Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:51
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Money rolls in for med students, enough for them to pay off their loan. Not sure of the wisdom of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. We would all be better served by subsidizing starving artists/musicians and/or other creative professions.
I can't agree with you here. My nephew just started his residency in a major city. He's 300,000 in debt with a young son and his wife is a teacher. He makes $56,000 a year working round the clock plus a mortgage. Point is, the level of debt is crushing for a couple with advanced degrees in two noble professions.. Another anecdote is my husbands law partner's daughter is $500,000 in debt after med school (a combination of undergrad and med school). She is choosing to work in a low income area in the South for a number of years (10? not sure exactly) in order to be eligible for debt forgiveness. Those that sign up for the medical profession are not in it for the money - maybe someday - but it is a very long road if your parents are not able to shell out an additional $300 K.
Residency is part of medical school/licensing. He's making more than many others. It was his choice to go to an expensive school. He will make much more later on. Plus, if they could not afford a house, they should have waited. They make $100K combined, maybe more.
DP. $100,000 combined is not a lot of money in many areas, including DC. You clearly don't value doctors and what they contribute to society. Unlike you, I'd prefer to subsidize doctors than starving artists and musicians. By your logic about the doctors waiting if they can't afford a house, maybe arstists should pick a different career if being an artist doesn't pay enough. Why do we need to subsidize them, after all, it is their choice to become artists.
Residency is a short period of time after which doctors make an average of $200k. Some specialties make $500k+ If medical school costs go down salaries should too.
My 7 years of residency and fellowship didn't feel short.
But they were your choice! You chose that level of specialization in order to make more money or pursue a professional interest! You could have done something shorter if you wanted.
I hope you never need a doctor in a specialty that takes years of residency. I'm not a doctor and none of my kids have any interest in the medical field, but I do see the inequity in imputing parents' income and assets to someone who is in grad school, even grad students who are married and in their thirties.
And how exactly is this related to the idea that if medical school costs less specialists should make less money? I’m not seeing the connection here. A lot of professionals do important jobs and make big sacrifices, that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to make a huge sum.
Let be real. the training to become a doctor sucks alot... you have to incentivize people to go through this.. otherwise you wont have that cardio-thoracic surgeon you desperately need because who in the world would go through pre med, med school and 7+ years of 100 hour work weeks to learn the craft otherwise??? Would you be OK with not having access to his speciality if you needed it because I guarantee it that on one would do that for a salary of 100K or less... come on.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:50
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is also difficult to give one child an extra $300K for med school when there are other siblings. That imbalance of $$ could create lots of jealousy later on in life.
8:52 here. So far we are not seeing this with our 3 grown kids - #1 got his phd and we paid almost nothing for his education (other than some pocket money here and there), #2 we paid significantly more because he went to post college prof school, for #3, we will end up paying more than #1 and #2 combined because she is in med school. i suppose it's possible that kids 1 and 2 may resent little sis later on in life but, for now, $ is not on their radar. do you think it will happen later?
I would more likely happen if you spend all your money on kid one and then don't have enough to help the younger ones. After paying for undergrad for all three, I wouldn't have $900,000 if all three wanted to go to grad school for $300,000 each.
Yes, that's a totally different situation than my kids situation. Understandably so.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:34
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Cornell just announced that its medical school is now going to be debt-free.. do you think this will be a trend in top schools and/or expand to law or business?
Debt free to those who qualify for financial aid. They'll likely still consider parental income/assets to make financial aid determination. That still leaves a huge segment of potential students uncovered. Many parents tell their kids they are on their own for grad schools, and those students are on their own but still burdened with their parents' assets counting against them.
Aren't student kind of on their own after college? I never expected my parents to pay for grad school.
Yes. The point is it's ridiculous for colleges to count parental assets/income in determining financial resources of grown adults, including married adults.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:31
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:My respect for the professionals has gone down with them writing opioid prescriptions and the predatory billing
It is not a noble profession, the people are sharks like estate agents and corrupt cops. Nobody needs to think they are special just because they went to school
I think they are special because they might be able to save my life, not just because they went to school. Are there incompetent doctors? Yes. But I want the best of the best becoming doctors. I don't want potentially great doctors deterred by the increasing debt burden for med school. I feel the same way about teachers and teachers' salaries.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:29
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Money rolls in for med students, enough for them to pay off their loan. Not sure of the wisdom of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. We would all be better served by subsidizing starving artists/musicians and/or other creative professions.
