot of teacher posturing going on. In the end, it is what the Vietnamese call the ‘homework’ table that gets the job done. https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/%3foutputType=amp


All the teaching of the world is not enough when there are few role models, low expectations, and - the horror!- the g-word???


I actually have come to the conclusion that the tests are culturally biased. I was reading an article about academic “skills” v content knowledge. It gave the example of people asked to answer questions after reading or being told a story about a baseball game. It was like “A hit a single to right field, B struck out, C hit a double to left, etc”. The people who could answer the questions best and remember the story and details from the story were the people who knew the most about baseball before reading the story, not the people who were the “best” readers. No test only tests “skills.” They inevitably also test content knowledge that the test makers “expect” to be accessible to kids of that age - generally based on middle class white cultural expectations. Anyway, I’ve been following this for a while, not professionally, and that’s what I’ve come to believe. It’s hidden tests of content knowledge that higher SES kids are getting at home, on trips, on vacation, at camps, etc.


I agree. I teach in a high FARMS school and the stuff we see on tests is very culturally biased. A passage about sleep away camp (or camping), then a passage about American football, then one about making pumpkin pie. They are written as though everyone has experience with those topics. If they don’t have the background knowledge on those topics then they’re already at a disadvantage on those assessments. It’s not like sleepaway camp, football and pumpkin pie are all part of the curriculum, so they’re being tested on content knowledge. They’re being tested on skills unrelated to content knowledge and the assessments don’t provide a level playing field.