Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here. I stand corrected: “most” atheists is more accurate than a broad-brush characterization of all atheists. Unfortunately, it looks like there are two strident exceptions in the religion forum, and their voices drown out the thoughtful atheist posters.

As you might expect, the response to your position (which is not insulting, thanks) is that belief is called belief for a reason. It’s about faith. If we knew for certain God exists, then we wouldn’t truly have free will. We’re not asking you to buy this, but it’s “real” to us. Some believers, however, even feel they have proof in the form of miracles or conversations with their god.

I understand faith and I know it is very important to you and other believers, and that you feel it gives your life value and meaning. Do you care if it is true? Is there any position you could not accept "on faith"?

Anonymous wrote:The exchanges in this forum turn people off atheism, rather than towards it. The ignorance on display, the condescension, and the fact-free abuse of believers combine to make atheists and atheism seem pretty unappealing. If atheists here produced actual facts in a respectful way, things might be different

Anonymous wrote:

PP here. I stand corrected: “most” atheists is more accurate than a broad-brush characterization of all atheists. Unfortunately, it looks like there are two strident exceptions in the religion forum, and their voices drown out the thoughtful atheist posters.

As you might expect, the response to your position (which is not insulting, thanks) is that belief is called belief for a reason. It’s about faith. If we knew for certain God exists, then we wouldn’t truly have free will. We’re not asking you to buy this, but it’s “real” to us. Some believers, however, even feel they have proof in the form of miracles or conversations with their god.

Anonymous[b wrote:]The exchanges in this forum turn people off atheism, rather than towards it.[/b] The ignorance on display, the condescension, and the fact-free abuse of believers combine to make atheists and atheism seem pretty unappealing. If atheists here produced actual facts in a respectful way, things might be different

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exchanges in this forum turn people off atheism, rather than towards it. The ignorance on display, the condescension, and the fact-free abuse of believers combine to make atheists and atheism seem pretty unappealing. If atheists here produced actual facts in a respectful way, things might be different

I think most atheists would disagree with you on all points. However, if that is true, you should welcome it.

If you want a clear, simple, non-insulting atheist position, here it is:

The claim of existence of a god or gods has not met a sufficient burden of proof.

Anonymous wrote:The exchanges in this forum turn people off atheism, rather than towards it. The ignorance on display, the condescension, and the fact-free abuse of believers combine to make atheists and atheism seem pretty unappealing. If atheists here produced actual facts in a respectful way, things might be different

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't say “do I need to explain to you”, it says, "Let me know if you get that distinction or need it explained." which sounds sincere to me. If you can refer back to check the time of a post, you can copy and paste the actual sentence, but you chose not to. I see that as intentionally misleading.

Bwahaha. So that was your post?

Anonymous wrote:And if you "can and do change your views", you should welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues. I think if you are willing to change your views, and you look at these things objectively, it is likely you will.

Again, give us some facts, and most of us are open. But I don’t know why you think insults, or endless repetition of ignorance that believers correct you about weekly, would change anybody’s mind. To the contrary, actually.

Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't say “do I need to explain to you”, it says, "Let me know if you get that distinction or need it explained." which sounds sincere to me. If you can refer back to check the time of a post, you can copy and paste the actual sentence, but you chose not to. I see that as intentionally misleading.

Anonymous wrote:And if you "can and do change your views", you should welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues. I think if you are willing to change your views, and you look at these things objectively, it is likely you will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. Of course, that’s true for all of us.

But insults and snark and trolling aren’t (1) facts or (2) positive. They’re a waste of everybody’s time, including your own.

Back to the question: why do you guys come on here to troll and abuse instead of doing something worthwhile with your time?

I honestly don't see too many insults, unless you find people's disagreement insulting. I am totally against ad-hominem attacks from either side, but I see more of those from theists.

The atheist at 13:14 kicks it off with some condescending snark. It’s there, you just choose not to see it. If that was you, you need to start asking yourself some questions about your behavior.

Anonymous wrote:Back to the question, with an answer: As has been mentioned before, atheists like to discuss their views on religion also, and this forum is "religion" and not "believers only". To repeat: I find these discussions very positive, and if and when I see facts that contradict my beliefs, I will change my beliefs. Can you say the same?

I can’t speak for everybody here, but yes, absolutely, I can and do change my views.

The problem is that the standard atheist approach here—condescension to the supposedly stupid believers (13:14 and her “do I need to explain to you”), endless repetition of things that you’re told equally often are untrue (most believers don’t think atheists are going to hell), and ignorance about religion—aren’t “facts” and they certainly aren’t going to change anybody’s views.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. Of course, that’s true for all of us.

But insults and snark and trolling aren’t (1) facts or (2) positive. They’re a waste of everybody’s time, including your own.

Back to the question: why do you guys come on here to troll and abuse instead of doing something worthwhile with your time?

I honestly don't see too many insults, unless you find people's disagreement insulting. I am totally against ad-hominem attacks from either side, but I see more of those from theists.

Anonymous wrote:Back to the question, with an answer: As has been mentioned before, atheists like to discuss their views on religion also, and this forum is "religion" and not "believers only". To repeat: I find these discussions very positive, and if and when I see facts that contradict my beliefs, I will change my beliefs. Can you say the same?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is how I picture the ranting atheist/s.

Again, the irony totally escapes you folks.

Perhaps people who don’t like religion should find a forum they aren’t completely opposed to to inhabit?

I’d be irritated if I had to hang out with people I don’t like it agree with either. Since nobody is forced to be in a religion forum, go somewhere you are at peace or inspired by..

You are correct. You are not forced to be here. I like it here though!

Me too!

This seems to translate into “I like trolling religious people with my snark and childish rhetorical games.” It’s time for you to get a life that’s positive, not negative.

Personal growth comes from going deeper into the things you like, and exploring new things—not from antagonizing other people anonymously.

Personally, I like discussion, and I like being intellectually challenged. No personal growth can happen in an echo chamber. I find these discussions very positive, and if and when I see facts that contradict my beliefs, I will change my beliefs. Can you say the same?

DP. Of course, that’s true for all of us.

But insults and snark and trolling aren’t (1) facts or (2) positive. They’re a waste of everybody’s time, including your own.

Back to the question: why do you guys come on here to troll and abuse instead of doing something worthwhile with your time?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is how I picture the ranting atheist/s.

Again, the irony totally escapes you folks.

Perhaps people who don’t like religion should find a forum they aren’t completely opposed to to inhabit?

I’d be irritated if I had to hang out with people I don’t like it agree with either. Since nobody is forced to be in a religion forum, go somewhere you are at peace or inspired by..

You are correct. You are not forced to be here. I like it here though!

Me too!

This seems to translate into “I like trolling religious people with my snark and childish rhetorical games.” It’s time for you to get a life that’s positive, not negative.

Personal growth comes from going deeper into the things you like, and exploring new things—not from antagonizing other people anonymously.

Personally, I like discussion, and I like being intellectually challenged. No personal growth can happen in an echo chamber. I find these discussions very positive, and if and when I see facts that contradict my beliefs, I will change my beliefs. Can you say the same?