I can't agree with you here. My nephew just started his residency in a major city. He's 300,000 in debt with a young son and his wife is a teacher. He makes $56,000 a year working round the clock plus a mortgage. Point is, the level of debt is crushing for a couple with advanced degrees in two noble professions.. Another anecdote is my husbands law partner's daughter is $500,000 in debt after med school (a combination of undergrad and med school). She is choosing to work in a low income area in the South for a number of years (10? not sure exactly) in order to be eligible for debt forgiveness. Those that sign up for the medical profession are not in it for the money - maybe someday - but it is a very long road if your parents are not able to shell out an additional $300 K.
Residency is part of medical school/licensing. He's making more than many others. It was his choice to go to an expensive school. He will make much more later on. Plus, if they could not afford a house, they should have waited. They make $100K combined, maybe more.
DP. $100,000 combined is not a lot of money in many areas, including DC. You clearly don't value doctors and what they contribute to society. Unlike you, I'd prefer to subsidize doctors than starving artists and musicians. By your logic about the doctors waiting if they can't afford a house, maybe arstists should pick a different career if being an artist doesn't pay enough. Why do we need to subsidize them, after all, it is their choice to become artists.
Residency is a short period of time after which doctors make an average of $200k. Some specialties make $500k+ If medical school costs go down salaries should too.
My 7 years of residency and fellowship didn't feel short.
But they were your choice! You chose that level of specialization in order to make more money or pursue a professional interest! You could have done something shorter if you wanted.
I hope you never need a doctor in a specialty that takes years of residency. I'm not a doctor and none of my kids have any interest in the medical field, but I do see the inequity in imputing parents' income and assets to someone who is in grad school, even grad students who are married and in their thirties.
And how exactly is this related to the idea that if medical school costs less specialists should make less money? I’m not seeing the connection here. A lot of professionals do important jobs and make big sacrifices, that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to make a huge sum.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:27
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is also difficult to give one child an extra $300K for med school when there are other siblings. That imbalance of $$ could create lots of jealousy later on in life.
8:52 here. So far we are not seeing this with our 3 grown kids - #1 got his phd and we paid almost nothing for his education (other than some pocket money here and there), #2 we paid significantly more because he went to post college prof school, for #3, we will end up paying more than #1 and #2 combined because she is in med school. i suppose it's possible that kids 1 and 2 may resent little sis later on in life but, for now, $ is not on their radar. do you think it will happen later?
I would more likely happen if you spend all your money on kid one and then don't have enough to help the younger ones. After paying for undergrad for all three, I wouldn't have $900,000 if all three wanted to go to grad school for $300,000 each.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 16:24
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Cornell just announced that its medical school is now going to be debt-free.. do you think this will be a trend in top schools and/or expand to law or business?
Debt free to those who qualify for financial aid. They'll likely still consider parental income/assets to make financial aid determination. That still leaves a huge segment of potential students uncovered. Many parents tell their kids they are on their own for grad schools, and those students are on their own but still burdened with their parents' assets counting against them.
This is totally true. My DS recently graduated from med school. I had to complete the FAFSA with our assets. He was borrowing tuition for all 4years.
I wonder if it is different at different schools?
I graduated in 2007 and did not have to include my parents information on the FAFSA. So I was able to take out federal loans for all 4 years. But it’s not like undergrad where you get a break on tuition. They know that you are going to be a doctor.
The schools have different rules for granting institutional money. The FAFSA rules are different. You don't include parental assets for those loans for grad schools. This is about using institutional money to make med school debt free.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 15:49
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Cornell just announced that its medical school is now going to be debt-free.. do you think this will be a trend in top schools and/or expand to law or business?
