Don't teachers need to be judicious about how they group and seat kids? Hate to think the teacher decided that the kids with externalized behavioral challenges should be placed with kids who are withdrawn to make life easier. Those two kids could well be reinforcing each other. Or rotate periodically.

The person, apparently a teacher, who said kids sit where they like, is not thinking about how that can impact kids who are withdrawn or bullied or shunned btw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self advocacy is an unbalanced tool. If you are a 6 foot tall male student aged 12 you are going to be listened to a lot quicker than if you are a skinny 4'5 feet tall girl. I know because my kid is the skinny little girl.

You definitely have a point. Unfortunately.

yes, she does.

And the lessons of self-advocacy are harder for some than for others due to personality. Some of the responses from my son's teachers through the years were just about the opposite of effective.

OP, if your daughter fears retaliation from these kids if she asks to move tables, it sounds like she may have a bullying situation on her hands. Harassment can fall within these parameters if it disrupts her learning environment. You may want to read your school’s bullying policy, especially if the teacher is not doing anything to rein in these kids in the classroom. It doesn’t sound like this is something your daughter should simply tolerate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 4 kids at her table. the one next to her and across from her have behavior issues and are constantly talking. the one next to her always bumps her during class and distracts her. my dd has anxiety and this is stressing her out since the 2 kids are "tough". She wants to ask the teacher to move her but is also worried these 2 kids will retaliate against her. there was an incident last year when the one kid was making fun of my child hair. my kid is very quiet and non confrontational so she doesnt know what to do. for any other kid, I would say suck it up. but this time, I really do want her moved. any advice?

But not for yours?

Suck it up, she needs to learn to deal with life around people she doesn't like or who she's not comfortable around.

This. In ES there was a couple of tough kids from one family. Inappropriate. Loud. Distracting. One parent complained about it after about a week and the kid was moved to my kid's table. The kid has to sit somewhere so I didn't complain about it. We talked about a) strategies for dealing and b) if it crosses a certain threshold, I will talk to the teacher (which I never had to do). This mom was going on and on about it at a happy hour, and how she had to have the kid moved away from her DD.=

As an adult, if I am sitting on the metro and some moron sits next to me listening to their music without earbuds, I will move away because discussing it with him might not end well for me. a.kid in a class just cant get up and sit elsewhere. kids get plenty of experience navigating uncomfortable situations while in school but chronic interruptions by a kid that might be volatile need to be addressed and not tolerated. if you are ok with your kid sitting next to them, be my guest.

Your analogy is off. You can just avoid someone on the metro. In a public school, the students have to sit somewhere in the class. Even the annoying and inappropriate ones. And you complaining about that kid being sat next to yours just makes other kids have to deal with it.

Also, from my Post, which you selectively referred to, I said that there were "thresholds" over which I would get involved. But, luckily, the strategies my child and I worked through helped her to be able to stand up for herself, and be a bit more resilient. I'm sorry yours is not.

NP. Well, yeah. And that's unfortunate. But please explain to me why that's should be my, or my kid's problem.

This is a separate issue from whether Op should intervene - I for one think that her daughter should handle it, at least initially. But I really don't get the "well, he has to sit somewhere" mentality. Maybe there are kids who won't be bothered by his antics, and he can sit there. Regardless, we want kids to self-advocate, but not in this instance?

At a minimum, she needs to register her displeasure so the teacher knows it when tables switch around.

Because you're not homeschooling. You're in a public school with a community of students beyond your child. You will eventually have to send your kid into society with some ability to cope.

But, I get it. You're content to be a selfish a-hole and raising your kid to be one too.

So I just want to be clear. You think that if my kid is having her education disrupted by other students at the table, she *shouldn't* ask to be relocated, because (i) hey, it's public school, and (ii) it wouldn't be fair if another kids had to sit next to the offenders?

That's your position?

Your kid is expected learn to deal with people that are not like her, just like you are expecting them to learn to deal with her. That is the way it works.

NP.

That’s not the way it works. You teach your kid to get along with people who are not like her. You don’t teach her to be a doormat. You teach her she can and should stand up for herself when people - be they like her or not - are disruptive to her education and make her uncomfortable. Sure, the teacher may switch them around or not. But a girl should know she can advocate for herself and that her parents will have her back.

