That chart is not fully accurate.

FASD label helps if it is the appropriate label, just like any other label. However, most of those kids are probably labeled ASD as a huge marker is the physical markers and not all kids have that.

I wonder what the impact of paternal drug and alcohol use is. There are studies and a huge push with maternal drug use but what about long term paternal use?

I don't see how a FASD label helps kids.

As an adoptive parent, I think knowing that alcohol consumption during pregnancy puts the baby at risk for lots of different developmental outcomes, was helpful.

If I were a pregnant woman, I also think that knowledge would be helpful.

But as a special ed teacher, what I see is that people have much lower expectations for kids with the FASD label than they do for other kids with similar profiles. And I think those expectations hurt kids. So, once a kid is born, and placed if they need to be placed, I don't see how it is beneficial to kids to explore the possibility of an FASD diagnosis. Most kids with FASD would also meet criteria for other conditions, and I think would be better served under those labels.

I will also say that I don't see how a kid with FASD can be confused with a kid with ASD.

In my experience, and all the reading I have done, if there's a symptom (besides things like facial differences) that is specific to FASD it's the difficulty connecting a behavior to its consequences, and learning from those consequences. In my experience, many kids with ASD don't have that problem, in fact they sometimes have the opposite problem. They do something, get reinforced naturally or intentionally and then "overlearn" that behavior and overapply it, or perseverate on it.

In contrast, I think the core symptom of autism is difficulty making sense of social behavior, something I have not seen to be a relative weakness for kids with FASD. Of course, language delays and cognitive delays in FASD can cause some social difficulties, but social cognition isn't generally worse than other skills, whereas with ASD it's a marked weakness.

Now, are there other symptoms like language delay, and impulsivity that overlap? Yes, but there is really a difference in those two diagnoses.

And before someone points it out, I will acknowledge that yes, someone can have the predisposition to develop autism and then get exposed to alcohol in utero and end up with both.

^^ if you will

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This chart is total crap. Many, many kids with adhd have another diagnosis and have all the behaviors listed as “FASD” above. Also you’re talking about kids with HFA. Kids with low functioning autism have all kinds of additional behaviors.

Yes, having multiple diagnoses means you fulfill the criteria for … multiple diagnoses?

That doesn't mean the diagnoses magically transform themselves into one another.

This chart is made by an “adoption specialist”. Stop passing it off as credible.

My son attends a school for special needs kids, none of whom have a FAS diagnosis, and all of whom would satisfy the entire list of criteria. Stop spreading hysteria.

Hysteria?

I'm not the one saying these diagnoses cannot be distinguished from one another, and that undiagnosed FASD is spurring the increase in other diagnoses.
(Are you "Xoxo Autism mom"? Where is your source for that?)

I agree the chart isn't the same as the actual scientific research. I'll be happy to cite my actual references there, it you will> Or are you just going with "it's my gut feeling, so it's probably true?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This chart is total crap. Many, many kids with adhd have another diagnosis and have all the behaviors listed as “FASD” above. Also you’re talking about kids with HFA. Kids with low functioning autism have all kinds of additional behaviors.

Yes, having multiple diagnoses means you fulfill the criteria for … multiple diagnoses?

That doesn't mean the diagnoses magically transform themselves into one another.

This chart is made by an “adoption specialist”. Stop passing it off as credible.

My son attends a school for special needs kids, none of whom have a FAS diagnosis, and all of whom would satisfy the entire list of criteria. Stop spreading hysteria.

Anonymous wrote:This chart is total crap. Many, many kids with adhd have another diagnosis and have all the behaviors listed as “FASD” above. Also you’re talking about kids with HFA. Kids with low functioning autism have all kinds of additional behaviors.

Yes, having multiple diagnoses means you fulfill the criteria for … multiple diagnoses?

That doesn't mean the diagnoses magically transform themselves into one another.

Anonymous wrote:This chart is total crap. Many, many kids with adhd have another diagnosis and have all the behaviors listed as “FASD” above. Also you’re talking about kids with HFA. Kids with low functioning autism have all kinds of additional behaviors.

Also this arbitrary nonsense chart has things like sleep disturbance not marked for kids with autism. What nonsense.

This chart is total crap. Many, many kids with adhd have another diagnosis and have all the behaviors listed as “FASD” above. Also you’re talking about kids with HFA. Kids with low functioning autism have all kinds of additional behaviors.

DP. There are specific differences in the screening and disgnostic processes; e.g.,

1. difficulties in initiating social interaction, sharing affect, and using nonverbal communication are common in children with ASD but rare in children with FASD or ADHD
2. most children with ASD have a higher nonverbal than verbal IQ, but the reverse for children with FASD

etc. (see table below)

I suppose if you are not trained in making the diagnosis, you can confuse it as just "bad behavior," but the technical diagnosticians have fairly reliable ways of sorting them out. I mean, it isn't perfect, but there isn't that much confusion.