Debt free to those who qualify for financial aid. They'll likely still consider parental income/assets to make financial aid determination. That still leaves a huge segment of potential students uncovered. Many parents tell their kids they are on their own for grad schools, and those students are on their own but still burdened with their parents' assets counting against them.
Aren't student kind of on their own after college? I never expected my parents to pay for grad school.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 15:30
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
And do we really want free tuition expanding into other lucrative fields such as law? Attorneys coming out of NYU and Cornell are expect to make enough to pay off their loan so I don’t see the purpose of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. Unless you believe we don’t have enough lawyers in this country...
Anonymous
09/19/2019 14:51
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
My respect for the professionals has gone down with them writing opioid prescriptions and the predatory billing
It is not a noble profession, the people are sharks like estate agents and corrupt cops. Nobody needs to think they are special just because they went to school
It is not a noble profession, the people are sharks like estate agents and corrupt cops. Nobody needs to think they are special just because they went to school
Anonymous
09/19/2019 12:59
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Money rolls in for med students, enough for them to pay off their loan. Not sure of the wisdom of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. We would all be better served by subsidizing starving artists/musicians and/or other creative professions.
MD here, and I agree with some of this. We make plenty of money to do jobs we would do for free, and we can easily pay off our debt.
However, I doubt that this is being subsidized by the university. The medical school probably just has a big enough endowment to be able to make this work.
But maybe you are asking why medical students shouldn’t just keep paying tuition iand using that money to subsidize starving artists...
Anonymous
09/19/2019 12:54
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:It is also difficult to give one child an extra $300K for med school when there are other siblings. That imbalance of $$ could create lots of jealousy later on in life.
8:52 here. So far we are not seeing this with our 3 grown kids - #1 got his phd and we paid almost nothing for his education (other than some pocket money here and there), #2 we paid significantly more because he went to post college prof school, for #3, we will end up paying more than #1 and #2 combined because she is in med school. i suppose it's possible that kids 1 and 2 may resent little sis later on in life but, for now, $ is not on their radar. do you think it will happen later?
Anonymous
09/19/2019 12:43
Subject: Re:With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
You know, I always thought that the high tuition for medical schools seemed like kind of a racket.
There are, what, 200 kids in each class, so 800 kids in the medical school. And each of them is paying $50k/yr to be there. That’s $40 million a year. I didn’t see anything going on at the medical school while I was there that cost $40 million. It’s not like a university that has to pay for buildings and dining halls and salaries for hundreds of faculty and staff. I don’t know where the money goes. If it is used by the university to fund other programs, or if it is used by the hospital to subsidize our shitty healthcare system or what. It’s not clear to me why it was ever so much except that this is a group of people who will pay it.
There are, what, 200 kids in each class, so 800 kids in the medical school. And each of them is paying $50k/yr to be there. That’s $40 million a year. I didn’t see anything going on at the medical school while I was there that cost $40 million. It’s not like a university that has to pay for buildings and dining halls and salaries for hundreds of faculty and staff. I don’t know where the money goes. If it is used by the university to fund other programs, or if it is used by the hospital to subsidize our shitty healthcare system or what. It’s not clear to me why it was ever so much except that this is a group of people who will pay it.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 12:29
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Cornell just announced that its medical school is now going to be debt-free.. do you think this will be a trend in top schools and/or expand to law or business?
Debt free to those who qualify for financial aid. They'll likely still consider parental income/assets to make financial aid determination. That still leaves a huge segment of potential students uncovered. Many parents tell their kids they are on their own for grad schools, and those students are on their own but still burdened with their parents' assets counting against them.
This is totally true. My DS recently graduated from med school. I had to complete the FAFSA with our assets. He was borrowing tuition for all 4years.
I wonder if it is different at different schools?
I graduated in 2007 and did not have to include my parents information on the FAFSA. So I was able to take out federal loans for all 4 years. But it’s not like undergrad where you get a break on tuition. They know that you are going to be a doctor.
Anonymous
09/19/2019 12:23
Subject: With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?
It is also difficult to give one child an extra $300K for med school when there are other siblings. That imbalance of $$ could create lots of jealousy later on in life.