I don't see sitting in a room or at a table with people that you don't like as 'being a doormat'. Running away from every little thing isn't 'standing up for yourself', its just running away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 4 kids at her table. the one next to her and across from her have behavior issues and are constantly talking. the one next to her always bumps her during class and distracts her. my dd has anxiety and this is stressing her out since the 2 kids are "tough". She wants to ask the teacher to move her but is also worried these 2 kids will retaliate against her. there was an incident last year when the one kid was making fun of my child hair. my kid is very quiet and non confrontational so she doesnt know what to do. for any other kid, I would say suck it up. but this time, I really do want her moved. any advice?

But not for yours?

Suck it up, she needs to learn to deal with life around people she doesn't like or who she's not comfortable around.

This. In ES there was a couple of tough kids from one family. Inappropriate. Loud. Distracting. One parent complained about it after about a week and the kid was moved to my kid's table. The kid has to sit somewhere so I didn't complain about it. We talked about a) strategies for dealing and b) if it crosses a certain threshold, I will talk to the teacher (which I never had to do). This mom was going on and on about it at a happy hour, and how she had to have the kid moved away from her DD.=

As an adult, if I am sitting on the metro and some moron sits next to me listening to their music without earbuds, I will move away because discussing it with him might not end well for me. a.kid in a class just cant get up and sit elsewhere. kids get plenty of experience navigating uncomfortable situations while in school but chronic interruptions by a kid that might be volatile need to be addressed and not tolerated. if you are ok with your kid sitting next to them, be my guest.

Your analogy is off. You can just avoid someone on the metro. In a public school, the students have to sit somewhere in the class. Even the annoying and inappropriate ones. And you complaining about that kid being sat next to yours just makes other kids have to deal with it.

Also, from my Post, which you selectively referred to, I said that there were "thresholds" over which I would get involved. But, luckily, the strategies my child and I worked through helped her to be able to stand up for herself, and be a bit more resilient. I'm sorry yours is not.

NP. Well, yeah. And that's unfortunate. But please explain to me why that's should be my, or my kid's problem.

This is a separate issue from whether Op should intervene - I for one think that her daughter should handle it, at least initially. But I really don't get the "well, he has to sit somewhere" mentality. Maybe there are kids who won't be bothered by his antics, and he can sit there. Regardless, we want kids to self-advocate, but not in this instance?

At a minimum, she needs to register her displeasure so the teacher knows it when tables switch around.

Because you're not homeschooling. You're in a public school with a community of students beyond your child. You will eventually have to send your kid into society with some ability to cope.

But, I get it. You're content to be a selfish a-hole and raising your kid to be one too.

So I just want to be clear. You think that if my kid is having her education disrupted by other students at the table, she *shouldn't* ask to be relocated, because (i) hey, it's public school, and (ii) it wouldn't be fair if another kids had to sit next to the offenders?

That's your position?

Your kid is expected learn to deal with people that are not like her, just like you are expecting them to learn to deal with her. That is the way it works.

NP.

That’s not the way it works. You teach your kid to get along with people who are not like her. You don’t teach her to be a doormat. You teach her she can and should stand up for herself when people - be they like her or not - are disruptive to her education and make her uncomfortable. Sure, the teacher may switch them around or not. But a girl should know she can advocate for herself and that her parents will have her back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 4 kids at her table. the one next to her and across from her have behavior issues and are constantly talking. the one next to her always bumps her during class and distracts her. my dd has anxiety and this is stressing her out since the 2 kids are "tough". She wants to ask the teacher to move her but is also worried these 2 kids will retaliate against her. there was an incident last year when the one kid was making fun of my child hair. my kid is very quiet and non confrontational so she doesnt know what to do. for any other kid, I would say suck it up. but this time, I really do want her moved. any advice?

But not for yours?

Suck it up, she needs to learn to deal with life around people she doesn't like or who she's not comfortable around.

