Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am happy with what I see from the clergy around me that they too are angry and are not at all happy with the mistakes of their older cohort. I think an enormous part of the Church hierarchy failed badly just as it has time and time again in the past) but the faith of the people has pulled it through. Being part of the charge is more important to me than protesting the errors by stepping away. That ultimately serves no purpose except to make a statement. “I’m leaving the Church!” Okay. Then what?

Catholics who leave must be “Catholic” in name only. If not they would understand that denying themselves the sacraments means they never had faith in them to begin with.

+1

You can't know what it means to them. It may mean they no longer think the "sacraments" hold any value ,or they think they can find the sacraments in other denominations, or they are not as locked in, as you seem to be, to the notion that only through the Catholic church, can they find salvation.

ALso, it's possible that watching the church's troubles has opened them up to thinking that religious belief is not a good thing. I know many former Catholic atheists. They didn't just leave the church. They left religion completely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fundamentally disagree that taking away my attendance and $10/week would change the hierarchy of the Church.

Yeah, not just YOU, but if EVERYONE did, the change would happen so fast you'd get whiplash from watching it. Guaranteed.

Are you not aware of the power of the people?

Are you not aware that it’s utterly ludicrous to think that EVERYONE is ever going to do what YOU prefer? Grow up.

First, it's not "what I prefer" but "what is clearly right".

Second, it may be ludicrous, but it is nice to dream that people will do the right thing, embrace their power and make changes happen.

I feel the same way about voting, even though only 56% of people do it (in the US). I still wish everyone would. If that means I have to "grow up". well, then, OK, I will take that criticism with pride.

Why are you quoting yourself? - "what is clearly right" - Should we close al the Catholic schools, Health Care clinics and hospitals too? It's good to have dreams though.

I realize when you choose to defend the indefensible, strawman arguments are all you have. Sad for you.

Yes, fewer people are attending Catholic masses in the US. 75% of US Catholics attended weekly mass in 1955; that number is now 39%.

However, my understanding is numbers are growing in other countries, so the Catholic Church might not be too worried yet.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/232226/church-attendance-among-catholics-resumes-downward-slide.aspx

Attendance at our former Catholic church is way down. You can tell a difference looking at the parking lot on Sunday. A lot of my mom's friends (in their 60-70s) who are lifelong Catholics who never skipped weekly mass now go to the Episcopal church. I find it hard to believe the Catholic church is not feeling the effect of these scandals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fundamentally disagree that taking away my attendance and $10/week would change the hierarchy of the Church.

Yeah, not just YOU, but if EVERYONE did, the change would happen so fast you'd get whiplash from watching it. Guaranteed.

Are you not aware of the power of the people?

Are you not aware that it’s utterly ludicrous to think that EVERYONE is ever going to do what YOU prefer? Grow up.

First, it's not "what I prefer" but "what is clearly right".

Second, it may be ludicrous, but it is nice to dream that people will do the right thing, embrace their power and make changes happen.

I feel the same way about voting, even though only 56% of people do it (in the US). I still wish everyone would. If that means I have to "grow up". well, then, OK, I will take that criticism with pride.

Why are you quoting yourself? - "what is clearly right" - Should we close al the Catholic schools, Health Care clinics and hospitals too? It's good to have dreams though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fundamentally disagree that taking away my attendance and $10/week would change the hierarchy of the Church.

Yeah, not just YOU, but if EVERYONE did, the change would happen so fast you'd get whiplash from watching it. Guaranteed.

Are you not aware of the power of the people?

Are you not aware that it’s utterly ludicrous to think that EVERYONE is ever going to do what YOU prefer? Grow up.

First, it's not "what I prefer" but "what is clearly right".

Second, it may be ludicrous, but it is nice to dream that people will do the right thing, embrace their power and make changes happen.

I feel the same way about voting, even though only 56% of people do it (in the US). I still wish everyone would. If that means I have to "grow up". well, then, OK, I will take that criticism with pride.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fundamentally disagree that taking away my attendance and $10/week would change the hierarchy of the Church.

Yeah, not just YOU, but if EVERYONE did, the change would happen so fast you'd get whiplash from watching it. Guaranteed.

Are you not aware of the power of the people?

Are you not aware that it’s utterly ludicrous to think that EVERYONE is ever going to do what YOU prefer? Grow up.

Everywhere there are MEN with power over vulnerable people, you will have this.

