Anonymous
Post 02/27/2019 20:21     Subject: What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You may not be aware of this but today AP & honors classes are the regular classes. Over the years these have been watered down so that more people are able to participate. This has affected the rigor of these classes.


Do you have any evidence that the content of the AP US History class (for example) is less rigorous than it used to be at some point in the past (when?)?


My dd worked way harder in her APUSH class than I did many years ago. And I think she's probably smarter than I was at the time, to boot.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2019 16:31     Subject: What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
AP and magnet courses remains the last bastion of race-blind merit. They may not be perfect but that's all we have.

In the end, I don't want a heart surgeon operating on me who got into academic programs because they were under represented minorities.

Anonymous
Post 02/27/2019 11:13     Subject: What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:You may not be aware of this but today AP & honors classes are the regular classes. Over the years these have been watered down so that more people are able to participate. This has affected the rigor of these classes.


Do you have any evidence that the content of the AP US History class (for example) is less rigorous than it used to be at some point in the past (when?)?
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2019 11:08     Subject: What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
You may not be aware of this but today AP & honors classes are the regular classes. Over the years these have been watered down so that more people are able to participate. This has affected the rigor of these classes.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2019 09:25     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
I want to reiterate this for the parents with kids in middle and elementary.

The "academic" classes are remedial. The honors classes at my dc's school are all over the place. In some cases there is barely a difference and the rigor is dependent upon the teacher.

I also hate APs. We have to pay for the class and the tests and the teachers often can't teach the content. Both of my kids barely got Bs in their favorite subject AP classes but got 5s on the AP test. At our school there seems to be a pecking order where the teachers most valued by the administration get to teach the AP classes. They are often not talented in the subject matter they teach. The teachers also get some kind of ego kick for being known as the hard ass ap teacher. The ones with that reputation are very proud of it.


Well its good for an AP teacher to be a hard ass. Its pretty common in private schools for kids that get a B or even C in the class to get a 5 on the test. The test is one test and they honestly are not that hard. For the course to be equal to a freshman level class the class work should be much harder than the test.

There is a really weird perversion toward always "pretending" that everything is advanced and every kid is a brilliant when they are not. Academic success requires hard work, and pushing yourself. Its not an every person wins a trophy or lipstick on a pig thing.


We have a different experience with APs. We don't pay anything for AP classes, and the test at the end of the year requires payment, but is optional. (And is subsidized/free for lower income kids.) And so far out of 4 APs, we've been very happy with the teaching of 3 of them. Looking broadly at our school, it seems like in most departments the better teachers are teaching APs, though that's just an impression. (In one dept, it's definitely not the case that best teachers are assigned, though, so maybe it's just random or on a volunteer basis.)

Our experience is also that the only way for my dd, at least, to get a 5 is to do a lot of extra studying beyond what is taught in class. And there are some kids who definitely skip the class and take the test, and still get a 4-5.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2019 17:42     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
I want to reiterate this for the parents with kids in middle and elementary.

The "academic" classes are remedial. The honors classes at my dc's school are all over the place. In some cases there is barely a difference and the rigor is dependent upon the teacher.

I also hate APs. We have to pay for the class and the tests and the teachers often can't teach the content. Both of my kids barely got Bs in their favorite subject AP classes but got 5s on the AP test. At our school there seems to be a pecking order where the teachers most valued by the administration get to teach the AP classes. They are often not talented in the subject matter they teach. The teachers also get some kind of ego kick for being known as the hard ass ap teacher. The ones with that reputation are very proud of it.


Well its good for an AP teacher to be a hard ass. Its pretty common in private schools for kids that get a B or even C in the class to get a 5 on the test. The test is one test and they honestly are not that hard. For the course to be equal to a freshman level class the class work should be much harder than the test.