This. In ES there was a couple of tough kids from one family. Inappropriate. Loud. Distracting. One parent complained about it after about a week and the kid was moved to my kid's table. The kid has to sit somewhere so I didn't complain about it. We talked about a) strategies for dealing and b) if it crosses a certain threshold, I will talk to the teacher (which I never had to do). This mom was going on and on about it at a happy hour, and how she had to have the kid moved away from her DD.=

As an adult, if I am sitting on the metro and some moron sits next to me listening to their music without earbuds, I will move away because discussing it with him might not end well for me. a.kid in a class just cant get up and sit elsewhere. kids get plenty of experience navigating uncomfortable situations while in school but chronic interruptions by a kid that might be volatile need to be addressed and not tolerated. if you are ok with your kid sitting next to them, be my guest.

Your analogy is off. You can just avoid someone on the metro. In a public school, the students have to sit somewhere in the class. Even the annoying and inappropriate ones. And you complaining about that kid being sat next to yours just makes other kids have to deal with it.

Also, from my Post, which you selectively referred to, I said that there were "thresholds" over which I would get involved. But, luckily, the strategies my child and I worked through helped her to be able to stand up for herself, and be a bit more resilient. I'm sorry yours is not.

NP. Well, yeah. And that's unfortunate. But please explain to me why that's should be my, or my kid's problem.

This is a separate issue from whether Op should intervene - I for one think that her daughter should handle it, at least initially. But I really don't get the "well, he has to sit somewhere" mentality. Maybe there are kids who won't be bothered by his antics, and he can sit there. Regardless, we want kids to self-advocate, but not in this instance?

At a minimum, she needs to register her displeasure so the teacher knows it when tables switch around.

Because you're not homeschooling. You're in a public school with a community of students beyond your child. You will eventually have to send your kid into society with some ability to cope.

But, I get it. You're content to be a selfish a-hole and raising your kid to be one too.

So I just want to be clear. You think that if my kid is having her education disrupted by other students at the table, she *shouldn't* ask to be relocated, because (i) hey, it's public school, and (ii) it wouldn't be fair if another kids had to sit next to the offenders?

That's your position?

Your kid is expected learn to deal with people that are not like her, just like you are expecting them to learn to deal with her. That is the way it works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 4 kids at her table. the one next to her and across from her have behavior issues and are constantly talking. the one next to her always bumps her during class and distracts her. my dd has anxiety and this is stressing her out since the 2 kids are "tough". She wants to ask the teacher to move her but is also worried these 2 kids will retaliate against her. there was an incident last year when the one kid was making fun of my child hair. my kid is very quiet and non confrontational so she doesnt know what to do. for any other kid, I would say suck it up. but this time, I really do want her moved. any advice?

But not for yours?

Suck it up, she needs to learn to deal with life around people she doesn't like or who she's not comfortable around.

This. In ES there was a couple of tough kids from one family. Inappropriate. Loud. Distracting. One parent complained about it after about a week and the kid was moved to my kid's table. The kid has to sit somewhere so I didn't complain about it. We talked about a) strategies for dealing and b) if it crosses a certain threshold, I will talk to the teacher (which I never had to do). This mom was going on and on about it at a happy hour, and how she had to have the kid moved away from her DD.=

As an adult, if I am sitting on the metro and some moron sits next to me listening to their music without earbuds, I will move away because discussing it with him might not end well for me. a.kid in a class just cant get up and sit elsewhere. kids get plenty of experience navigating uncomfortable situations while in school but chronic interruptions by a kid that might be volatile need to be addressed and not tolerated. if you are ok with your kid sitting next to them, be my guest.

Your analogy is off. You can just avoid someone on the metro. In a public school, the students have to sit somewhere in the class. Even the annoying and inappropriate ones. And you complaining about that kid being sat next to yours just makes other kids have to deal with it.

Also, from my Post, which you selectively referred to, I said that there were "thresholds" over which I would get involved. But, luckily, the strategies my child and I worked through helped her to be able to stand up for herself, and be a bit more resilient. I'm sorry yours is not.

NP. Well, yeah. And that's unfortunate. But please explain to me why that's should be my, or my kid's problem.

This is a separate issue from whether Op should intervene - I for one think that her daughter should handle it, at least initially. But I really don't get the "well, he has to sit somewhere" mentality. Maybe there are kids who won't be bothered by his antics, and he can sit there. Regardless, we want kids to self-advocate, but not in this instance?

