Anonymous
04/02/2019 22:06
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:I put my mother in a nursing home. Trying to deal with the issues in the nursing home, visiting often, being frustrated with poor care, and seeing her so sad and depressed also took a terrible toll and was time consuming. I felt horribly guilty when I visited and horribly guilty when I didn't. Signs of neglect were there and yet it was really hard to get her the care she needed. She basically stopped talking and sat staring out a window empty. She hated that after a full life, her last years and death were going to be spend in a setting where she felt uncared for and mistreated.
While my home life was busy and I felt that I had rationalized why a nursing home was best, if I could do it again, I would bring her home in a heartbeat. The pain and angst we both suffered and that I continue to feel (she has since passed away) will never go away. It was traumatic in the end and really took more of my time and mental energy than if I had brought her home and hired help
did your mother have dementia?
Anonymous
04/02/2019 21:57
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Why are they dialyzing someone who has advanced dementia and Parkinson’s? That is cruel and crazy. It is time to move to a hospice, stop the dialysis, and let him pass peacefully. No one wants to live like that. It is no life.
You are in a sense lucky with dialysis, at least you are given a way out. We did that with my mother and I still think it was the kindest thing we could do. We probably should have done it sooner but we wanted to exhaust all reasonable avenues first.
You are in a sense lucky with dialysis, at least you are given a way out. We did that with my mother and I still think it was the kindest thing we could do. We probably should have done it sooner but we wanted to exhaust all reasonable avenues first.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 21:41
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
You have a responsibility to provide a safe and stable home for your children. Living with an adult with dementia and hallucinations will make that near impossible. There will be crisis and chaos at every turn. I think it’s great that you want to help, but it’s a definite no in your situation.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 20:18
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:I put my mother in a nursing home. Trying to deal with the issues in the nursing home, visiting often, being frustrated with poor care, and seeing her so sad and depressed also took a terrible toll and was time consuming. I felt horribly guilty when I visited and horribly guilty when I didn't. Signs of neglect were there and yet it was really hard to get her the care she needed. She basically stopped talking and sat staring out a window empty. She hated that after a full life, her last years and death were going to be spend in a setting where she felt uncared for and mistreated.
While my home life was busy and I felt that I had rationalized why a nursing home was best, if I could do it again, I would bring her home in a heartbeat. The pain and angst we both suffered and that I continue to feel (she has since passed away) will never go away. It was traumatic in the end and really took more of my time and mental energy than if I had brought her home and hired help
That’s heat-wrenching. Remember, though, it is easier to comparing what would have been better without knowledge of exactly how hard that would have been — how much time in cooking and cleaning and shopping, how frustrating to have no refuge or time away, and what orher needs or people in the household would have suffered some neglect by necessity.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 20:08
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
I put my mother in a nursing home. Trying to deal with the issues in the nursing home, visiting often, being frustrated with poor care, and seeing her so sad and depressed also took a terrible toll and was time consuming. I felt horribly guilty when I visited and horribly guilty when I didn't. Signs of neglect were there and yet it was really hard to get her the care she needed. She basically stopped talking and sat staring out a window empty. She hated that after a full life, her last years and death were going to be spend in a setting where she felt uncared for and mistreated.
While my home life was busy and I felt that I had rationalized why a nursing home was best, if I could do it again, I would bring her home in a heartbeat. The pain and angst we both suffered and that I continue to feel (she has since passed away) will never go away. It was traumatic in the end and really took more of my time and mental energy than if I had brought her home and hired help
While my home life was busy and I felt that I had rationalized why a nursing home was best, if I could do it again, I would bring her home in a heartbeat. The pain and angst we both suffered and that I continue to feel (she has since passed away) will never go away. It was traumatic in the end and really took more of my time and mental energy than if I had brought her home and hired help
Anonymous
04/02/2019 20:00
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:I work for APS and investigate elder abuse. I haven’t read the full entire thread but I have this recommendation for you:
Don’t.
Medicaid may for some partial in home care but it will never be enough and they do not pay for care at night. Which means someone will have to be there to redirect him, change him, tend to his needs for a condition change, etc. There was mention that he may be sharing a room with your children? Don’t. That’s completely inappropriate. When he comes bed bound and soils himself, how are you going to change him in front of your children? Adult BM and bodily fluids smell terribl.
