Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this conversation. Everyone seems to think the key to turning schools is getting more middle class and upper middle class kids to attend — ok, if that’s the premise, fine. I’m not sure what I think about that but whatever. Now people want to push those middle and upper middle kids out to make more room for at-risk kids? That seems a little contradictory. It seems like all that will do is push those middle and upper middle class kids to the suburbs because their parents are not going to put up with driving to multiple schools every morning or being shunted into garbage schools.

It's not going to happen ever. As I said prior

WOTP is set in stone
EOTR is set in stone there actually need to be more schools closings. KIPP and DC PREP are running circles around DCPS
The interesting thing is what happens EOTP. That is where a cluster system might actually what but DCPS is too incompetent to pull it off. Instead we will have more brookland middle school situations

Seems like a lot of these issues could be addressed or at least lessened if the city bothered to kick out all the residency cheaters who don’t even live in the city

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing they need to start taking into account is that no one is locked into this city. Parents with resources (money, education) can and will move rather than sending their kids to sub-par schools.

The school district needs more high-resource students, not fewer.

How about we try to make the schools better, more attractive and fully resource them.

To the contrary: every family residing at subsidized housing in fact IS "locked into this city." They aren't moving from those addresses. But I'll correct that a bit: perhaps they would move if they were offered equivalent subsidized housing in another part of the city, in a neiborhood with higher test scores at the local schools. Then you would see whether "better shcools" would be an incentive for them to move.

I also must take issue with the statement that DCPS schools are not "fulled resource[d]" -- that was certainly true in the 1990s, but since 2005 or so, DCPS has been renovating schools like mad and there aren't any "I have no books or pencils" stories to be seen. The problem with DCPS schools' performance is certainly NOT a lack of money or resources devoted to low-income student bodies.

Yes. And the working class and/or working poor families are being displaced by gentrification. The economic inequality is getting worse in DC, not better.

Facts regarding displacement and the rate at which it's happening in DC -- "In the District, low-income residents are being pushed out of neighborhoods at some of the highest rates in the country, according to the Institute on Metropolitan Opportunity, which sought to track demographic and economic changes in neighborhoods in the 50 largest U.S. cities from 2000 to 2016." https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-the-district-gentrification-means-widespread-displacement-report-says/2019/04/26/950a0c00-6775-11e9-8985-4cf30147bdca_story.html?utm_term=.e5bc173ba2a0

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is “hefty analytical shit” MAYBE to someone who looks at box scores for fantasy baseball, but even then at a very low level.

It may not be heavy or advanced statistical research but is useful.

First section is an overview of what is being done in other jurisdictions to solve some of the same issues DCPS is facing, especially school segregation due to housing segregation in a neighborhood school system

It also explains DCPS’ goals (quality feeder patterns throughout the city, combatting segregation, keeping students from enrolling in or leaving DCPS for charters)) and strategies to reach those goals (more specialized programming such as Montessori, dual language at the elementary level and more career training and early college at the high school level).
.

This is the dumbest part of this entire DC school system. WHY on earth are we pitting charters against DCPS like they're something separate? They are not. They are still part of the public school system. Why on earth isn't there a strategic approach to support charter schools alongside DCPS, or any type of end game such as pairing up charters/failing DCPS, or maybe hybridizing, or even adopting some aspects of charter management into DCPS? Charters are essentially treated here as some kind of experiment gone awry, or as though they are private schools completely outside the public system. Something is seriously wrong if they are merely competing for students. A comprehensive approach should be possible.

Basically because the core mission of any bureaucracy is to protect itself. It's not about the overall education results. This is especially true in DC, with its complicated legacy of politics, class, race, etc. Neither what's called DCPS "Central" nor the WTU likes charters because they don''t follow their rules or their union contract.

I don’t understand this conversation. Everyone seems to think the key to turning schools is getting more middle class and upper middle class kids to attend — ok, if that’s the premise, fine. I’m not sure what I think about that but whatever. Now people want to push those middle and upper middle kids out to make more room for at-risk kids? That seems a little contradictory. It seems like all that will do is push those middle and upper middle class kids to the suburbs because their parents are not going to put up with driving to multiple schools every morning or being shunted into garbage schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is like 76 pages of slides on diversity in schools, integration, policy approaches, and all that from the Strategic School Planning Advisory Board last week. It is a shitload of stuff to get through and it looks really, really interesting. (Just if that's your thing, rather than coming here to complain about why Upper NW doesn't have everything all the time.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E29tovOkKM5u9z7kH3Oyf4lvKivPiPKL/view

Really interesting, thanks for sharing.

This is a shocking stat: "Since 2008, DCPS has yearly enrolled 500 to 1,000 additional Hispanic/Latino and White students, while enrolling 600 fewer Black or African American students on average."

Also, it's bizarre that nearly 5% of DCPS students come from "unknown Ward." Even with divorced homes, the kids would be assigned to a Ward of a parent or relative.

It looks like DCPS is seriously considering adding At-Risk preference to the lottery. That said, with OOB seats basically disappearing at all desirable schools within the next 2-4 years, I'm not sure the preference will help all that much.

