It's not "very expensive." It's in the budget. APS already approved this money.

A bigger waste of money is spending $150 million+ on the whole damn project and then not giving it parking. What a waste.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posting from AEM and a variety of emails going around the neighborhood. Here is the full email from Erik Gutshall:

You may receive a formal reply from Chair Garvey on behalf of the entire Board, but because this is an issue I care deeply about and recognizing that I may have a different take than my colleagues, I wanted to clarify my approach:

NEED FOR PARKING: I think it's safe to say that not one Board Member wants the CC to be under-parked, which I will define as an insuffucient number of spaces that drivers find themselves with no other viable option than driving (see TDM below), but no access to a reasonably available space. "reasonably available" does not mean free, or within a 1-block radius. It includes market rate fees, whether incorporated as a compensation benefit or not, and walkable distance can include up to 1/2 mile and certainly within 1/4 mile. Need for parking is not the same as demand for parking. Drivers will always gobble up free and convenient parking, as was the model for APS until relatively recently.

AVAILABLE PARKING (on-street): I support the notion that every household should have access to parking within walking distance of their home. Sometimes parking is free (or very low-cost) and sometimes it has a cost, usually depending on how the housing was developed, with space limitations per household increasingly more common. Some amount of parking for staff, faculty, students and visitors should be accommodated on neighborhood streets. Just as I would expect neighbors to reject the notion that all parking can be accommodated in the neighborhood, I reject the notion that the neighborhood can't support any of the needed parking.

AVAILABLE PARKING (nearby garages): Consistent with #1 above, nearby available parking in existing garages can and should be used to satisfy parking needs for CC.

TRANSPORTATION DEMAND MANAGEMENT (TDM): Arlington has had great success with using TDMs to lower the demand for parking throughout the County, despite constant protests that "it'll never work." I respect that staff/faculty may have different habits than a typical office commuter, but I have not seen any analysis that demonstrates barriers that can not be overcome. Guaranteed Ride Home was created to address one common barrier for all commuters. I support further exploring the efficacy of APS TDM measures to encourage walking, biking, transit use and carpooling for commuting.

NEW PARKING (on-street): I do not support "wishful planning" to hope that parking just takes care of itself. To the extent that items 1-4 still leave a deficit of needed parking, I support exploring adding on-street parking with measures that could include angled parking on surrounding streets, esp Walter Reed Dr, 9th St S, and Highland St (convert to one-way).

NEW PARKING (on-site): The very last option that I could support would be constructing very expensive, permanent parking underground at the CC. However, if all of the above failed to accommodate truly needed parking, I would be compelled to support structured parking. Frankly, I think this is unlikely to come to pass, but my mind is open, provided all the other options are fully explored.

My hope is that the only "machine" driving our decisions will be sound policy. I appreciate you feel worn down. I think that speaks to your passion and commitment, in honor of which, I have taken this time to share with you my thinking.

Thank you,

Erik Gutshall (he/him)
Vice Chair, Arlington County Board

Let’s all go and park in front of Eric’s house. He is a nut if he thinks a bunch of arlington boomers are going to agree “reasonable” parking is up to 1/2 mile from your house.

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

Because providing ZERO on-site parking for a site with 2400 students in a small neighborhood bookended on the other end by a community center and 1800 additional students plus staff would create a traffic NIGHTMARE. On-site parking doesn't have to be free - you can charge staff to park. But let's face it: how many 5 year olds in reality are actually walking one mile to and from school? or even 1/2 mile to and from school? EVERY day, rain or shine, snow or wind?

And what about visitors? and users of the public library?

Very few, I'm sure. But we as a county have accepted the 1-mile marker as a measure of "walkability" because busing is expensive. We had to draw the line somewhere in the name of fiscal responsibility, so we drew it there even though it's not realistic for those actual students and their families. Building extensive parking at the CC site would be very expensive, so the line might be drawn at asking teachers to park in nearby garages or on neighborhood streets. Is that an ideal situation? Nope. But neither is asking kindergartners to "walk" a mile to school every day. This is the reality in Arlington in 2020. There are no perfect options.

