I have an 8th grader and I've felt this way about her since she was much younger. She's just not someone who thrives in a traditional school setting and I cannot imagine she's going to matriculate to college in a traditional way. For reference (since folks seem to think this is important), her father and I have advanced degrees and my older child is definitely college-bound.

My kid is bright and she can learn anything she sets her mind to, but school just isn't her thing. I decided a while ago I can choose to spend the rest of her years in my house in a constant battle or I can try something else. I have chosen the latter. We are lucky to live in Fairfax County and that means access to the academies system in high school. She's deciding between firefighting and the LPN program.

The rule I've set is that she must maintain decent grades in her core classes and other than that, I'm fine with either of those options or another one if she changes her mind. She feels great about this path and I feel great about not spending the next four years trying to force my square peg into a round hole. And if she decides to head to college anyway, that's great too. I just want her to have a viable future beyond high school.

OP ~ you and your uneducated family can do whatever you like

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ my cousin did it that way (community college) then transferred to a California University. And guess what? Her GPA was much higher than it would have been had she done all four years at the Cal University because grading was easier at the community college.

How disrespectful of your cousin to say such a thing. There is no way you could k is such a thing.

I have a few relatives that teach both in community and four year private colleges. They say the classes and standards are identical. They can’t understand why people would take their classes in the four year institution.

They must be teaching at noncompetitive four year colleges. I know people who have taken classes at both. There is no comparison.

California is different.

Anonymous wrote:Your poor kid OP! You've already ruined his/her life. Maybe put them up for adoption.

OP here. How so? By teaching critical thinking? Not to believe all marketing hype?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ my cousin did it that way (community college) then transferred to a California University. And guess what? Her GPA was much higher than it would have been had she done all four years at the Cal University because grading was easier at the community college.

How disrespectful of your cousin to say such a thing. There is no way you could k is such a thing.

I have a few relatives that teach both in community and four year private colleges. They say the classes and standards are identical. They can’t understand why people would take their classes in the four year institution.

They must be teaching at noncompetitive four year colleges. I know people who have taken classes at both. There is no comparison.

I attended a California community college before attending Berkeley. The education was better at the community college in the sense that I had smaller classes and more work was required of me-- papers due every week, labs every other day, etc. Far more diverse and international group of students at Berkeley than the community college, but I met good people at both. I think doing both is the perfect answer-- the schools complement each other and you become enriched by both experiences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ my cousin did it that way (community college) then transferred to a California University. And guess what? Her GPA was much higher than it would have been had she done all four years at the Cal University because grading was easier at the community college.

How disrespectful of your cousin to say such a thing. There is no way you could k is such a thing.

I have a few relatives that teach both in community and four year private colleges. They say the classes and standards are identical. They can’t understand why people would take their classes in the four year institution.

They must be teaching at noncompetitive four year colleges. I know people who have taken classes at both. There is no comparison.

Your poor kid OP! You've already ruined his/her life. Maybe put them up for adoption.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the (mostly) thoughtful responses. I think what bothers me looking down the road is that this has all the signs of a bubble: overvaluation, artificial scarcity, lack of regulation, cheating, etc. It's not an investment I would otherwise make. The value just isn't there, perhaps aside from a number of STEM programs.

My kids aren't trust fund kids. Anything spent on their education is earned by us, or is a loan. The whole approach to this seems crazy to me -- no transparency, corruption, very little concrete ability to perceive value. And the idea of just hand-waving how the "education" is worth it just seems like so much marketing fluff from this distance.

Yes, this does look like a bubble (cost vs value) but the cheating and artificial scarcity is not a systemic issue. Your kid doesn't need to go to a school that is $70K per year and only accepts 10% of its applicants. But college is now equivalent to a high school degree for many careers. Bottom line, I think you are overthinking this; your child is in 6th grade. Save money, if you can, to help your child go to college, trade school or start a business when the time comes, whichever is appropriate for their situation and need. If your child wants to be a chef, they should go to culinary school; scientist, an in-state college; launch a software company, you can help them fund their start-up... There is no absolute path or answer to your question/concern.

I think the cheating is systemic. It's not just the elite colleges. People are deluding themselves. Varsity Blues is just the tip of the iceberg.

What do you mean by cheating? Students cheating on school work or do you mean parents cheating to get into mid-tier schools or public institutions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the (mostly) thoughtful responses. I think what bothers me looking down the road is that this has all the signs of a bubble: overvaluation, artificial scarcity, lack of regulation, cheating, etc. It's not an investment I would otherwise make. The value just isn't there, perhaps aside from a number of STEM programs.