Otherwise known as Ward 9 - PG County!

No. They are foster kids placed with parents outside the city, because there are too few foster parents who live in DC. Don't be an ass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is like 76 pages of slides on diversity in schools, integration, policy approaches, and all that from the Strategic School Planning Advisory Board last week. It is a shitload of stuff to get through and it looks really, really interesting. (Just if that's your thing, rather than coming here to complain about why Upper NW doesn't have everything all the time.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E29tovOkKM5u9z7kH3Oyf4lvKivPiPKL/view

Really interesting, thanks for sharing.

This is a shocking stat: "Since 2008, DCPS has yearly enrolled 500 to 1,000 additional Hispanic/Latino and White students, while enrolling 600 fewer Black or African American students on average."

Also, it's bizarre that nearly 5% of DCPS students come from "unknown Ward." Even with divorced homes, the kids would be assigned to a Ward of a parent or relative.

It looks like DCPS is seriously considering adding At-Risk preference to the lottery. That said, with OOB seats basically disappearing at all desirable schools within the next 2-4 years, I'm not sure the preference will help all that much.

Still worth it. If it helps a family get into a school that THEY prefer (like for location or sibling togetherness) that can be a real benefit to them.

Look at slide 66:
If you make At-Risk the first priority in the lottery, it would have only added 17 kids to NW DCPS in grades K-5 in the 2018 lottery. That's not much of an impact and will continue to dwindle as new housing is added in NW DC.

So? It might help kids get into better schools EOTP than they otherwise would.

It’s perfect because ward 3 parents can support it and feel righteous despite it not affecting them at all.

This is exactly why At-Risk alone isn't a winning option. DCPS will cram another major change into the system in the near future. My guess is that they eliminate by-right neighborhood elementary, instead assigning students to a cluster of potential elementary schools (the Louisville model). Each school will have a minimum At-Risk percentage floor (probably 10-15%). The student then lotteries into a school within their assigned cluster, with a guarantee of a seat at one of the schools. But, like the State Dept with 'hardship' postings, one or two schools in every assigned cluster will be in Ward 7 or 8. So you could potentially get Ward 2 kids 'losing' in their cluster lottery and being assigned to Ward 7.

It's not forced busing, but it will sting similarly for parents who don't get to attend their school a couple blocks away from their house.

Yup. DC should warn parents in big block letters before they plunk down $1.3 million for some tiny center hall colonial in AU Park, that instead of getting Janney, their kids could be sent to Mayor Marion S. Barry Elementary School in Ward 8.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is like 76 pages of slides on diversity in schools, integration, policy approaches, and all that from the Strategic School Planning Advisory Board last week. It is a shitload of stuff to get through and it looks really, really interesting. (Just if that's your thing, rather than coming here to complain about why Upper NW doesn't have everything all the time.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E29tovOkKM5u9z7kH3Oyf4lvKivPiPKL/view

Really interesting, thanks for sharing.

This is a shocking stat: "Since 2008, DCPS has yearly enrolled 500 to 1,000 additional Hispanic/Latino and White students, while enrolling 600 fewer Black or African American students on average."

Also, it's bizarre that nearly 5% of DCPS students come from "unknown Ward." Even with divorced homes, the kids would be assigned to a Ward of a parent or relative.

It looks like DCPS is seriously considering adding At-Risk preference to the lottery. That said, with OOB seats basically disappearing at all desirable schools within the next 2-4 years, I'm not sure the preference will help all that much.

Otherwise known as Ward 9 - PG County!

This is the kind of thing that makes me think, thank god my kids are in upper middle and early middle school.

These changes will not impact my family much.

There are so many things wrong with DCPS. Does anyone really think that DCPS Central office can engage in social engineering at this scale and not f*ck it up? I do not believe that. The key is to not screw up the parts of DCPS that are working reasonably well, while elevating the at-risk population. It can't be a zero sum game with some kids getting pulled out of neighborhood schools.

It is very telling to me that senior DC gov't people who make these decisions don't have kids in DCPS. Getting my two kids into the same school was a game changer for quality of life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is like 76 pages of slides on diversity in schools, integration, policy approaches, and all that from the Strategic School Planning Advisory Board last week. It is a shitload of stuff to get through and it looks really, really interesting. (Just if that's your thing, rather than coming here to complain about why Upper NW doesn't have everything all the time.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E29tovOkKM5u9z7kH3Oyf4lvKivPiPKL/view

Really interesting, thanks for sharing.

This is a shocking stat: "Since 2008, DCPS has yearly enrolled 500 to 1,000 additional Hispanic/Latino and White students, while enrolling 600 fewer Black or African American students on average."

Also, it's bizarre that nearly 5% of DCPS students come from "unknown Ward." Even with divorced homes, the kids would be assigned to a Ward of a parent or relative.

It looks like DCPS is seriously considering adding At-Risk preference to the lottery. That said, with OOB seats basically disappearing at all desirable schools within the next 2-4 years, I'm not sure the preference will help all that much.

Still worth it. If it helps a family get into a school that THEY prefer (like for location or sibling togetherness) that can be a real benefit to them.

