Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:oh, and another thing I noticed - Bloodwork is much more a part of routine care with children in Europe
Than in the US. because omg the child is going to scream!!

scratches head...Why is bloodwork a part of standard care there? No reason to do blood draws in kids unless they're presenting with some condition that would warrant it. Can't imagine ordering blood draws on a healthy little one.

so that you could rule out serious conditions perhaps? doctors can leukemia in young “healthy” ’children during regular checkups through routine bloodwork.

but yeah, knocking children unconscious so that dentist can work at peace on their baby teeth while not doing regular bloodwork because omg the finger prick makes a lot of sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are a health practitioner, and need to get over your judgment and generalities, or get out of your profession.

You were once a young, inexperienced person. Maybe you didn’t have the internet and media at your fingertips, which is a game changer for how ANYONE gains information.

Seems to me you and your husband aren’t good health educators, or very good with communicating with your clientele on their level. Of course, based on your dripping with judgement and disdain post, I’m not surprised that you’re that way in real life. They’re not listening and communicating with you honestly because they KNOW you think you’re better than them. Sooner or later, they’ll find other practices, which, the universe willing, they should.

I’ve found the anti-vaxer.

OP doesn’t sound any more judgmental than anyone else who has to deal with people with no education who think they know all.

Yes, even doctors are allowed to be frustrated with their clients. I’m
A teacher and I’m constantly annoyed with parents. It’s frustrating ing when people think they know best, as if my education and experience means nothing.

Can’t imagine how frustrated I’d be if I was a doctor and spent twice as long in school only to have some 22-year-old tell me I was wrong.

Nope. I’m a MUCH older mom, and children are vaccinated for even stuff that many people delay. I got boosters during pregnancy. I follow antibiotics to the T. I understand science. But then again, I was a nurse for years, and now work in a completely unrelated STEM field.

Here’s the thing. Your, and OP’s b is primarily to cOmmunicate and to EDUCATE. You both sound like you’re in the wrong field. No one is telling you you’re wrong, so you need to get TF over your ego, and figure out how to take these people to a higher level of wellness and understanding. It’s your JOB. FWIW, the age discrimination is just annoying, because any client (or patient or student or whatever) falls into the same category of now having the years of education that you do. You ask leading questions, yiu address their concerns, you educate based on that.

This is why med school (and entrance into other professions) should be based on other things purely than just grades. You’re dealing with real people, in real circumstance, at their weakest and most afraid. The fact that you can diagnose and prescribe does not make yiu a good practitioner. A better role may be research.

I think the problem is communication and education from medical personnel can't compete against Dr. Google and social media.

Anonymous wrote:Im not an antivaxer... Just to be clear and I've never not finished antibiotics.

I think the best doctors act as a partner not an authority.

My experience with doctors is that they are.making a "best guess" which works 90% of the time.

Pediatricians are usually less pompous than an orthopedic ... In my experience.

Also doctors often are thinking "what will insurance cover"... What is the fastest fix.

If you approach everything as the authority you will fail. If you treat people as intelligent people able to make decision you have will have less frustration and better results.

Also, you use western medicine and overlook other ways to treat your patients... Like diet change or meditation or acupuncture.

If the person was able to tell they doctor they are not using antibiotics instead of pretending because the doctor would be a pompous jerk the doctor would actually had the right information.

These two statements in bold are borderline obnoxious.

I'm sorry that you do not understand this, but my medical degree actually DOES make me an authority on medicine, medical studies, and the practice of good medicine. I did not put myself through 8 years of med school to "partner" with or defer to non-medically-licensed parents with regard to my medical diagnosis or prescription. Please do not equate your Google search with my years of study and time spent as a medical practitioner.

I know you have opinions that are based on the scary things you read on the internet or your friend Becky's story about the autistic child down the block. But please realize that the opinions that I have (what you refer to as my "best guess") are based on knowledge that my years of study have garnered, studies that you have not taken the time to read (--not that I would expect you to, as that is literally my JOB!), and hours and hours over years and years of seeing patients with similar presentation of symptoms and effective treatment. So even though you can argue that we all have our opinions, it is important to recognize the basis for these opinions and not insist that they are equivalent. If they are...then why bother having pediatricians go to med school at all. Just take your child home and do what you want. ??

That said, I am happy to discuss WHY I am recommending a certain line of treatment so that you feel informed and educated about my reasoning. But I am not inclined to debate you about it or entertain your notions that what you read in some pop-culture magazine about the latest treatment for strep is the course of treatment I need to prescribe. I am happy to part ways with parents who don't see eye to eye with me on this. And good luck to you.

Anonymous wrote:oh, and another thing I noticed - Bloodwork is much more a part of routine care with children in Europe
Than in the US. because omg the child is going to scream!!

scratches head...Why is bloodwork a part of standard care there? No reason to do blood draws in kids unless they're presenting with some condition that would warrant it. Can't imagine ordering blood draws on a healthy little one.

Anonymous wrote:oh, and another thing I noticed - Bloodwork is much more a part of routine care with children in Europe
Than in the US. because omg the child is going to scream!!

Where is the evidence that supports routine pediatric labwork, above what is recommended by the AAP?