Anonymous wrote:I actually think this is a long game to force it to become a neighborhood school. They know the surrounding neighborhood will revolt if they call it a neighborhood school and refuse to build facilities equal to the other schools. They don't want to spend the money to do that but do have a hs-wide crowding issue. If they don't build parking, then when they can't get enough kids to go there willingly they can site under-utilization of capacity, over crowding at other schools and lack of parking as a reason to turn it into a neighborhood school.

This also avoids complaints from the rest of South Arlington that making the CC neighborhood pulls out many of the high income communities from Wakefield. Again - using under utilization and lack of parking as a reason it has to become neighborhood and crying that housing patterns aren't their fault.

I’m not so cynical to think this is a planned outcome. But if the CC site can’t be filled with volunteers, APS will have little choice but to look for conscripts. And that would be a real problem for Wakefield’s demographics.

I actually think this is a long game to force it to become a neighborhood school. They know the surrounding neighborhood will revolt if they call it a neighborhood school and refuse to build facilities equal to the other schools. They don't want to spend the money to do that but do have a hs-wide crowding issue. If they don't build parking, then when they can't get enough kids to go there willingly they can site under-utilization of capacity, over crowding at other schools and lack of parking as a reason to turn it into a neighborhood school.

This also avoids complaints from the rest of South Arlington that making the CC neighborhood pulls out many of the high income communities from Wakefield. Again - using under utilization and lack of parking as a reason it has to become neighborhood and crying that housing patterns aren't their fault.

Here's an old ArlNow article. Summary: there is a temp fire station at HB right now. That gets demoed and the school gets a field and 100 parking spaces in 2022. In the meantime, APS is leasing parking directly across the street.

So, an actual, concrete plan, with a lease and a defined end. Not at all the same.

https://www.arlnow.com/2016/07/06/h-b-woodlawn-parents-worried-about-temporary-fire-station-plan/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP above: Just out of curiosity, how do you think north Arlington would react if they got rid of all the parking at Yorktown and built another school there instead?

HB in North ARlington has no parking. Did that outrage you?

DP: The Heights is on an actual transit corridor and houses less than 800 students plus staff. The outrage there involves accessibility for the Shriver program. And yes, there should always be at least some parking for visitors to come during the day - parents need to have IEP meetings, pick-up sick kids, drop-off kids after medical appointments, bring all that food for staff appreciation days...

Anonymous wrote:Where does Gutshall live? Unless he is affected by the volume of street parking he is proposing his position is really disturbing.

He won't be impacted by the street parking.
He does - or at least did - have a student at Arlington Tech; so he should know better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posting from AEM and a variety of emails going around the neighborhood. Here is the full email from Erik Gutshall:

You may receive a formal reply from Chair Garvey on behalf of the entire Board, but because this is an issue I care deeply about and recognizing that I may have a different take than my colleagues, I wanted to clarify my approach:

NEED FOR PARKING: I think it's safe to say that not one Board Member wants the CC to be under-parked, which I will define as an insuffucient number of spaces that drivers find themselves with no other viable option than driving (see TDM below), but no access to a reasonably available space. "reasonably available" does not mean free, or within a 1-block radius. It includes market rate fees, whether incorporated as a compensation benefit or not, and walkable distance can include up to 1/2 mile and certainly within 1/4 mile. Need for parking is not the same as demand for parking. Drivers will always gobble up free and convenient parking, as was the model for APS until relatively recently.

AVAILABLE PARKING (on-street): I support the notion that every household should have access to parking within walking distance of their home. Sometimes parking is free (or very low-cost) and sometimes it has a cost, usually depending on how the housing was developed, with space limitations per household increasingly more common. Some amount of parking for staff, faculty, students and visitors should be accommodated on neighborhood streets. Just as I would expect neighbors to reject the notion that all parking can be accommodated in the neighborhood, I reject the notion that the neighborhood can't support any of the needed parking.