Nobody has mentioned (on this thread, maybe elsewhere) the long article in the Atlantic by James Carroll, a long-ago priest who recently stopped going to mass and says Catholics need to take the church back and get rid of the priesthood as it is right now.

I'm not Catholic myself, but I had a long-time friend (passed away a few years ago and had been a housemate for several years at the time) who grew up Catholic and was very conflicted about his faith. He'd stayed away for a long time, then started going to mass a lot for a few years, then stopped going but did a huge amount of reading Catholic literature (Edith Stein, Pope Benedict, and less cerebral stuff as well) and carried his rosary, talked more with his brothers (also very conflicted about the church a lot. I often wondered if he had been a victim of priest abuse but he did not care for personal conversations, only very intellectual ones.

Anonymous wrote:I fundamentally disagree that taking away my attendance and $10/week would change the hierarchy of the Church.

Yeah, not just YOU, but if EVERYONE did, the change would happen so fast you'd get whiplash from watching it. Guaranteed.

Are you not aware of the power of the people?

I fundamentally disagree that taking away my attendance and $10/week would change the hierarchy of the Church. (I know, because I don’t attend Mass while the kids were young and nothing changed.). Now hat they’re older and we’re back to going, I figure we might as well try change from the inside. On sex abuse, gay rights, abortion and Josh control - all of it. From outside you can be too easily dismissed.

Anonymous wrote:I am happy with what I see from the clergy around me that they too are angry and are not at all happy with the mistakes of their older cohort. I think an enormous part of the Church hierarchy failed badly just as it has time and time again in the past) but the faith of the people has pulled it through. Being part of the charge is more important to me than protesting the errors by stepping away. That ultimately serves no purpose except to make a statement. “I’m leaving the Church!” Okay. Then what?

Catholics who leave must be “Catholic” in name only. If not they would understand that denying themselves the sacraments means they never had faith in them to begin with.

+1

I am happy with what I see from the clergy around me that they too are angry and are not at all happy with the mistakes of their older cohort. I think an enormous part of the Church hierarchy failed badly just as it has time and time again in the past) but the faith of the people has pulled it through. Being part of the charge is more important to me than protesting the errors by stepping away. That ultimately serves no purpose except to make a statement. “I’m leaving the Church!” Okay. Then what?

Catholics who leave must be “Catholic” in name only. If not they would understand that denying themselves the sacraments means they never had faith in them to begin with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me; it’s that being Catholic means more than the current church leaders or its hierarchy. I am vehemently against what the President and his party stands for, but I’m still an American.

+1000

No one is suggesting you not be catholic.

What is being suggested is that you withdraw your support of the church until things change. By withholding your money and attendance instead of your vote, as you withhold in your analogy.

DP. Because we don't follow people, we follow Jesus Christ. If you need money, why don't you just rob a bank? Withhold your own money and your own attendance. Worry about yourself.

Jesus Christ can be found outside the Catholic Church.

In fact, it's hard to imagine a nice guy like him being in the church. When he said "Suffer the little children unto me" I don't think he had in mind what so many priests have done to them and what so many others have covered up.

And democracy can be found outside of the US. Given this country’s current behavior, when are you immigrating to Canada? Taking your tax dollars away will get Trump’s attention.

Sure. He'll call you "smart" -- only idiots pay taxes.

And only idiots give money to the Catholic church. Cause that's actually optional.

Idiots also write like they speak.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me; it’s that being Catholic means more than the current church leaders or its hierarchy. I am vehemently against what the President and his party stands for, but I’m still an American.

+1000

No one is suggesting you not be catholic.

What is being suggested is that you withdraw your support of the church until things change. By withholding your money and attendance instead of your vote, as you withhold in your analogy.

DP. Because we don't follow people, we follow Jesus Christ. If you need money, why don't you just rob a bank? Withhold your own money and your own attendance. Worry about yourself.

Jesus Christ can be found outside the Catholic Church.

In fact, it's hard to imagine a nice guy like him being in the church. When he said "Suffer the little children unto me" I don't think he had in mind what so many priests have done to them and what so many others have covered up.

And democracy can be found outside of the US. Given this country’s current behavior, when are you immigrating to Canada? Taking your tax dollars away will get Trump’s attention.

Sure. He'll call you "smart" -- only idiots pay taxes.

And only idiots give money to the Catholic church. Cause that's actually optional.