Anonymous wrote:NP: I do think the issues are different between white women and WOC. The mistreatment and dismissal of issues gets WOC into serious health situations, including death. Whereas white women are more likely to leave dissatisfied with their provider, maybe mentally traumatized, but otherwise alive.

Anonymous wrote:NP: I do think the issues are different between white women and WOC. The mistreatment and dismissal of issues gets WOC into serious health situations, including death. Whereas white women are more likely to leave dissatisfied with their provider, maybe mentally traumatized, but otherwise alive.

Anonymous wrote:I’m the WOC who apparently derailed the conversation by asking white women to step back.

No one is asking you to shut up. No one is silencing you. When it comes to conversations about women, your experience is already the default; we are exceptions.

In an article specifically highlighting disproportionate outcomes and what we experience, let’s let WOC, especially Black women, have the megaphone.

Anonymous wrote:I’m the WOC who apparently derailed the conversation by asking white women to step back.

No one is asking you to shut up. No one is silencing you. When it comes to conversations about women, your experience is already the default; we are exceptions.

In an article specifically highlighting disproportionate outcomes and what we experience, let’s let WOC, especially Black women, have the megaphone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone needs to listen to the experience of Black maternal mistreatment. Not just when you're also allowed to chime in. We need to understand this to our core and fight for better care for THEM. As a consequence, care for all mothers will improve. But if you insist on doing it the other way around, the disparity will still remain for Black mothers. Unfortunately, in reality women's rights only improve when White women complain.

I'm still not sure what your point is? Although Black women face additional barriers due to race, there are absolutely common issues in maternity care. Do you think white women should not take any action or voice any opinion at all, thereby not improving things for anyone? Seriously, what is your theory of change here?

[I'm the poster you're quoting, but not the PP that first asked white women to listen]

I think we (non-Black women) need to beat the drums about the poor care of Black mothers. Make that the narrative. When we advocate for better care for Black mothers, we can address both the issues of mothers being dismissed AND the racial disparities Black mothers face in health care. So everyone wins. The alternative, which is the status quo, is that white women will only complain because it affects them personally. So the change is solely for their benefit, and the racial disparity aspect is overlooked.

-signed: South Asian-American woman who works in public health and whose concerns were dismissed during childbirth to her and her baby's detriment

And you are precisely the reason we lose elections and Trump will be re-elected (which probably hurts black women more than anyone). Intersectionality does not mean that white women are barred from talking about their own experiences - that that their narratives are not valid and should be silenced (particularly with self-internalized sexist rhetoric "listen for once," gross). Intersectionality means that there are MANY narratives. ALL valid. NONE more important than the other. Talk about the experiences of poor women who are black; talk about the experiences of poor women who are white; talk about mistreatment of MC and UMC black women; talk about the mistreatment of MC and UMC white women. White women have complained throughout history - they have frequently not been listened to - because they are women. And if you want an intersectional movement - your starting position can't be white women's experiences don't matter. We have unions in large measure because of poor immigrant white women - are you arguing unions don't benefit black workers? Abortion is legal because, in part, because of white women plaintiffs. Are you saying access to abortion care doesn't benefit black women? White women frequently complain about all women - that's the status quo, actually. Do we need more emphasis on how WOC are mistreated (e.g., in the health care system, in the criminal justice system, in the immigration system)? Of course we do. But the voices of ALL women matter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone needs to listen to the experience of Black maternal mistreatment. Not just when you're also allowed to chime in. We need to understand this to our core and fight for better care for THEM. As a consequence, care for all mothers will improve. But if you insist on doing it the other way around, the disparity will still remain for Black mothers. Unfortunately, in reality women's rights only improve when White women complain.

I'm still not sure what your point is? Although Black women face additional barriers due to race, there are absolutely common issues in maternity care. Do you think white women should not take any action or voice any opinion at all, thereby not improving things for anyone? Seriously, what is your theory of change here?

[I'm the poster you're quoting, but not the PP that first asked white women to listen]

I think we (non-Black women) need to beat the drums about the poor care of Black mothers. Make that the narrative. When we advocate for better care for Black mothers, we can address both the issues of mothers being dismissed AND the racial disparities Black mothers face in health care. So everyone wins. The alternative, which is the status quo, is that white women will only complain because it affects them personally. So the change is solely for their benefit, and the racial disparity aspect is overlooked.

-signed: South Asian-American woman who works in public health and whose concerns were dismissed during childbirth to her and her baby's detriment

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

I'd wager those posters gave birth in a hospital with a midwife practice that is bound by the same protocols and policies as any other provider. Therein lies the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note that the article deals with perceived mistreatment bias based on race, not objectively demonstrated bias based on race. Whatever a woman's race she should get proper treatment, and diverting the discussion from treatment to perceived racial inequities not backed up by objective evidence does no one a service.

What would that even be? Asking health care providers, "Are you racist?", and if they say yes, that's "objectively-demonstrated bias based on race"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

I'd wager those posters gave birth in a hospital with a midwife practice that is bound by the same protocols and policies as any other provider. Therein lies the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Note that the article deals with perceived mistreatment bias based on race, not objectively demonstrated bias based on race. Whatever a woman's race she should get proper treatment, and diverting the discussion from treatment to perceived racial inequities not backed up by objective evidence does no one a service.

Anonymous wrote:

This isn't a conversation about racism. It's a conversation about health care. Since we live in a society where there are huge disparities between races, every issue is going to have a racial aspect. So basically you're suggesting that we can't discuss public policy at all? How does that make sense?

I'm happy to be an ally and stay out of a conversation when it's clear that it's private (between black women or whatever). But this is DCUM, a general interest website.