At a minimum, she needs to register her displeasure so the teacher knows it when tables switch around.

Because you're not homeschooling. You're in a public school with a community of students beyond your child. You will eventually have to send your kid into society with some ability to cope.

But, I get it. You're content to be a selfish a-hole and raising your kid to be one too.

So I just want to be clear. You think that if my kid is having her education disrupted by other students at the table, she *shouldn't* ask to be relocated, because (i) hey, it's public school, and (ii) it wouldn't be fair if another kids had to sit next to the offenders?

That's your position?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 4 kids at her table. the one next to her and across from her have behavior issues and are constantly talking. the one next to her always bumps her during class and distracts her. my dd has anxiety and this is stressing her out since the 2 kids are "tough". She wants to ask the teacher to move her but is also worried these 2 kids will retaliate against her. there was an incident last year when the one kid was making fun of my child hair. my kid is very quiet and non confrontational so she doesnt know what to do. for any other kid, I would say suck it up. but this time, I really do want her moved. any advice?

But not for yours?

Suck it up, she needs to learn to deal with life around people she doesn't like or who she's not comfortable around.

This. In ES there was a couple of tough kids from one family. Inappropriate. Loud. Distracting. One parent complained about it after about a week and the kid was moved to my kid's table. The kid has to sit somewhere so I didn't complain about it. We talked about a) strategies for dealing and b) if it crosses a certain threshold, I will talk to the teacher (which I never had to do). This mom was going on and on about it at a happy hour, and how she had to have the kid moved away from her DD.=

As an adult, if I am sitting on the metro and some moron sits next to me listening to their music without earbuds, I will move away because discussing it with him might not end well for me. a.kid in a class just cant get up and sit elsewhere. kids get plenty of experience navigating uncomfortable situations while in school but chronic interruptions by a kid that might be volatile need to be addressed and not tolerated. if you are ok with your kid sitting next to them, be my guest.

Your analogy is off. You can just avoid someone on the metro. In a public school, the students have to sit somewhere in the class. Even the annoying and inappropriate ones. And you complaining about that kid being sat next to yours just makes other kids have to deal with it.

Also, from my Post, which you selectively referred to, I said that there were "thresholds" over which I would get involved. But, luckily, the strategies my child and I worked through helped her to be able to stand up for herself, and be a bit more resilient. I'm sorry yours is not.

NP. Well, yeah. And that's unfortunate. But please explain to me why that's should be my, or my kid's problem.

This is a separate issue from whether Op should intervene - I for one think that her daughter should handle it, at least initially. But I really don't get the "well, he has to sit somewhere" mentality. Maybe there are kids who won't be bothered by his antics, and he can sit there. Regardless, we want kids to self-advocate, but not in this instance?

At a minimum, she needs to register her displeasure so the teacher knows it when tables switch around.

Because you're not homeschooling. You're in a public school with a community of students beyond your child. You will eventually have to send your kid into society with some ability to cope.

But, I get it. You're content to be a selfish a-hole and raising your kid to be one too.

OP here. I wasn't planning on getting involved unless things escalated. she is good at self advocating to adults or predictable kids. it's just these two kids. she has had classes with them before but never had to sit with them. she has seen their behavior and is frankly, afraid of it. these kids have no problems yelling at a teacher and most teachers tune them out because there isnt much they can do. So my dd spoke with the counselor and the counselor agreed that changes need to be made in that class. I told my dd to tell teacher/counselor to move the other girls and not her since she didnt do anything wrong. FWIW, this school is truly diverse racially and economically, but skews lower SES. Based on my 7 years experience I strongly PM 10support separating kids that cause repeated disruptions. It is not fair for the teachers and students to have to deal with it. And it isnt fair to the disruptive kids because they are being ignored and pushed through school without the support they need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 4 kids at her table. the one next to her and across from her have behavior issues and are constantly talking. the one next to her always bumps her during class and distracts her. my dd has anxiety and this is stressing her out since the 2 kids are "tough". She wants to ask the teacher to move her but is also worried these 2 kids will retaliate against her. there was an incident last year when the one kid was making fun of my child hair. my kid is very quiet and non confrontational so she doesnt know what to do. for any other kid, I would say suck it up. but this time, I really do want her moved. any advice?

