Anonymous wrote:It's 7th of November! How much more notice do you and your dad need? This is some crazy behavior with 7 weeks ahead? WTF?

The issue was not the notice -- clearly she gave notice.

The issue was she had told us she would spend the holidays with us and then sent this itinerary info out of nowhere with no explanation as to why she had changed her plans.

In my world, it's respectful to explain why you're bailing on someone, or even to just say, "I know we had agreed to spend the holidays together, but DH and I have decided to go on vacation instead. Let's figure out another time to get together!

This email was literally:

Subject: November/december trips

Body:

Flight info: xxxx
Hotel info: xxxx

- sister

Anonymous wrote:Yep, she hates you and parents. I can see why. You treat her like dirt.

I treat her like dirt for wanting her to actually maybe spend some modicum of time with my parents and me? We see her once a year, at best. If I don't call her, she never calls me. When I do call her, she talks for hours about herself.

But I'm the one who treats her like dirt?

Would you rather she just not show up?
How would you have liked her to handle this?
Should have she agreed to come (if she knew she would back out?) No. But. Perhaps your dad and you don't take "no thanks" for an answer. Perhaps she didn't want to get into a fight after your dad just had surgery. Perhaps she doesn't like to be made to feel selfish for choosing holiday plans that aren't up to your standards.

Or. Maybe something changed and her DH really wanted or needed this trip. Maybe tickets were already bought and couldn't be refunded.

You jump to conclusions and label your sister but can't see the irony of how you and your dad are treating her.

She is not an 8 year old your dad can force his wishes onto. I suspect that your parents have been guilt tripping you both into doing things they want you to for years. For you it is a way to please your parents and maybe you enjoy that. For your sister it likely feels suffocating, demeaning and controlling.

It's 7th of November! How much more notice do you and your dad need? This is some crazy behavior with 7 weeks ahead? WTF?

‘Sis, I am confused. I thought you and DH were coming here for the Holidays. What happened? XXoo Other sis

Yep, she hates you and parents. I can see why. You treat her like dirt.

Hm.. I can see your point, but if she was there for his surgery and all is well, this is nothing but emotional blackmail on his part. For the holidays? So Xmas and Thanksgiving? Nothing but blackmail.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. That's tough that she didn't provide at least some notice.

That said, it's not reasonable to issue a summons for another adult's time. An invitation is great, yes. An idea for everyone to be together, yes. But at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with another adult making a decision with his or her time and how they want to spend the little vacation they have.

For all you know, the marriage is under strain, and the choice was made to regroup the marriage with a nice vacation rather than the stress of family at the holidays.

What? "The Holidays" typically means the Christmas/New Years time frame, in which case she let them know 7 weeks in advance. And even if it refers to Thanksgiving, that's three weeks from today.

He meant Thanksgiving and Christmas. She said she’d be there and then just sent flight info to us with nothing else even in the email.

BOTH major holidays? What about your sisters husbands family? Maybe I’m biased because my MIL is always saying “it’s very important to me that we are all together for Christmas this year” and I always want to respond “yes, my own mother says the exact same thing though, you realize?”

They won't see his family either. They're going to Europe both times.

A little weird then for sure. It sounds like this is their yearly tradition, no? Since they do it every year? It would have been better if she had foregone their tradition for one year but just like your father has a vision of the holidays- so does your sister and her husband. Agree with PPs that say you can’t summon other adults over the holidays. Presumably your parents did what they wanted for the holidays when you and your sister were young- and now you and your sister get to do what each of you want. For you, that’s going home to your family of origin. For her it isn’t. It sucks when values don’t line up but it’s not uncommon. The only thing I can get behind is that your sister shouldn’t have told your dad yes and then went back on her word. (Also why is she group emailing her hotel info? Does anyone care about it?!)

Yeah, we don't care what hotel she's in. I like to know flight info, but her hotel doesn't matter to me.

They go on the same trip every year. A little weird to me, since they don't know anyone there so it's not like they're visiting friends, but to each their own. My real issue is how she went back on her word without any explanation. But you're all right that I can't force her to do something.

