Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 13:22     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have a very outspoken friend in one of my friend groups. She has more than once said something like "he or she looks Jewish" if someone was asking for a description about someone I am not Jewish but another friend is and she confided in me that when x says this, she finds it kind of insulting because its the way she says it that implies its a very specific (and not so good) look. Is it worth saying something or is this in the politically correct bubble?


Yeah context matters as others have said. But she's not saying this about a guy wearing a yamulke and Talis on his way to shul. It's been used MULTIPLE TIMES, as a way to describe a random person.
Listen, I'm a proud Jew. But you CANNOT ignore the history behind this comment. When people say "looks Jewish," they are referencing a specific ashkenazi look, yes. HOWEVER please don't ignore that this was turned into a caricature and used in propoganda, not just by the Nazis but throughout history in a specifically derogatory manner, and in a manner that was used to perpetuate negative stereotypes, oppress/remove rights from Jews, and yes eventually mass slaughter them. So even if it's meant in a benign way, it is NOT ok and yes you should talk to her about it. It's unequivocally not ok, because even if she means no harm or thinks the person is pretty - this is what she's referencing - the caricature or stereotype.

If you want a little pop culture reference...look no further than Cabaret. It's one of the most shocking/off-putting moments in the show. When someone says "that's funny you don't look jewish," or "she looks Jewish" - THIS is what I hear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEhHeILa3HE


Ashkenazi Jew here.

Yes, of course it's been used in propaganda and by the Nazis to help them identify Jews to kill.

That doesn't mean that:

1. No one can talk about what MANY Jews look like in a benign way.

2. There are no similarities in how many Jews look. I hate that response because it devalues our history as an ethno-religious group. So many of us are Ashkenazi or Sephardic and I don't like people devaluing our identity or history by saying "oh Jews are such a melting pot and they all look different!"

I'm proud to be part of a group that has strong historical, ethnic, and religious bonds.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 13:19     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:We have a very outspoken friend in one of my friend groups. She has more than once said something like "he or she looks Jewish" if someone was asking for a description about someone I am not Jewish but another friend is and she confided in me that when x says this, she finds it kind of insulting because its the way she says it that implies its a very specific (and not so good) look. Is it worth saying something or is this in the politically correct bubble?


Yeah context matters as others have said. But she's not saying this about a guy wearing a yamulke and Talis on his way to shul. It's been used MULTIPLE TIMES, as a way to describe a random person.
Listen, I'm a proud Jew. But you CANNOT ignore the history behind this comment. When people say "looks Jewish," they are referencing a specific ashkenazi look, yes. HOWEVER please don't ignore that this was turned into a caricature and used in propoganda, not just by the Nazis but throughout history in a specifically derogatory manner, and in a manner that was used to perpetuate negative stereotypes, oppress/remove rights from Jews, and yes eventually mass slaughter them. So even if it's meant in a benign way, it is NOT ok and yes you should talk to her about it. It's unequivocally not ok, because even if she means no harm or thinks the person is pretty - this is what she's referencing - the caricature or stereotype.

If you want a little pop culture reference...look no further than Cabaret. It's one of the most shocking/off-putting moments in the show. When someone says "that's funny you don't look jewish," or "she looks Jewish" - THIS is what I hear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEhHeILa3HE
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:41     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:Funny story: I have been asked many, MANY times in my life if I am Jewish. I have pale skin and thick dark hair, which is wavy/curly if not straightened. I once went back and forth with someone who insisted I looked Jewish and that I must be mistaken. Life long Catholic from many generations of Catholics, Irish mom, middle eastern dad. Recently had to genetic testing during a pregnancy, which turned up some mutations specific to Ashkenazi Jewish people. Guess they were right.

Anyway, I don't identify as Jewish so I can't answer whether or not it would be offensive to someone who is Jewish - I have never been offended when asked.


That doesn't really tell you much. There have been various times in history where Jews have hidden their Jewishness to stay alive. Some went back to Judaism once the immediate threat passed, but many did not know. So, plenty of people who are Catholic, or Christian more broadly, more many generations were Jewish for many generations before that.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:36     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Funny story: I have been asked many, MANY times in my life if I am Jewish. I have pale skin and thick dark hair, which is wavy/curly if not straightened. I once went back and forth with someone who insisted I looked Jewish and that I must be mistaken. Life long Catholic from many generations of Catholics, Irish mom, middle eastern dad. Recently had to genetic testing during a pregnancy, which turned up some mutations specific to Ashkenazi Jewish people. Guess they were right.

Anyway, I don't identify as Jewish so I can't answer whether or not it would be offensive to someone who is Jewish - I have never been offended when asked.


Then you were just dumb for your entire life and wrapped up in what you thought whiteness was. Bc a middle eastern dad means other and not generally white european looking.


Exactly. Also, you should know that you're Jewish, whether you choose to identify as Jewish or not.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:35     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the speaker is Jewish it’s acceptable. If the speaker is not Jewish, they should avoid saying that outside of groups where they know EVERYONE very well.


This.

I’ve met Jews of every size and color and look. In general, it’s an offensive stereotype even though it also may apply to certain people (who IME have turned out to be —- surprise! — not Jewish.

It’s a stereotype.


Agreed. When non-Jewish people say this, they are referring to a certain look - dark curly hair, a prominent nose, an olive complexion. And in my experience it's never benign, they always mean something by it, and usually not something positive.

An acquaintance (non-Jewish) once used "jew them down" to describe a negotiation in front of me, and then was outraged and mad at me when I pointed out that it wasn't ok to use that expression. He "didn't mean anything by it" (except of course he did).