AVAILABLE PARKING (nearby garages): Consistent with #1 above, nearby available parking in existing garages can and should be used to satisfy parking needs for CC.

TRANSPORTATION DEMAND MANAGEMENT (TDM): Arlington has had great success with using TDMs to lower the demand for parking throughout the County, despite constant protests that "it'll never work." I respect that staff/faculty may have different habits than a typical office commuter, but I have not seen any analysis that demonstrates barriers that can not be overcome. Guaranteed Ride Home was created to address one common barrier for all commuters. I support further exploring the efficacy of APS TDM measures to encourage walking, biking, transit use and carpooling for commuting.

NEW PARKING (on-street): I do not support "wishful planning" to hope that parking just takes care of itself. To the extent that items 1-4 still leave a deficit of needed parking, I support exploring adding on-street parking with measures that could include angled parking on surrounding streets, esp Walter Reed Dr, 9th St S, and Highland St (convert to one-way).

NEW PARKING (on-site): The very last option that I could support would be constructing very expensive, permanent parking underground at the CC. However, if all of the above failed to accommodate truly needed parking, I would be compelled to support structured parking. Frankly, I think this is unlikely to come to pass, but my mind is open, provided all the other options are fully explored.

My hope is that the only "machine" driving our decisions will be sound policy. I appreciate you feel worn down. I think that speaks to your passion and commitment, in honor of which, I have taken this time to share with you my thinking.

Thank you,

Erik Gutshall (he/him)
Vice Chair, Arlington County Board

Let’s all go and park in front of Eric’s house. He is a nut if he thinks a bunch of arlington boomers are going to agree “reasonable” parking is up to 1/2 mile from your house.

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

Because providing ZERO on-site parking for a site with 2400 students in a small neighborhood bookended on the other end by a community center and 1800 additional students plus staff would create a traffic NIGHTMARE. On-site parking doesn't have to be free - you can charge staff to park. But let's face it: how many 5 year olds in reality are actually walking one mile to and from school? or even 1/2 mile to and from school? EVERY day, rain or shine, snow or wind?

And what about visitors? and users of the public library?

"The entire concept of the Career Center is based on the idea that over a thousand kids will willingly attend the school. If there is no parking, its hard to get to, you have no realistic access to sports, music, extracurricular because you can't actually get back to your home school, the teachers are constantly turning over, leaving for other schools, and unable to build up unique programs due to lack of continuity, who is going to go there??"

+1000

Clapping.

I don't get the thinking that all of Arlington's budget and environmental problems have to get solved on the back of this school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP above: Just out of curiosity, how do you think north Arlington would react if they got rid of all the parking at Yorktown and built another school there instead?

HB in North ARlington has no parking. Did that outrage you?

APS has negotiated a short-term lease for parking directly across the street from HB for teachers, and is planning to build that school it's own parking soon. That's not a future "phase 2" that may or may not happen (as at CC), but an actual plan that will happen in the near-term. And, they negotiated the parking lease to cover the entire time until parking exists. HB also has 700 students vs. 2000+, so yes, my outrage is fine, thanks.

Do you have confirmation that APS is actually going to build HB its own parking? Please provide it. I have not heard that.

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

1. This isn't a particularly centrally located area, it is no where near a metro. The bus rides up Columbia pike can be long and cumbersome with frequent stops. Bus service along Columbia Pike has been decreased. And the county/Army are about to rip up the road between the Pentagon and Columbia pike as part of the cemetery expansion. Bottom line commuting via public transportation will be too time consuming to be a viable option for many.