Citation, please, or I'm going to side-eye you for preferring to make children scream for no good reason, just because you seem to like it.

oh, and another thing I noticed - Bloodwork is much more a part of routine care with children in Europe
Than in the US. because omg the child is going to scream!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

I don't discount your and your husband's experiences, but most of the anti-vaxing Natural News parents I've known are UMC 30-something white people.

Exhibit A: the Waldorf school near my home in Northern California costs a whole lotta money and, until the "philosophical" vax exemptions law was passed in CA, had about 80% non-vaccinated students. Their parents were wealthy, highly educated, and largely in their late 30s/40s.

Super-crunch parents in middle age are as woo-filled as super-crunch parents in their 20s, I think.

Anonymous wrote:I think this comes down to a combination of factors:
1) readily available unfiltered information online
2) poor science education in this country
3) poor media education /critical thinking
4) women having negative experiences with medical authorities
5) genuine limitations of our mainstream medical model that are not widely acknowledged

Health practitioners really need to acknowledge the problem on a holistic level and not demonize individual patients for their attitude. Otherwise it will become even more antagonistic and worsen the problem.

For ex., antibiotics. Clearly needed to prevent complications of strep in children. The patient refusing to give them does have some information on the negative implications of routine over-prescription but doesn’t know enough to ask the right questions about risks to make an informed judgment. Knows how to read online but not how to look for proper research. Understands one issue but overgeneralizes. And may have had an uninformed doctor treating her in the past. I’ve encountered many such doctors myself, and frankly having taught in top universities I would say that often the very top rung of students doesn’t go into clinical medicine but into research. Not every doctor is a great doctor.

If we had a sane government, we’d be backing education in all these areas as well as partnerships between doctors, teachers, and public health professionals. But right now the country is governed by an anti-vaxx president and an administration that cuts public health and education funding across the board. How are we going to address the problem holistically without some kind of organized effort between different spheres?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

in a vast majority of cases there will be no abscesses. oh and when my oldest was 4 she got 2 cavities filled without anesthesia (in Europe obviously). no fbi ting od dingers, ni screaming, regular visits to dentist resumed with no issue. perhaps Americans should parent their children instead of drugging them.

I'm not a young mom but have come to learn that you need to question doctors about a lot of things because if there's truly a health problem they might not be looking at it comprehensively. My child has had recurrent serious infections so has been on antibiotics a lot. I think the general push against antibiotics because of antibiotic resistance has not been coupled with doctors explaining why the antibiotic is needed and explaining that the resistance is worsened by not taking the full course. I've had nurses at the school and nurses within my own pediatrician's office question antibiotics use. The message is out that antibiotics can be bad and doctors aren't explaining well enough why they are good and how to keep them working well. It took too many infections for me to get doctors to take the problem seriously and now I'm having similar issues getting specialists to help me get to the root of why they are happening vs. just treating each one as it comes.

Anonymous wrote:I agree mostly with Op. I am shocked at the anti medical advice rhetoric pouring out of lower class young white women. Even on my Facebook feeds it’s ridiculous.

But I will say that while pregnant my OBs didn’t listen to me at all. I didn’t want to be induced and I was shocked at how they reacted. I still don’t believe my inductions were necessary. But my OBs pulled the insurance card. They said if I refused induction they couldn’t be held responsible and discussed having me sign papers from Kaiser. I am healthy, gained 25lbs, was under 35 and had two children easily. Alas my inductions took over 40 hours on pitocin.

I am so sorry. I had a similar experience with a twin birth on pitocin for days. I don’t think anyone can understand that unless they’ve been through it. 10 years later I’m still bitter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

The parents of this 14month old would disagree
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kxan.com/amp/news/local/austin/family-of-toddler-who-died-after-dental-visit-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit/994713937

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baby Boomers (or whatever), with regards to millennials: they don’t understand the Pericles of critical thinking!

Same people: those illenials don’t blindly follow instructions and obey my expertise immediately after getting it! They don’t respect my purported knowledge and “expertise”. Why do they ask so many questions?!

Yes, these are both problems.

It would be nice if the people in question would question authority in a way that used critical thinking skills, rather than just whatever sounded most dramatic and exciting, but that does seem rather rare.

Well, one person on this side is educated and PAID (quite well) to offer a service to, educate, and assist the other.

The other gets to be who ever they are.

Also, there’s the Oath. Seems so many doctors forget that they are there to HELP, not just “treat”.

They do. And if either party to the interaction believes it is not helpful to engage together, then either can say this is not working. With the exception, of course, of actual emergency medical services.

People get to be who they are. Some ways of being are going to be more helpful than others, and no matter how good the professional is at every aspect of the job, they cannot help people who are not engaged effectively. Both parties have rights and responsibilities. That doesn't mean there isn't more weight on the physician to keep trying and exert more patience, calmness, and understanding, but we are all in this together.

By "the Oath," you mean Hippocratic? It's a lot more complicated than that. There is not a single oath anymore. The original also has wording that prohibits being involved in the removal of kidney (or gallbladder) stones, and a vow not to prescribe things like chemotherapy. So, not really up to date.