Even the best and most well equipped caregivers and families who have the resources for out of pocket care struggle to care for an aging parent. It sounds to me like your FIL has minimal resources and this would be a significant strain on your family. This sounds like a recipe for burnout and he will be harder to find care for once he’s in your home as the state and case managers see it as less of a priority if he’s housed with family.
Look, not all nursing homes are bad but do your research. Try to find a nursing home that accepts Medicaid but is not mostly occupied by Medicaid residents. Look on nursing home compare and review inspection reports. Accept that your FIL will not get a private room as Medicaid does not pay for it. Look at the food (which is a huge contributor to quality of life, helps reduce weight loss and promote wound healing, etc) and the smell. If you walk in and immediately smell B.O and poop, it’s not going to be a decent facility. Talk to the director of nursing and read Yelp reviews with a grain of salt.
Your best bet is for your FIL to sell his home if he owns, and for both of them to buy into a continuing care community that provides independent, assisted, and memory care who will transition him to Medicaid once he “spends down.” I’ve seen the best care in continuing communities.
Some of this is incorrect. You go into a nursing home directly from the hospital under medicare which gives better choices. Then when you are in you apply for medicaid and if eligible you can stay in that home if they accept medicaid. Most on the surface look better than they are. My loved one has a private room on medicaid so it is possible depending on what is available at the time and the nursing home. Most with the level that FIL is at will smell pretty bad as most only bathe residents 2 times a week and most are not able to go to the bathroom themselves.
Medicaid does not pay for in home care except if they want you out as it is cheaper and its only a few hours a week. Some states do have medicaid that pays for in home care but not here, CA for example does.
Talk to the ombudsman, not just online. Most of us do not post online due to retaliation.
He needs significant care and OP is not willing so this is a non-issue. OP needs to stay out of it as she will be more annoying than helpful.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 19:54
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What is the plan for MIL once FIL passes?
I would help them. I'm currently in a similar situation and am having my parents move in. My mother will live by herself if my father passes, though, and then my siblings will help her if needed later. I'm pretty sure I'd make the same decisions even if I knew taking mom in now meant I'd have her forever, but I'm not totally sure.
Step MIL is only 55 and able-bodied. She can't work however because FIL's needs are so great. So, we would have to assume (state clearly) that she would move out upon his passing. He may live for 10 years - we don't know! He is physically well enough, despite his many, many issues, to live for a while. His brain, however, isn't working well.
She would have to care for him. We are not volunteering to care for him. Our house is a place to live. But, I know the lines would get blurry, and that's part of what concerns me.
This is not realistic...
I bet MIL is already exhausted from caring for him alone. What happens in 5 years when he needs diapers... and help bathing... and also wanders around the house at night potentially getting hurt or turning on the stove and forgetting? Who’s going to drive FIL to appointments?
What’s the plan if MIL gets sick? I’m not even talking a major medical issue - what if she has the flu? Is she still going to be the only one changing diapers, bathing and babysitting FIL? What if MIL breaks a leg or arm? That’s at least 2 months where all his caretaking falls on you. What if she has to go out of town for a wedding/funeral/whatever? What if she has to go to a doctors appointment?
There’s about zero chance that you and DH don’t end up being directly involved in his care. You need to come to terms with this before you invite them to live with you.
It is if the three adults all pitched in. I did it mostly alone. It was miserable but doable. The real issue was not having an aide and at some point not being able to leave the house due to safety issues which was an issue for my child/preschool, etc.
Take a look at the bolder in OPs post - she and DH do not want to pitch in - at all. They are only willing to provide FIL/MIL with a place to stay. They want MIL to be responsible for all of FILs care. — That is what I said is unrealistic.
OP either needs to come to terms with helping with FILs care or not invite them to move in. It’s going to lead to a lot of resentment if they move in and OP and DH end up having to do much more than they were prepared for.
+1
“Just a place to live” concept is not happening
Anonymous
04/02/2019 18:27
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Please meet with an elder care social worker/ consultant and with hospice. You need to hear from people who really know what you would be getting into.
Unless you can pay for almost round the clock care (eventually - because your MIL will absolutely hit her limit at some point at what she can physically do), this sounds like a really bad idea...
And your kids would need to share *your* bathroom - not his.