2. Many teacher and staff don't live in Arlington (can't afford to) and could not easily commute via public transportation even if they wanted to. We are talking teachers who live in Loudoun County, in Maryland, in Prince William County. These people don't want to add 20 -30 minutes to their day circling the neighborhood looking for parking and then walking to the school.
Teachers often have to carry lots of papers/heavy things back and forth between their class and their car.
Lack of dedicated parking impacts their willingness to work at specific schools. Lack of parking negatively impacts teacher retention and hiring. This has already been an issue at Fleet for the same reason.

3. Other Arlington schools do offer parking. So teachers can take a job at Fleet or the CCHS just to get in the door with APS and then request a transfer to another Arlington school that does offer parking. This imposes higher turnover rate, less experienced teachers and less teacher stability on the students of those schools compared to the rest of the County.

4. Substitute teachers are at a premium and won't work at schools that don't offer parking. Again this is already a problem at Fleet. What will the school do without a viable pool of subs. How will that impact student instruction.

5. There isn't alot of neighborhood parking and that particular neighborhood also has to absorb parking from Fleet which was purposely built under parked, TJ Middle School and TJ Community Center. The site in question is the Career Center High School, Montessori Elementary school and a County Library. There is not enough street parking in that neighborhood to absorb parking from 4 different schools and 2 different community buildings. So where will people go?

6. The entire concept of CTE requires kids to be able to get from their other school to the CCHS and then back to their home school during the day. Some parents have said that the bus schedule does not work to make the classes they want/need and they wait until their kids are driving age and able to go back and forth between the Career center and their home high school via their own transportation. Removing parking serves as a barrier to kids attending CTE classes.

7. Arlington Tech is hemorrhaging kids who cannot make their class schedule and busing work to get back to their home school for extra curricular, music, and sports. Some kids are willing to suck it up and stay until they are able to drive under the belief that it will be easier once they can drive. If the logistics of going to school there don't allow kids to participate in activities at their home school for the whole of their high school experience, less kids are going to volunteer to go to school there.

8. teachers and students could possible park in private garages for a fee. This imposes a cost on teachers and students only at that school vs. additional availability at other schools. Again students and teachers have the option to move elsewhere and will over something like an imposed extra cost.

The entire concept of the Career Center is based on the idea that over a thousand kids will willingly attend the school. If there is no parking, its hard to get to, you have no realistic access to sports, music, extracurricular because you can't actually get back to your home school, the teachers are constantly turning over, leaving for other schools, and unable to build up unique programs due to lack of continuity, who is going to go there??

If Arlington spends millions on a bet that 2,000 kids are willing to go there and they aren't, what happens? Who gets forced there? Or have we spent ridiculous amounts of money on a school that sits half empty with constant teacher turnover cause the county can't force anyone to attend/work there.

Oh, but I am mad that they put the Shriver program in the basement of that building with poor ADA access and also apparently had to raise the entire gym floor after it was built because they built it one step down so it was not accessible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP above: Just out of curiosity, how do you think north Arlington would react if they got rid of all the parking at Yorktown and built another school there instead?

HB in North ARlington has no parking. Did that outrage you?

APS has negotiated a short-term lease for parking directly across the street from HB for teachers, and is planning to build that school it's own parking soon. That's not a future "phase 2" that may or may not happen (as at CC), but an actual plan that will happen in the near-term. And, they negotiated the parking lease to cover the entire time until parking exists. HB also has 700 students vs. 2000+, so yes, my outrage is fine, thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posting from AEM and a variety of emails going around the neighborhood. Here is the full email from Erik Gutshall:

You may receive a formal reply from Chair Garvey on behalf of the entire Board, but because this is an issue I care deeply about and recognizing that I may have a different take than my colleagues, I wanted to clarify my approach:

NEED FOR PARKING: I think it's safe to say that not one Board Member wants the CC to be under-parked, which I will define as an insuffucient number of spaces that drivers find themselves with no other viable option than driving (see TDM below), but no access to a reasonably available space. "reasonably available" does not mean free, or within a 1-block radius. It includes market rate fees, whether incorporated as a compensation benefit or not, and walkable distance can include up to 1/2 mile and certainly within 1/4 mile. Need for parking is not the same as demand for parking. Drivers will always gobble up free and convenient parking, as was the model for APS until relatively recently.

