Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:16
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Maybe Chicago really is that wildly different than DC. For a family of 4, I'd say low income is under 50K a year, middle income is 50-150K, and upper middle income 150-300K. Anything above that is rich.
My two teacher family is Upper middle. When families can afford a vacation that involves a plane, that's upper middle. They have 1 car at least 7 years old or 2 cars 10+ years old each . Their kids might go to private school or they attend a very successful public. Whereas middle income families go camping instead. They either have 1 very new car or two cars with less than 4 years on them. Their kids never attend private school.
My family of 4, with a teacher and another comparably paid job, is upper middle income at about 155K a year. (Though to be fair, we pass the 150 mark because of second jobs) When I hear people making 250k+ thinking they are middle income? Those folks need their brains adjusted.
I think the big difference is housing prices. I have a friend who just moved in a Chicago suburb. Niceish house. She posted it on fb. It was selling for $300k or something. I couldn’t believe it. A $300k SFH in a good school district just doesn’t exist here. You’d need at least double that, and teachers are paid the same here as there.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:11
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Can we not with the salary?
We made 236k last year. Live in a 400k house and have 4 kids and are squarely middle class. In fact some people might consider us lower middle class.
There are several variable involved. How much you make. How many kids. Family money. Assets.
I would consider you rich. Whether or not you manage your money well would determine what class you are.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:09
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I base it on quintiles and using HHI
Are you ready for a reality check DCUM
Poor 0-20% under 22.5k
LMC 20-40% 22.5k to 53.7k
MC 40-60% 53.7 to 95.8k
UMC is 60-80% 95.8 to 162.6
Rich is 80% 162.6+
A more DCUM version of this is below. Consider this a college graduate HHI chart
Poor 0-20% under 49.7k
LMC 20-40% 49.7k to 94k
MC 40-60% 94k to 146.8k
UMC is 60-80% 146.8k to 258.2k
Rich is 80% 258.2k+
Flawed, because rich is not the top 20% but maybe the top 1%.
I would argue, it is about comfort level:
Poor: do not know where the next meal is coming from. Income < 30K, assets ~0.
LMC/WC: one paycheck away from disaster. Income: 30-75K assets less than 5K
MC: Some safety net, but rarely eat out. 3-6 months from disaster. Most of the assets in the home. (Income :75K-150K), non-housing assets less than 50K
UMC: Money is tracked, but there is a strong safety net. College is funded; retirement is funded. (Income > 150K; assets less than 15 mil)
UC: No need to work. Money works for you, provides more income than jobs. Net Worth>15 mil (500K income from money)
In my life, I have been poor/homeless. I had no income, and $600 to my name. I had no safety net, and there were no jobs. I was an unfunded grad student during a recession.
I am now, by my definition, UMC; income ~ 180K; assets ~1.6 million.
You went from MC with assets of $50k to UMC with assets of less than $15M?
The difference between MC and UMC is income.
The difference between UMC and UC is assets.
Unemployed but 20 mil in the bank: UC.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 16:28
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:For me, a net worth of at least 10 million is rich.
1-10 mil is UMC
This is ridiculous. If you have a net worth of greater than $600,000, you're in the top 20 percent of Americans. So obviously, if your net worth is more than $1 million, you cannot be described as middle class, no matter how you modify it.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 09:49
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
LOL that's...not what that article says.
You're right.. it's even worse...
In San Francisco, where the median household income is $96,265, the middle income range is $64,177 to an eye-popping $192,530.... Fremont, which was has a middle class income range of between $81,461 to $244,382.
The range is based on area within the city. But I can tell you having lived in that area, you are not going to live like middle class if you earn that little and want to own a home in a decent school district there.
With that logic, people who live in Beverly Hills are also middle class since they compare to others in that zip code or neighborhood.
Come on, so called economic classes is a macro identifier, and can only be broadly applied. The metropolitan area is about the lowest level you can go before the label becomes meaningless.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 07:23
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For me, a net worth of at least 10 million is rich.
1-10 mil is UMC
Agree
ditto
Anonymous
04/01/2019 07:08
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Maybe Chicago really is that wildly different than DC. For a family of 4, I'd say low income is under 50K a year, middle income is 50-150K, and upper middle income 150-300K. Anything above that is rich.
My two teacher family is Upper middle. When families can afford a vacation that involves a plane, that's upper middle. They have 1 car at least 7 years old or 2 cars 10+ years old each . Their kids might go to private school or they attend a very successful public. Whereas middle income families go camping instead. They either have 1 very new car or two cars with less than 4 years on them. Their kids never attend private school.
My family of 4, with a teacher and another comparably paid job, is upper middle income at about 155K a year. (Though to be fair, we pass the 150 mark because of second jobs) When I hear people making 250k+ thinking they are middle income? Those folks need their brains adjusted.