But not for yours?

Suck it up, she needs to learn to deal with life around people she doesn't like or who she's not comfortable around.

This. In ES there was a couple of tough kids from one family. Inappropriate. Loud. Distracting. One parent complained about it after about a week and the kid was moved to my kid's table. The kid has to sit somewhere so I didn't complain about it. We talked about a) strategies for dealing and b) if it crosses a certain threshold, I will talk to the teacher (which I never had to do). This mom was going on and on about it at a happy hour, and how she had to have the kid moved away from her DD.=

As an adult, if I am sitting on the metro and some moron sits next to me listening to their music without earbuds, I will move away because discussing it with him might not end well for me. a.kid in a class just cant get up and sit elsewhere. kids get plenty of experience navigating uncomfortable situations while in school but chronic interruptions by a kid that might be volatile need to be addressed and not tolerated. if you are ok with your kid sitting next to them, be my guest.

Your analogy is off. You can just avoid someone on the metro. In a public school, the students have to sit somewhere in the class. Even the annoying and inappropriate ones. And you complaining about that kid being sat next to yours just makes other kids have to deal with it.

Also, from my Post, which you selectively referred to, I said that there were "thresholds" over which I would get involved. But, luckily, the strategies my child and I worked through helped her to be able to stand up for herself, and be a bit more resilient. I'm sorry yours is not.

NP. Well, yeah. And that's unfortunate. But please explain to me why that's should be my, or my kid's problem.

This is a separate issue from whether Op should intervene - I for one think that her daughter should handle it, at least initially. But I really don't get the "well, he has to sit somewhere" mentality. Maybe there are kids who won't be bothered by his antics, and he can sit there. Regardless, we want kids to self-advocate, but not in this instance?

At a minimum, she needs to register her displeasure so the teacher knows it when tables switch around.

Anonymous wrote:OP,

My very small, nerdy, bespectacled and previously bullied son, started standing up for himself when he arrived in middle school. He had to. He was as short as a 4th grader, and some people in his class were adult-sized. He shot out zingers at the slightest sign that others were gearing up to tease or bully him, because he had learned his lesson in elementary.

No one retaliated against him. One science team-mate did end up being berating him, but she did that to all her team-mates, he wasn't specifically targeted, which in his mind wasn't as bad.

Your daughter must shush the noisy ones, and tell the teacher that they are disturbing her. She has to say: "Excuse me, can you not bump against me while I'm working? You have all this expanse of desk to yourself. This is where my desk starts. Thanks."

Please let her do this. It will serve her much better than asking to move desks. This is not move-desk or parent-intervention worthy, believe me.

Good for your son! It takes practice and is very hard for some kids. I’d practice with your daughter using less and more direct words. “You keep bumping me. Please stop.” In a calm, polite but forceful tone. Empower her. It is not easy but she needs to learn to stand up for herself. Encourage her to speak with the teacher or you can write an email together but send it from her account. If all of that fails and nothing happens then you step in as a parent.

Anonymous wrote:Self advocacy is an unbalanced tool. If you are a 6 foot tall male student aged 12 you are going to be listened to a lot quicker than if you are a skinny 4'5 feet tall girl. I know because my kid is the skinny little girl.

That doesn’t mean the skinny 4’5 girl doesn’t need to attempt and practice doing it anyway. THEN mom can step in.

If this is an issue your kid needs to tell the teacher. So you know how frustrating it is to get bombarded by a parent in an email about some issue that’s allegedly been going on all quarter that their kid NEVER mentioned to me?

Anonymous wrote:Self advocacy is an unbalanced tool. If you are a 6 foot tall male student aged 12 you are going to be listened to a lot quicker than if you are a skinny 4'5 feet tall girl. I know because my kid is the skinny little girl.

You definitely have a point. Unfortunately.

Self advocacy is an unbalanced tool. If you are a 6 foot tall male student aged 12 you are going to be listened to a lot quicker than if you are a skinny 4'5 feet tall girl. I know because my kid is the skinny little girl.