Look at slide 66:
If you make At-Risk the first priority in the lottery, it would have only added 17 kids to NW DCPS in grades K-5 in the 2018 lottery. That's not much of an impact and will continue to dwindle as new housing is added in NW DC.

So? It might help kids get into better schools EOTP than they otherwise would.

It’s perfect because ward 3 parents can support it and feel righteous despite it not affecting them at all.

This is exactly why At-Risk alone isn't a winning option. DCPS will cram another major change into the system in the near future. My guess is that they eliminate by-right neighborhood elementary, instead assigning students to a cluster of potential elementary schools (the Louisville model). Each school will have a minimum At-Risk percentage floor (probably 10-15%). The student then lotteries into a school within their assigned cluster, with a guarantee of a seat at one of the schools. But, like the State Dept with 'hardship' postings, one or two schools in every assigned cluster will be in Ward 7 or 8. So you could potentially get Ward 2 kids 'losing' in their cluster lottery and being assigned to Ward 7.

It's not forced busing, but it will sting similarly for parents who don't get to attend their school a couple blocks away from their house.

It will more than “sting” - I’ll move - I’m not dealing with getting two kids to potentially different schools, with one or both being the other side of the river from where I live. I stayed in DC for the commute. Once you take that away, why am I staying? Excellent schools? Low taxes? Amazing city services?

Anonymous wrote:The thing they need to start taking into account is that no one is locked into this city. Parents with resources (money, education) can and will move rather than sending their kids to sub-par schools.

The school district needs more high-resource students, not fewer.

How about we try to make the schools better, more attractive and fully resource them.

To the contrary: every family residing at subsidized housing in fact IS "locked into this city." They aren't moving from those addresses. But I'll correct that a bit: perhaps they would move if they were offered equivalent subsidized housing in another part of the city, in a neiborhood with higher test scores at the local schools. Then you would see whether "better shcools" would be an incentive for them to move.

I also must take issue with the statement that DCPS schools are not "fulled resource[d]" -- that was certainly true in the 1990s, but since 2005 or so, DCPS has been renovating schools like mad and there aren't any "I have no books or pencils" stories to be seen. The problem with DCPS schools' performance is certainly NOT a lack of money or resources devoted to low-income student bodies.

It's really the intersection between gentrification & income inequality & charters that makes this conversation so nuanced in DC. In gentrifying neighborhoods like on the Hill where rich white parents shun the local schools, a true diversity effort by DCPS would mean making concerted and real efforts to provide curriculums and adminisrative structures that attract those parents. In totally gentrified/white neighborhoods WOTB, diversity.at-risk set-asides would help. In all-black Ward 7 and 8 schools, it seems harder to see how those schools can be made diverse. The choice would seem to be to either to focus on more city-wide charters that could attract diverse kids from all parts of the city; or forget diversity as a goal and improve the schools there on their own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the DCPS definition of "at risk"? I support giving access to at risk kids, but what is DCPS going to do to make it work beyond just providing the slot in the school. Is DCPS going to provide transportation and the kinds of wrap around services mentioned above? If part of "at risk" is challenging at home situations such as homelessness, who is going to keep an eye on and/or advocate for individual children when their parents cannot?

At risk = homeless, receiving TANF or food stamps, in foster care, or a high school student at least one year behind on progress to graduation

Wow. Just let that sink in a minute. That means that almost 50% of below high school aged kids in all DC schools are either homeless, receiving food stamps or TANF ("on welfare" as we used to call it), or in foster care. How terrible.

Yes. And it also shows how ridiculous it is for people to say "DCPS should just improve schools EOTP." It isn't that simple and will take far more than just DCPS to change outcomes for these children.

Look folks this isn't complicated

No one is going to mess with anyone WOTP. Pretty soon the whole Wilson Pyramid is going to be neighborhood only.

EOTR is going to suck forever sorry I don't care if it's not PC to say that. It's not a racial thing, it's a generational poverty thing. The best you can do over there is to have a magnet for the better performers. Guess what this is what KIPP and DC Prep already do. As others have said people EOTR are not interested in going to a school halfway across the city.

The battle lines are being drawn about what happens EOTP. That is where some serious redistricting needs to happen and that is where a cluster system would actually work because that is the one are of the city where there are still upper middle and lower income folks mixed in

Knowing DCPS though they will F it up just like they did with the cluster fiasco on Capitol Hill last time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the DCPS definition of "at risk"? I support giving access to at risk kids, but what is DCPS going to do to make it work beyond just providing the slot in the school. Is DCPS going to provide transportation and the kinds of wrap around services mentioned above? If part of "at risk" is challenging at home situations such as homelessness, who is going to keep an eye on and/or advocate for individual children when their parents cannot?

At risk = homeless, receiving TANF or food stamps, in foster care, or a high school student at least one year behind on progress to graduation

Wow. Just let that sink in a minute. That means that almost 50% of below high school aged kids in all DC schools are either homeless, receiving food stamps or TANF ("on welfare" as we used to call it), or in foster care. How terrible.