I think this has some truth, a lot of people on DCUM would consider the upper middle you describe to be "barely middle class." You lost me with the MC people only having newer cars though. That's a cultural thing in my hometown but very far from universal, and often was a tradeoff against saving for kids' college (nobody went private), definitely not an across the board middle class thing. Otherwise, by your marks i am totally middle class with an old car in DC, and feel comfortable with that.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 06:56
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I base it on quintiles and using HHI
Are you ready for a reality check DCUM
Poor 0-20% under 22.5k
LMC 20-40% 22.5k to 53.7k
MC 40-60% 53.7 to 95.8k
UMC is 60-80% 95.8 to 162.6
Rich is 80% 162.6+
A more DCUM version of this is below. Consider this a college graduate HHI chart
Poor 0-20% under 49.7k
LMC 20-40% 49.7k to 94k
MC 40-60% 94k to 146.8k
UMC is 60-80% 146.8k to 258.2k
Rich is 80% 258.2k+
Flawed, because rich is not the top 20% but maybe the top 1%.
I would argue, it is about comfort level:
Poor: do not know where the next meal is coming from. Income < 30K, assets ~0.
LMC/WC: one paycheck away from disaster. Income: 30-75K assets less than 5K
MC: Some safety net, but rarely eat out. 3-6 months from disaster. Most of the assets in the home. (Income :75K-150K), non-housing assets less than 50K
UMC: Money is tracked, but there is a strong safety net. College is funded; retirement is funded. (Income > 150K; assets less than 15 mil)
UC: No need to work. Money works for you, provides more income than jobs. Net Worth>15 mil (500K income from money)
In my life, I have been poor/homeless. I had no income, and $600 to my name. I had no safety net, and there were no jobs. I was an unfunded grad student during a recession.
I am now, by my definition, UMC; income ~ 180K; assets ~1.6 million.
DP.. also ^ those %iles are national and does not account for col. $100K in a rural area means you are living UMC. In DC, SF, NYC.. it's lower middle class.
Here we go with the fantasies and wet dreams about what is "rich" in middle America. Is it also cheaper for them to fly, buy food, send their kids to college, get healthcare, and buy a car?
Anonymous
03/31/2019 19:11
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Maybe Chicago really is that wildly different than DC. For a family of 4, I'd say low income is under 50K a year, middle income is 50-150K, and upper middle income 150-300K. Anything above that is rich.
My two teacher family is Upper middle. When families can afford a vacation that involves a plane, that's upper middle. They have 1 car at least 7 years old or 2 cars 10+ years old each . Their kids might go to private school or they attend a very successful public. Whereas middle income families go camping instead. They either have 1 very new car or two cars with less than 4 years on them. Their kids never attend private school.
My family of 4, with a teacher and another comparably paid job, is upper middle income at about 155K a year. (Though to be fair, we pass the 150 mark because of second jobs) When I hear people making 250k+ thinking they are middle income? Those folks need their brains adjusted.
My two teacher family is Upper middle. When families can afford a vacation that involves a plane, that's upper middle. They have 1 car at least 7 years old or 2 cars 10+ years old each . Their kids might go to private school or they attend a very successful public. Whereas middle income families go camping instead. They either have 1 very new car or two cars with less than 4 years on them. Their kids never attend private school.
My family of 4, with a teacher and another comparably paid job, is upper middle income at about 155K a year. (Though to be fair, we pass the 150 mark because of second jobs) When I hear people making 250k+ thinking they are middle income? Those folks need their brains adjusted.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 18:36
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:For me, a net worth of at least 10 million is rich.
1-10 mil is UMC
Agree
Anonymous
03/31/2019 18:19
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I base it on quintiles and using HHI
Are you ready for a reality check DCUM
Poor 0-20% under 22.5k
LMC 20-40% 22.5k to 53.7k
MC 40-60% 53.7 to 95.8k
UMC is 60-80% 95.8 to 162.6
Rich is 80% 162.6+
A more DCUM version of this is below. Consider this a college graduate HHI chart
Poor 0-20% under 49.7k
LMC 20-40% 49.7k to 94k
MC 40-60% 94k to 146.8k
UMC is 60-80% 146.8k to 258.2k
Rich is 80% 258.2k+
Flawed, because rich is not the top 20% but maybe the top 1%.
I would argue, it is about comfort level:
Poor: do not know where the next meal is coming from. Income < 30K, assets ~0.
LMC/WC: one paycheck away from disaster. Income: 30-75K assets less than 5K
MC: Some safety net, but rarely eat out. 3-6 months from disaster. Most of the assets in the home. (Income :75K-150K), non-housing assets less than 50K
UMC: Money is tracked, but there is a strong safety net. College is funded; retirement is funded. (Income > 150K; assets less than 15 mil)
UC: No need to work. Money works for you, provides more income than jobs. Net Worth>15 mil (500K income from money)
In my life, I have been poor/homeless. I had no income, and $600 to my name. I had no safety net, and there were no jobs. I was an unfunded grad student during a recession.
I am now, by my definition, UMC; income ~ 180K; assets ~1.6 million.
DP.. also ^ those %iles are national and does not account for col. $100K in a rural area means you are living UMC. In DC, SF, NYC.. it's lower middle class.
lol top numbers are DC and bottom numbers are ward 3 try again
and yes rich is the top 20% sorry not sorry you might want to join the republican party there chief
In places like SF, median income is close to $200K and considered "middle class".
https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-household-income-192k-middle-class-median-13637536.php
In DC, it's $75K.