Unless you can pay for almost round the clock care (eventually - because your MIL will absolutely hit her limit at some point at what she can physically do), this sounds like a really bad idea...
And your kids would need to share *your* bathroom - not his.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 18:22
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:You and DH will not get much work done when those two move in.
+1
working from home makes it even more complicated as you will have to help with constant emergencies. you will likely become inefficient and distracted at work and could even lose your jobs because of it.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 18:14
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
You and DH will not get much work done when those two move in.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 18:11
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
My FIL had dementia and had to move out of our home within a year of moving in with MIL because he was pulling his pants down and entering the kids’ rooms and peeing on the furniture at night. He also had to be monitored constantly by an adult because he would turn on the stove or open the refrigerator and forget about it. He peed in our new air filter and the children’s toy box. He would snap at the children and the housecleaner for talking his things or making too much noise. MIL still lives with us and has vision issues so must be driven by one of us to all errands or appointments since she does not trust Uber or Lyft. You are opening a Pandora’s Box if they move in, trust me.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 17:01
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What is the plan for MIL once FIL passes?
I would help them. I'm currently in a similar situation and am having my parents move in. My mother will live by herself if my father passes, though, and then my siblings will help her if needed later. I'm pretty sure I'd make the same decisions even if I knew taking mom in now meant I'd have her forever, but I'm not totally sure.
Step MIL is only 55 and able-bodied. She can't work however because FIL's needs are so great. So, we would have to assume (state clearly) that she would move out upon his passing. He may live for 10 years - we don't know! He is physically well enough, despite his many, many issues, to live for a while. His brain, however, isn't working well.
She would have to care for him. We are not volunteering to care for him. Our house is a place to live. But, I know the lines would get blurry, and that's part of what concerns me.
OP, I'm sorry to say this but based on what you said he's not going to live for ten more years. With Parkinsons, AND dementia, your body forgets how to swallow food and saliva. You choke and/or starve. Also, you can't say "You can live in this room but we won't care for you." Your MIL will need respite care. It's VERY hard to care for someone with dementia. FIL will not be among his familiar home and will be scared a lot. He will lash out. He is not going to simply start thriving because being around your kids makes him happy. These are degenerative diseases.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 16:53
Subject: Re:Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
I hate nursing homes and I am generally inclined to say yes on taking parents and in laws.
But this is a hard pass. I too have 3 kids and we both work full time and no way would I take them in in your situation. The main problem here is that, if they live with you, they are your responsibility. You wil be heavily involved in your FILs care and bear all the consequences of his numerous issues. Oh, and when he passes it will be hard to kick out step MIL. It will be a totally different mindset, her expectations will change etc etc. so you will likely spend all of your kid years with heavily burdened by taking care of your in-laws.
And that assumes that you can actually do it. But you can’t! Do not enter this arrangement as hard as it is not to move them in now it will be a million times harder when you try to get out of it. Give them money, rent them a different space, find another way to help. This will ruin you.
But this is a hard pass. I too have 3 kids and we both work full time and no way would I take them in in your situation. The main problem here is that, if they live with you, they are your responsibility. You wil be heavily involved in your FILs care and bear all the consequences of his numerous issues. Oh, and when he passes it will be hard to kick out step MIL. It will be a totally different mindset, her expectations will change etc etc. so you will likely spend all of your kid years with heavily burdened by taking care of your in-laws.
And that assumes that you can actually do it. But you can’t! Do not enter this arrangement as hard as it is not to move them in now it will be a million times harder when you try to get out of it. Give them money, rent them a different space, find another way to help. This will ruin you.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 16:24
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
I work for APS and investigate elder abuse. I haven’t read the full entire thread but I have this recommendation for you:
Don’t.
Medicaid may for some partial in home care but it will never be enough and they do not pay for care at night. Which means someone will have to be there to redirect him, change him, tend to his needs for a condition change, etc. There was mention that he may be sharing a room with your children? Don’t. That’s completely inappropriate. When he comes bed bound and soils himself, how are you going to change him in front of your children? Adult BM and bodily fluids smell terribl.
Even the best and most well equipped caregivers and families who have the resources for out of pocket care struggle to care for an aging parent. It sounds to me like your FIL has minimal resources and this would be a significant strain on your family. This sounds like a recipe for burnout and he will be harder to find care for once he’s in your home as the state and case managers see it as less of a priority if he’s housed with family.