My kids aren't trust fund kids. Anything spent on their education is earned by us, or is a loan. The whole approach to this seems crazy to me -- no transparency, corruption, very little concrete ability to perceive value. And the idea of just hand-waving how the "education" is worth it just seems like so much marketing fluff from this distance.

Yes, this does look like a bubble (cost vs value) but the cheating and artificial scarcity is not a systemic issue. Your kid doesn't need to go to a school that is $70K per year and only accepts 10% of its applicants. But college is now equivalent to a high school degree for many careers. Bottom line, I think you are overthinking this; your child is in 6th grade. Save money, if you can, to help your child go to college, trade school or start a business when the time comes, whichever is appropriate for their situation and need. If your child wants to be a chef, they should go to culinary school; scientist, an in-state college; launch a software company, you can help them fund their start-up... There is no absolute path or answer to your question/concern.

I think the cheating is systemic. It's not just the elite colleges. People are deluding themselves. Varsity Blues is just the tip of the iceberg.

Anonymous wrote:^^ my cousin did it that way (community college) then transferred to a California University. And guess what? Her GPA was much higher than it would have been had she done all four years at the Cal University because grading was easier at the community college.

How disrespectful of your cousin to say such a thing. There is no way you could k is such a thing.

I have a few relatives that teach both in community and four year private colleges. They say the classes and standards are identical. They can’t understand why people would take their classes in the four year institution.

Every response has value here. I won't repost to quote, but the PP with a talented music kid outlined the steps to future success in the field he's passionate about. This is huge. Granted, he is exceptionally talented in his target field and it will likely lead to success and a degree concurrently with work experience which is necessary for his industry.

Another PP outlined cc focused on trade/vocational education. The value in this post is the unspoken truth that while the end result is well paying, the process is long from apprenticeship to job security. Good info for parents/kids to know.

A college degree is what a high school degree was 20+ years ago, necessary. A graduate degree is what a college degree was 10 years ago-present, sometimes necessary even for the non medical/academia fields. The goal post moves.

In my opinion and how I guide my son is that a college degree is necessary for his intended goal. Grad school may be necessary depending on his specialized focus. Experience and internships are most valuable and may substitute grad level degree if a company is invested in his experience and talent. I remember in my circle years ago that many post undergrads accepted jobs at companies that paid for further education (grad degree) based on performance and likelihood of advancement within the company. They invested in their employees.

Many students don't know what their intended career is before applying to undergrad (or not). They need a path. Help them choose the path that makes sense. Don't go against the standard requirements for success based on emotional decisions because the system is flawed. Choose a school or path that aligns with your kid's values, talent or limitations.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the (mostly) thoughtful responses. I think what bothers me looking down the road is that this has all the signs of a bubble: overvaluation, artificial scarcity, lack of regulation, cheating, etc. It's not an investment I would otherwise make. The value just isn't there, perhaps aside from a number of STEM programs.

My kids aren't trust fund kids. Anything spent on their education is earned by us, or is a loan. The whole approach to this seems crazy to me -- no transparency, corruption, very little concrete ability to perceive value. And the idea of just hand-waving how the "education" is worth it just seems like so much marketing fluff from this distance.

Yes, this does look like a bubble (cost vs value) but the cheating and artificial scarcity is not a systemic issue. Your kid doesn't need to go to a school that is $70K per year and only accepts 10% of its applicants. But college is now equivalent to a high school degree for many careers. Bottom line, I think you are overthinking this; your child is in 6th grade. Save money, if you can, to help your child go to college, trade school or start a business when the time comes, whichever is appropriate for their situation and need. If your child wants to be a chef, they should go to culinary school; scientist, an in-state college; launch a software company, you can help them fund their start-up... There is no absolute path or answer to your question/concern.

OP here. Thanks for all the (mostly) thoughtful responses. I think what bothers me looking down the road is that this has all the signs of a bubble: overvaluation, artificial scarcity, lack of regulation, cheating, etc. It's not an investment I would otherwise make. The value just isn't there, perhaps aside from a number of STEM programs.

My kids aren't trust fund kids. Anything spent on their education is earned by us, or is a loan. The whole approach to this seems crazy to me -- no transparency, corruption, very little concrete ability to perceive value. And the idea of just hand-waving how the "education" is worth it just seems like so much marketing fluff from this distance.

Anonymous wrote:State schools are now $25,000 to 30,000 each year all in. Most kids take 5 or 6 years to finish. Pretty nuts.

I assume by "pretty nuts" you are referring, in addition to the price, to the 5-6 year degree track? That's bananas.

State schools are now $25,000 to 30,000 each year all in. Most kids take 5 or 6 years to finish. Pretty nuts.