It sounds like they have built their own little tradition and it means a lot to them. I like going to the same beach town every year as soon as school lets out. I would be loathe to cancel our little tradition because an older relative wanted me to visit them that exact week instead. Even if that older relative were my own dad. But- I wouldn’t have led him on and pretended I’d visit that week like your sister did

They are going on TWO trips, over Thanksgiving and Christmas. As a childless couple, not bound to school vacation times, they have chosen the busiest and most expensive times of the year to travel, probably because they don't like their families very much.

This. Op your sister has a problem with your parents (and possibly you). This clearly isn’t a one-off situation. If your parents (or you) want a better relationship with sister, then you need to try to repair it (your own relationship only). If you don’t, then don’t.

The place to start is not telling her she is selfish and a liar and making her feel badly for actually planning a holiday trip she and her DH obvsiously enjoy.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. That's tough that she didn't provide at least some notice.

That said, it's not reasonable to issue a summons for another adult's time. An invitation is great, yes. An idea for everyone to be together, yes. But at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with another adult making a decision with his or her time and how they want to spend the little vacation they have.

For all you know, the marriage is under strain, and the choice was made to regroup the marriage with a nice vacation rather than the stress of family at the holidays.

What? "The Holidays" typically means the Christmas/New Years time frame, in which case she let them know 7 weeks in advance. And even if it refers to Thanksgiving, that's three weeks from today.

He meant Thanksgiving and Christmas. She said she’d be there and then just sent flight info to us with nothing else even in the email.

BOTH major holidays? What about your sisters husbands family? Maybe I’m biased because my MIL is always saying “it’s very important to me that we are all together for Christmas this year” and I always want to respond “yes, my own mother says the exact same thing though, you realize?”

They won't see his family either. They're going to Europe both times.

A little weird then for sure. It sounds like this is their yearly tradition, no? Since they do it every year? It would have been better if she had foregone their tradition for one year but just like your father has a vision of the holidays- so does your sister and her husband. Agree with PPs that say you can’t summon other adults over the holidays. Presumably your parents did what they wanted for the holidays when you and your sister were young- and now you and your sister get to do what each of you want. For you, that’s going home to your family of origin. For her it isn’t. It sucks when values don’t line up but it’s not uncommon. The only thing I can get behind is that your sister shouldn’t have told your dad yes and then went back on her word. (Also why is she group emailing her hotel info? Does anyone care about it?!)

Yeah, we don't care what hotel she's in. I like to know flight info, but her hotel doesn't matter to me.

They go on the same trip every year. A little weird to me, since they don't know anyone there so it's not like they're visiting friends, but to each their own. My real issue is how she went back on her word without any explanation. But you're all right that I can't force her to do something.

It sounds like they have built their own little tradition and it means a lot to them. I like going to the same beach town every year as soon as school lets out. I would be loathe to cancel our little tradition because an older relative wanted me to visit them that exact week instead. Even if that older relative were my own dad. But- I wouldn’t have led him on and pretended I’d visit that week like your sister did

They are going on TWO trips, over Thanksgiving and Christmas. As a childless couple, not bound to school vacation times, they have chosen the busiest and most expensive times of the year to travel, probably because they don't like their families very much.

This. Op your sister has a problem with your parents (and possibly you). This clearly isn’t a one-off situation. If your parents (or you) want a better relationship with sister, then you need to try to repair it (your own relationship only). If you don’t, then don’t.

If adults would just learn to respect the words "No thank you" Holidays and their lives would be much better.

You know the plans that never fail? Ones you don't make. Stop trying to get everyone to abide by your Hallmark Happy Holiday and perhaps your family would want to spend time with you. Its the forced activities and guilt that pushes people away.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. That's tough that she didn't provide at least some notice.

That said, it's not reasonable to issue a summons for another adult's time. An invitation is great, yes. An idea for everyone to be together, yes. But at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with another adult making a decision with his or her time and how they want to spend the little vacation they have.