Look, not all nursing homes are bad but do your research. Try to find a nursing home that accepts Medicaid but is not mostly occupied by Medicaid residents. Look on nursing home compare and review inspection reports. Accept that your FIL will not get a private room as Medicaid does not pay for it. Look at the food (which is a huge contributor to quality of life, helps reduce weight loss and promote wound healing, etc) and the smell. If you walk in and immediately smell B.O and poop, it’s not going to be a decent facility. Talk to the director of nursing and read Yelp reviews with a grain of salt.
Your best bet is for your FIL to sell his home if he owns, and for both of them to buy into a continuing care community that provides independent, assisted, and memory care who will transition him to Medicaid once he “spends down.” I’ve seen the best care in continuing communities.
Don’t.
Medicaid may for some partial in home care but it will never be enough and they do not pay for care at night. Which means someone will have to be there to redirect him, change him, tend to his needs for a condition change, etc. There was mention that he may be sharing a room with your children? Don’t. That’s completely inappropriate. When he comes bed bound and soils himself, how are you going to change him in front of your children? Adult BM and bodily fluids smell terribl.
Even the best and most well equipped caregivers and families who have the resources for out of pocket care struggle to care for an aging parent. It sounds to me like your FIL has minimal resources and this would be a significant strain on your family. This sounds like a recipe for burnout and he will be harder to find care for once he’s in your home as the state and case managers see it as less of a priority if he’s housed with family.
Look, not all nursing homes are bad but do your research. Try to find a nursing home that accepts Medicaid but is not mostly occupied by Medicaid residents. Look on nursing home compare and review inspection reports. Accept that your FIL will not get a private room as Medicaid does not pay for it. Look at the food (which is a huge contributor to quality of life, helps reduce weight loss and promote wound healing, etc) and the smell. If you walk in and immediately smell B.O and poop, it’s not going to be a decent facility. Talk to the director of nursing and read Yelp reviews with a grain of salt.
Your best bet is for your FIL to sell his home if he owns, and for both of them to buy into a continuing care community that provides independent, assisted, and memory care who will transition him to Medicaid once he “spends down.” I’ve seen the best care in continuing communities.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 16:05
Subject: Issues to consider when inviting very ill FIL and wife to live in our home
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What is the plan for MIL once FIL passes?
I would help them. I'm currently in a similar situation and am having my parents move in. My mother will live by herself if my father passes, though, and then my siblings will help her if needed later. I'm pretty sure I'd make the same decisions even if I knew taking mom in now meant I'd have her forever, but I'm not totally sure.
Step MIL is only 55 and able-bodied. She can't work however because FIL's needs are so great. So, we would have to assume (state clearly) that she would move out upon his passing. He may live for 10 years - we don't know! He is physically well enough, despite his many, many issues, to live for a while. His brain, however, isn't working well.
She would have to care for him. We are not volunteering to care for him. Our house is a place to live. But, I know the lines would get blurry, and that's part of what concerns me.
This is not realistic...
I bet MIL is already exhausted from caring for him alone. What happens in 5 years when he needs diapers... and help bathing... and also wanders around the house at night potentially getting hurt or turning on the stove and forgetting? Who’s going to drive FIL to appointments?
What’s the plan if MIL gets sick? I’m not even talking a major medical issue - what if she has the flu? Is she still going to be the only one changing diapers, bathing and babysitting FIL? What if MIL breaks a leg or arm? That’s at least 2 months where all his caretaking falls on you. What if she has to go out of town for a wedding/funeral/whatever? What if she has to go to a doctors appointment?
There’s about zero chance that you and DH don’t end up being directly involved in his care. You need to come to terms with this before you invite them to live with you.
It is if the three adults all pitched in. I did it mostly alone. It was miserable but doable. The real issue was not having an aide and at some point not being able to leave the house due to safety issues which was an issue for my child/preschool, etc.
Take a look at the bolder in OPs post - she and DH do not want to pitch in - at all. They are only willing to provide FIL/MIL with a place to stay. They want MIL to be responsible for all of FILs care. — That is what I said is unrealistic.
OP either needs to come to terms with helping with FILs care or not invite them to move in. It’s going to lead to a lot of resentment if they move in and OP and DH end up having to do much more than they were prepared for.