Ok, this is clearly different than acknowledging that many Jews look alike. We are an ethno-religious group, and many of us DO look alike. Please just admit that and stop it with the whole "all Jews look different" crap.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:32     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:I’m not Jewish, but if I were it would make me uncomfortable. I think some people just don’t realize how much they stereotype and think they are behaving perfectly normally

I get this a lot:
“Where are you from?”
-I’m Indian
“Oh really, you don’t look Indian. You’re very pretty.”

I never know what I’m supposed to say to that or how I’m expected to react.




WTF, you get this "a lot"?
FWIW I think Indian women are generally very pretty.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:28     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the speaker is Jewish it’s acceptable. If the speaker is not Jewish, they should avoid saying that outside of groups where they know EVERYONE very well.


This.

I’ve met Jews of every size and color and look. In general, it’s an offensive stereotype even though it also may apply to certain people (who IME have turned out to be —- surprise! — not Jewish.

It’s a stereotype.


Agreed. When non-Jewish people say this, they are referring to a certain look - dark curly hair, a prominent nose, an olive complexion. And in my experience it's never benign, they always mean something by it, and usually not something positive.

An acquaintance (non-Jewish) once used "jew them down" to describe a negotiation in front of me, and then was outraged and mad at me when I pointed out that it wasn't ok to use that expression. He "didn't mean anything by it" (except of course he did).
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:25     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Except the thing is MANY OF US DON'T look that different.

Not everything is this "oh it's just a huge melting pot" thing. Yes there's diversity in the Jewish population, but 10-11 million of the roughly 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi. We have physical similarities. THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

We have a strong history that binds us together. I'm not ashamed of looking Jewish. I'm not ashamed of looking at my family--and my people--and seeing physical similarities.

Us Ashkenazi Jews have such strong similarities that there is a genetic panel done during pregnancy called the Ashkenazi Jew panel.

We aren't Christians, who come from every country in the world. There are only 16 million of us, and we are clustered in a small number of countries.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 12:10     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:If the speaker is Jewish it’s acceptable. If the speaker is not Jewish, they should avoid saying that outside of groups where they know EVERYONE very well.


This.

I’ve met Jews of every size and color and look. In general, it’s an offensive stereotype even though it also may apply to certain people (who IME have turned out to be —- surprise! — not Jewish.

It’s a stereotype.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 11:55     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:Funny story: I have been asked many, MANY times in my life if I am Jewish. I have pale skin and thick dark hair, which is wavy/curly if not straightened. I once went back and forth with someone who insisted I looked Jewish and that I must be mistaken. Life long Catholic from many generations of Catholics, Irish mom, middle eastern dad. Recently had to genetic testing during a pregnancy, which turned up some mutations specific to Ashkenazi Jewish people. Guess they were right.

Anyway, I don't identify as Jewish so I can't answer whether or not it would be offensive to someone who is Jewish - I have never been offended when asked.


Then you were just dumb for your entire life and wrapped up in what you thought whiteness was. Bc a middle eastern dad means other and not generally white european looking.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 11:44     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
I’m so sad you’re looking at this as an insult. When I found out I was Jewish (long story), I was THRILLED, and stared at my face to see if I “looked” Jewish, trying to find “Jewish” attributes. Yes, I know Jews all look very different, but i looked anyway. That sounds ridiculous but I’m human and was hoping to find evidence of my lineage in the mirror. To be Jewish is a gift. If someone said I looked Jewish, I would be deeply honored.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 11:43     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Funny story: I have been asked many, MANY times in my life if I am Jewish. I have pale skin and thick dark hair, which is wavy/curly if not straightened. I once went back and forth with someone who insisted I looked Jewish and that I must be mistaken. Life long Catholic from many generations of Catholics, Irish mom, middle eastern dad. Recently had to genetic testing during a pregnancy, which turned up some mutations specific to Ashkenazi Jewish people. Guess they were right.

Anyway, I don't identify as Jewish so I can't answer whether or not it would be offensive to someone who is Jewish - I have never been offended when asked.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 11:42     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
That's not acceptable. It implies there is a Jewish look, like the Nazis tried to establish (hooked nose, etc). I have some blond, blue-eyed, straight nosed Jewish neighbors.

It's not the same thing as saying Asian, or Caucasian, or Black, etc... , where clearly there is a phenotype.


+1. If it's said by a non-Jew, I'd think it's an awkward and clueless comment.


-1. Like a PP mentioned, there is an Ashkenazi Jewish phenotype. It’s genetic. Plenty of Jews, who are not Nazis (!), recognize this.


I'm not jewish but I can recognize there is a phenotype and by recognizing that does not make me a racist. Admitting that is not a bad thing, being Jewish is not a bad thing, acting negatively and harboring anti-semetic feelings is.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 11:31     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
I'm Jewish, and I grew up in Europe in a much less Jewish (and more anti-semitic) environment than DC, where I live now. I have heard variants of this comment all my life - to me ("oh, I thought you would look more Jewishy" - I have blonde hair and green eyes) - and about others. I don't think it's acceptable. Even in its most benign form, such as the comment to me, it still suggests that you have views about what Jews look like. Jews are all different! And relatedly, Jews have all kinds of different political views, and have all kinds of jobs and are different in every kind of way. So I don't think it's meant to be offensive, but it's the kind of language people just don't need to use.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2019 11:31     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Depends how it's said. I'm from a very Jewish area and no one would be offended by that. In fact, I remember telling my mom I wanted to be Jewish when I was a little kid because they were the "chosen ones."

If you're in an area with few Jews, it might not be said like a compliment. Although I'm not sure my inlaws (in a rust belt state with 100% Christians) would even know what looking like a Jew means.