For all you know, the marriage is under strain, and the choice was made to regroup the marriage with a nice vacation rather than the stress of family at the holidays.

What? "The Holidays" typically means the Christmas/New Years time frame, in which case she let them know 7 weeks in advance. And even if it refers to Thanksgiving, that's three weeks from today.

He meant Thanksgiving and Christmas. She said she’d be there and then just sent flight info to us with nothing else even in the email.

BOTH major holidays? What about your sisters husbands family? Maybe I’m biased because my MIL is always saying “it’s very important to me that we are all together for Christmas this year” and I always want to respond “yes, my own mother says the exact same thing though, you realize?”

They won't see his family either. They're going to Europe both times.

A little weird then for sure. It sounds like this is their yearly tradition, no? Since they do it every year? It would have been better if she had foregone their tradition for one year but just like your father has a vision of the holidays- so does your sister and her husband. Agree with PPs that say you can’t summon other adults over the holidays. Presumably your parents did what they wanted for the holidays when you and your sister were young- and now you and your sister get to do what each of you want. For you, that’s going home to your family of origin. For her it isn’t. It sucks when values don’t line up but it’s not uncommon. The only thing I can get behind is that your sister shouldn’t have told your dad yes and then went back on her word. (Also why is she group emailing her hotel info? Does anyone care about it?!)

Yeah, we don't care what hotel she's in. I like to know flight info, but her hotel doesn't matter to me.

They go on the same trip every year. A little weird to me, since they don't know anyone there so it's not like they're visiting friends, but to each their own. My real issue is how she went back on her word without any explanation. But you're all right that I can't force her to do something.

It sounds like they have built their own little tradition and it means a lot to them. I like going to the same beach town every year as soon as school lets out. I would be loathe to cancel our little tradition because an older relative wanted me to visit them that exact week instead. Even if that older relative were my own dad. But- I wouldn’t have led him on and pretended I’d visit that week like your sister did

They are going on TWO trips, over Thanksgiving and Christmas. As a childless couple, not bound to school vacation times, they have chosen the busiest and most expensive times of the year to travel, probably because they don't like their families very much.

And so what if they don't? Who cares?
Sister likely felt cornered and had to agree to pacify daddy.
Then when she thought about it, decided 'hell to the no, i will choose what i do" and went ahead with the trip.

OR perhaps her DH had already purhcase the tickets for their ANNUAL vacations and it was already a done deal.

Just let it go. I hate these forced 'happy holidays' people try to push down everyones throat

It's your sister. Do you have a close relationship with her? Without being accusatory, ask her if she remembers what she told her dad when he was sick? It's her job to straighten out your dad. Maybe it was a miscommunication.

Firm believer here that adults get to choose what they do for the holidays and anytime really.
Can you have an opinion? Sure. But you don't get a vote and don't have the right to make other adults feel guilty about what is important to them.

I hate the guilt card that parents try to pull on adult children. It is rude, selfish and so off-putting.
Why does 'your' vision of how the holidays should be spent trump anyone elses?
Who wants her their if she is only doing it to pacify your dad?
Just enjoy the trip that you want to make and let your sister enjoy her holiday in Europe.

I love my parents but would absolutely not be forced into a holiday hostage situation with a guilt trip put on me by my parents. That would be a bit no go for me.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. That's tough that she didn't provide at least some notice.

That said, it's not reasonable to issue a summons for another adult's time. An invitation is great, yes. An idea for everyone to be together, yes. But at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with another adult making a decision with his or her time and how they want to spend the little vacation they have.

For all you know, the marriage is under strain, and the choice was made to regroup the marriage with a nice vacation rather than the stress of family at the holidays.

What? "The Holidays" typically means the Christmas/New Years time frame, in which case she let them know 7 weeks in advance. And even if it refers to Thanksgiving, that's three weeks from today.

He meant Thanksgiving and Christmas. She said she’d be there and then just sent flight info to us with nothing else even in the email.