I still don't know why "Xoxo Autism mom" claims she has reason to believe there are spurious diagnoses of ADHD or ASD because FASD is being completely mistaken as something else. I'd like to see that citation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an adoptive mom to three kids with different levels of in utero alcohol exposure and they are all affected in different ways (the one with the least amount of exposure is affected most). We have a FASD diagnosis for two of them. Many of my fellow adoptive parents also have a FAS/FASD/ARND diagnosis for their children. I also know quite a few bio moms of kids with a host of challenging behaviors, yet all of them either get an ASD, anxiety, or ADHD diagnosis. Do doctors not diagnose FASD in kids that live with their bio parents in order to not offend them? Do you bio parents ever wonder if your child's behavior and challenges could be due to alcohol? And I am not judging. I think most people probably drink before they realize they are pregnant.

Of course you are. Of course a person judges someone who drank enough to cause FASD in their kids. I don't know where the line between drinking in moderation/drinking enough to cause FASD is, but I'd judge the hell out of someone who crossed it. How can you not?

My child has FAS, I did not know until 7 weeks. I was assured it was too early to cause it. I suppose you can judge me.

My adopted sister has FAS. Her bio mom has a low IQ and anxiety which she self medicated for with alcohol. She is finally sober at 55 because of serious physical disabilities that landed her in assisted living.

I suspect the line could be as simple as a week-long cruise ship vacation before a woman suspects she is pregnant. I was “fortunate” to get HG early, early two pregnancies. It was like a warning and I could not have consumed alcohol if I tried since even sips of water were ejected. But not everyone gets morning sick and not everyone has regular menstrual cycles. Some people have bleeding every month for 4-5 months of gestation.

I’m not going to judge you PP. and I suspect the habitual drinkers have addiction so I won’t judge them either.

Anonymous wrote:All the very good points above aside, can you not think of reasons which would make children who were (most likely) taken away from their parents more likely to have been exposed to alcohol in utero, and those who were not removed by the state somehow less likely to have been exposed that way?

Anything strike you as a possible reason for that correlation?

Exactly. Not sure why everyone is ignoring this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAS isn’t diagnosed because people don’t identify that they drank. It Often presents like ADHD/ASD. One of the maby reasons we are seeing an increase in ADHD/ASD diagnosis.
Xoxo Autism mom

And maybe the increase is due to virus exposure, pesticides, chemicals, air pollution, genetic abnormalities, etc.? Hypothesizing a link between alcohol and ASD/ADHD where none has been proven unfairly places blame on Moms. Now, everyone will assume that the mothers of children with issues drank while pregnant. This is infuriating! Women need to stand together and call out stupidity when it shows up on DCUM.

DP. Why are you so infuriated over what 'everyone' will assume? Honest question. Let 'everyone' assume whatever they want, why does it upset you so much?

My nephew has Asperger's, and his mother doesn't drink at all (I've known her for 20 year and don't remember ever seeing her drink, even at parties). His father, though, has some form of ASD that he passed on to his child.

Genetics is a real thing, you know.

Why do I care about what others think? Because I want to face teachers, school administrators, friends, neighbors, and family members without worrying that they think I drank while pregnant. I care about all SN parents who have to deal with judgmental stares. Yes, I believe fetal alcohol syndrome is real, but don’t dare make an irrational, unscientific statement linking alcohol consumption to an increase in ADHD/ASD. I also care because this is an example of another attack on women.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAS isn’t diagnosed because people don’t identify that they drank. It Often presents like ADHD/ASD. One of the maby reasons we are seeing an increase in ADHD/ASD diagnosis.
Xoxo Autism mom

And maybe the increase is due to virus exposure, pesticides, chemicals, air pollution, genetic abnormalities, etc.? Hypothesizing a link between alcohol and ASD/ADHD where none has been proven unfairly places blame on Moms. Now, everyone will assume that the mothers of children with issues drank while pregnant. This is infuriating! Women need to stand together and call out stupidity when it shows up on DCUM.

DP. Why are you so infuriated over what 'everyone' will assume? Honest question. Let 'everyone' assume whatever they want, why does it upset you so much?

My nephew has Asperger's, and his mother doesn't drink at all (I've known her for 20 year and don't remember ever seeing her drink, even at parties). His father, though, has some form of ASD that he passed on to his child.

Genetics is a real thing, you know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAS isn’t diagnosed because people don’t identify that they drank. It Often presents like ADHD/ASD. One of the maby reasons we are seeing an increase in ADHD/ASD diagnosis.
Xoxo Autism mom

And maybe the increase is due to virus exposure, pesticides, chemicals, air pollution, genetic abnormalities, etc.? Hypothesizing a link between alcohol and ASD/ADHD where none has been proven unfairly places blame on Moms. Now, everyone will assume that the mothers of children with issues drank while pregnant. This is infuriating! Women need to stand together and call out stupidity when it shows up on DCUM.

FAS is real. OP knows that better than you or I do. I know that I didn't drink during my planned pregnancies, so I'm not defensive.