In MoCo, it's about $100K
In Arlington, it's $100K
So yes, $100K is not "rich" in these high col areas.
LOL that's...not what that article says.
You're right.. it's even worse...
In San Francisco, where the median household income is $96,265, the middle income range is $64,177 to an eye-popping $192,530.... Fremont, which was has a middle class income range of between $81,461 to $244,382.
The range is based on area within the city. But I can tell you having lived in that area, you are not going to live like middle class if you earn that little and want to own a home in a decent school district there.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 16:56
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Can we not with the salary?
We made 236k last year. Live in a 400k house and have 4 kids and are squarely middle class. In fact some people might consider us lower middle class.
There are several variable involved. How much you make. How many kids. Family money. Assets.
SMDH.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 16:34
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I base it on quintiles and using HHI
Are you ready for a reality check DCUM
Poor 0-20% under 22.5k
LMC 20-40% 22.5k to 53.7k
MC 40-60% 53.7 to 95.8k
UMC is 60-80% 95.8 to 162.6
Rich is 80% 162.6+
A more DCUM version of this is below. Consider this a college graduate HHI chart
Poor 0-20% under 49.7k
LMC 20-40% 49.7k to 94k
MC 40-60% 94k to 146.8k
UMC is 60-80% 146.8k to 258.2k
Rich is 80% 258.2k+
Flawed, because rich is not the top 20% but maybe the top 1%.
I would argue, it is about comfort level:
Poor: do not know where the next meal is coming from. Income < 30K, assets ~0.
LMC/WC: one paycheck away from disaster. Income: 30-75K assets less than 5K
MC: Some safety net, but rarely eat out. 3-6 months from disaster. Most of the assets in the home. (Income :75K-150K), non-housing assets less than 50K
UMC: Money is tracked, but there is a strong safety net. College is funded; retirement is funded. (Income > 150K; assets less than 15 mil)
UC: No need to work. Money works for you, provides more income than jobs. Net Worth>15 mil (500K income from money)
In my life, I have been poor/homeless. I had no income, and $600 to my name. I had no safety net, and there were no jobs. I was an unfunded grad student during a recession.
I am now, by my definition, UMC; income ~ 180K; assets ~1.6 million.
DP.. also ^ those %iles are national and does not account for col. $100K in a rural area means you are living UMC. In DC, SF, NYC.. it's lower middle class.
lol top numbers are DC and bottom numbers are ward 3 try again
and yes rich is the top 20% sorry not sorry you might want to join the republican party there chief
In places like SF, median income is close to $200K and considered "middle class".
https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-household-income-192k-middle-class-median-13637536.php
In DC, it's $75K.
In MoCo, it's about $100K
In Arlington, it's $100K
So yes, $100K is not "rich" in these high col areas.
LOL that's...not what that article says.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 14:38
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I base it on quintiles and using HHI
Are you ready for a reality check DCUM
Poor 0-20% under 22.5k
LMC 20-40% 22.5k to 53.7k
MC 40-60% 53.7 to 95.8k
UMC is 60-80% 95.8 to 162.6
Rich is 80% 162.6+
A more DCUM version of this is below. Consider this a college graduate HHI chart
Poor 0-20% under 49.7k
LMC 20-40% 49.7k to 94k
MC 40-60% 94k to 146.8k
UMC is 60-80% 146.8k to 258.2k
Rich is 80% 258.2k+
Flawed, because rich is not the top 20% but maybe the top 1%.
I would argue, it is about comfort level:
Poor: do not know where the next meal is coming from. Income < 30K, assets ~0.
LMC/WC: one paycheck away from disaster. Income: 30-75K assets less than 5K
MC: Some safety net, but rarely eat out. 3-6 months from disaster. Most of the assets in the home. (Income :75K-150K), non-housing assets less than 50K
UMC: Money is tracked, but there is a strong safety net. College is funded; retirement is funded. (Income > 150K; assets less than 15 mil)
UC: No need to work. Money works for you, provides more income than jobs. Net Worth>15 mil (500K income from money)
In my life, I have been poor/homeless. I had no income, and $600 to my name. I had no safety net, and there were no jobs. I was an unfunded grad student during a recession.
I am now, by my definition, UMC; income ~ 180K; assets ~1.6 million.
DP.. also ^ those %iles are national and does not account for col. $100K in a rural area means you are living UMC. In DC, SF, NYC.. it's lower middle class.
lol top numbers are DC and bottom numbers are ward 3 try again
and yes rich is the top 20% sorry not sorry you might want to join the republican party there chief
In places like SF, median income is close to $200K and considered "middle class".
https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-household-income-192k-middle-class-median-13637536.php
In DC, it's $75K.
In MoCo, it's about $100K
In Arlington, it's $100K
So yes, $100K is not "rich" in these high col areas.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 14:22
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:For me, a net worth of at least 10 million is rich.
1-10 mil is UMC
net worth of 1 mil is UMC? i don't think so. not in this area