AVAILABLE PARKING (on-street): I support the notion that every household should have access to parking within walking distance of their home. Sometimes parking is free (or very low-cost) and sometimes it has a cost, usually depending on how the housing was developed, with space limitations per household increasingly more common. Some amount of parking for staff, faculty, students and visitors should be accommodated on neighborhood streets. Just as I would expect neighbors to reject the notion that all parking can be accommodated in the neighborhood, I reject the notion that the neighborhood can't support any of the needed parking.

AVAILABLE PARKING (nearby garages): Consistent with #1 above, nearby available parking in existing garages can and should be used to satisfy parking needs for CC.

TRANSPORTATION DEMAND MANAGEMENT (TDM): Arlington has had great success with using TDMs to lower the demand for parking throughout the County, despite constant protests that "it'll never work." I respect that staff/faculty may have different habits than a typical office commuter, but I have not seen any analysis that demonstrates barriers that can not be overcome. Guaranteed Ride Home was created to address one common barrier for all commuters. I support further exploring the efficacy of APS TDM measures to encourage walking, biking, transit use and carpooling for commuting.

NEW PARKING (on-street): I do not support "wishful planning" to hope that parking just takes care of itself. To the extent that items 1-4 still leave a deficit of needed parking, I support exploring adding on-street parking with measures that could include angled parking on surrounding streets, esp Walter Reed Dr, 9th St S, and Highland St (convert to one-way).

NEW PARKING (on-site): The very last option that I could support would be constructing very expensive, permanent parking underground at the CC. However, if all of the above failed to accommodate truly needed parking, I would be compelled to support structured parking. Frankly, I think this is unlikely to come to pass, but my mind is open, provided all the other options are fully explored.

My hope is that the only "machine" driving our decisions will be sound policy. I appreciate you feel worn down. I think that speaks to your passion and commitment, in honor of which, I have taken this time to share with you my thinking.

Thank you,

Erik Gutshall (he/him)
Vice Chair, Arlington County Board

Let’s all go and park in front of Eric’s house. He is a nut if he thinks a bunch of arlington boomers are going to agree “reasonable” parking is up to 1/2 mile from your house.

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

Because if this were anything other than a school they would be required by law to provide more parking. Imagine if someone wanted to build a medium-sized office building on the site where hundreds of people would come to work every day. Arlington zoning laws would require they provide adequate parking rather than just dump those cars on a scarce public resource (i.e. street parking). The CC BLPC presentations on the APS website even acknowledge this and estimate that zoning ordinances would ordinarily require something like 400 or 500 parking spaces (I think everyone agrees that would be prohibitive, but there's a lot of options between 400 and zero).

Gutshall's email is a big deal because he just doesn't feel like spending the money. For some reason he seems to think it's not that important, and the consequences to the program and the neighborhood don't bother him. Compare that to some of the other gold-plated facilities around the county he's supported (Lubber Run CC, Aquatics center) and you start to wonder what's different about this site.

The lack of parking also has a long term impact on recruiting staff to work there. If all schools followed this model probably wouldn't be an issue (schools in Manhattan I suppose don't offer parking). But it is not the norm in APS or surrounding districts for teachers to park at off-site garages or have to wander the neighborhood looking for street parking. They have a good example in Fleet. That school was built with insufficient parking and reports are that they are having trouble getting substitutes to work at the school because of the parking situation. Teachers don't know from one month to the next if they'll get a parking spot. How long will good teachers put up with that before they go looking for a better deal somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:To PP above: Just out of curiosity, how do you think north Arlington would react if they got rid of all the parking at Yorktown and built another school there instead?

HB in North ARlington has no parking. Did that outrage you?