BOTH major holidays? What about your sisters husbands family? Maybe I’m biased because my MIL is always saying “it’s very important to me that we are all together for Christmas this year” and I always want to respond “yes, my own mother says the exact same thing though, you realize?”

They won't see his family either. They're going to Europe both times.

A little weird then for sure. It sounds like this is their yearly tradition, no? Since they do it every year? It would have been better if she had foregone their tradition for one year but just like your father has a vision of the holidays- so does your sister and her husband. Agree with PPs that say you can’t summon other adults over the holidays. Presumably your parents did what they wanted for the holidays when you and your sister were young- and now you and your sister get to do what each of you want. For you, that’s going home to your family of origin. For her it isn’t. It sucks when values don’t line up but it’s not uncommon. The only thing I can get behind is that your sister shouldn’t have told your dad yes and then went back on her word. (Also why is she group emailing her hotel info? Does anyone care about it?!)

Yeah, we don't care what hotel she's in. I like to know flight info, but her hotel doesn't matter to me.

They go on the same trip every year. A little weird to me, since they don't know anyone there so it's not like they're visiting friends, but to each their own. My real issue is how she went back on her word without any explanation. But you're all right that I can't force her to do something.

It sounds like they have built their own little tradition and it means a lot to them. I like going to the same beach town every year as soon as school lets out. I would be loathe to cancel our little tradition because an older relative wanted me to visit them that exact week instead. Even if that older relative were my own dad. But- I wouldn’t have led him on and pretended I’d visit that week like your sister did

They are going on TWO trips, over Thanksgiving and Christmas. As a childless couple, not bound to school vacation times, they have chosen the busiest and most expensive times of the year to travel, probably because they don't like their families very much.

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Anonymous wrote:My dad had major surgery this year. Luckily he is recovering and should be ok. However he said it’s important to him for everyone to be together this year for the holidays. My sister said she’d be there, but out of nowhere just sent us flight info for a vacation she’s taking with her husband. This isn’t some once in a lifetime trip; it’s a trip they take every year.

I just feel terrible for my dad, who she didn’t even give advance warning that she had changed her plans.

This is the advance warning that she’s changed her plans.

+1 How much notice is enough for you? And don't meddle in it. That's between your sister and your dad.

She sent an email with the subject line "november/december trips." Then there was flight and hotel info. No explanation as to why she decided to travel rather than be with her family.

Does she owe us an explanation? No.

Would it have been the respectful thing to do? Yes.

It sounds like she's not close to the family and none of us know why. She probably felt guilted into agreeing to the holiday plans and then as your dad got better she rethought it. She should have mentioned it to your parents (is it possible she did but you don't know that?) but perhaps her reason for not doing so goes into why she isn't close to the family in the first place (like, maybe they would have tried to hard-sell or guilt her into not going on the trip). Bottom line is that your dad hoped that the family rift -- calling it a rift because sis seems so distant -- could be mended through a decree that everyone come home from Christmas, but he's going to have to take a different tack if that truly is his goal.

Yeah, I don't know why she isn't close to us. My parents both said they found out she had changed her plans via this email and they don't know why she changed her mind.

Your parents must be in deep denial. She is making a statement with those trips. I will guess she is hurt and she does not want to play happy family.

This. You could easily be talking about my DH. He sees his parents infrequently- has a terrible terrible relationship with them (particularly
His dad, but the problems with his dad have caused probs with his mom as well). His parents are equally as responsible for this rift (far more so than DH IMO but am trying to be fair) but are in denial and refuse to do anything to help heal the rift either. DH has tried. DHs brother and sister are in denial and guilt DH over it- DH has tried to explain but they just pile on and play the “poor mom and dad waaah” card, so he has stopped trying. IMHO it is very possible (if not likely) that different siblings have different and unique relationships with the same parents. If there is a rift, both parties nearly always hold some part of the responsibility..

Which is a long way of saying “butt out and MYOB”. Your sister probably has good reason not to come- she and your parents will need to work on their relationship and it has nothing to do with you.