There is a really weird perversion toward always "pretending" that everything is advanced and every kid is a brilliant when they are not. Academic success requires hard work, and pushing yourself. Its not an every person wins a trophy or lipstick on a pig thing.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 22:17     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the non honors is basically remedial level but no one wants to call it remedial because that is offensive to some in this politically correct country. Facts are no longer acceptable. So instead of saying remedial history and regular history, we say history and honors history.


I want to reiterate this for the parents with kids in middle and elementary.

The "academic" classes are remedial. The honors classes at my dc's school are all over the place. In some cases there is barely a difference and the rigor is dependent upon the teacher.

I also hate APs. We have to pay for the class and the tests and the teachers often can't teach the content. Both of my kids barely got Bs in their favorite subject AP classes but got 5s on the AP test. At our school there seems to be a pecking order where the teachers most valued by the administration get to teach the AP classes. They are often not talented in the subject matter they teach. The teachers also get some kind of ego kick for being known as the hard ass ap teacher. The ones with that reputation are very proud of it.


Your anecdotes are simply anecdotes. And where do you pay for an AP class?
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 22:15     Subject: What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:Dual enrollment is much better. It cost less and if you pass the course, you earn college credit.

College Board is a money-maker that now rules public ed.

no thanks


No, it isn't better. Instead of a class filled with the top achievers, you are in CC with many, many (not all) low achievers. The classes are not equivalent, but yes, it is usually easy to pass.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:34     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the non honors is basically remedial level but no one wants to call it remedial because that is offensive to some in this politically correct country. Facts are no longer acceptable. So instead of saying remedial history and regular history, we say history and honors history.


I want to reiterate this for the parents with kids in middle and elementary.

The "academic" classes are remedial. The honors classes at my dc's school are all over the place. In some cases there is barely a difference and the rigor is dependent upon the teacher.

I also hate APs. We have to pay for the class and the tests and the teachers often can't teach the content. Both of my kids barely got Bs in their favorite subject AP classes but got 5s on the AP test. At our school there seems to be a pecking order where the teachers most valued by the administration get to teach the AP classes. They are often not talented in the subject matter they teach. The teachers also get some kind of ego kick for being known as the hard ass ap teacher. The ones with that reputation are very proud of it.


So where did they learn the content, then?


Their friends. They rely upon one another to go over the subject matter. Some times my kid is the guru and other times it's one of the other kids. The kids at my kid's high school who are the highest achieving go to their peers with questions, rarely the teachers.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:25     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
The kids from my neighborhood who go to private schools just take the test and get 4s and 5s. They said they don't get a grade boost from the class so they don't take that many of them. They just take the tests at the end of the year.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:18     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the non honors is basically remedial level but no one wants to call it remedial because that is offensive to some in this politically correct country. Facts are no longer acceptable. So instead of saying remedial history and regular history, we say history and honors history.


I want to reiterate this for the parents with kids in middle and elementary.

The "academic" classes are remedial. The honors classes at my dc's school are all over the place. In some cases there is barely a difference and the rigor is dependent upon the teacher.

I also hate APs. We have to pay for the class and the tests and the teachers often can't teach the content. Both of my kids barely got Bs in their favorite subject AP classes but got 5s on the AP test. At our school there seems to be a pecking order where the teachers most valued by the administration get to teach the AP classes. They are often not talented in the subject matter they teach. The teachers also get some kind of ego kick for being known as the hard ass ap teacher. The ones with that reputation are very proud of it.


So where did they learn the content, then?
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:12     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How much does it cost to do take AP tests?


$94+


We pay $85 per test. If you have multiple kids in high school, add it up. My kids usually take 3 or 4 per year.


A bargain compared to a college class..
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:06     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How much does it cost to do take AP tests?


$94+


We pay $85 per test. If you have multiple kids in high school, add it up. My kids usually take 3 or 4 per year.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:05     Subject: What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The privates will still have kids take the AP exams, they just aren't paying for/using the College Board's AP curriculum. They think they can do it better AND save money


There is no charge and no "curriculum". There is a list of content and themes that will be tested. So money is not the reason these are being dropped by the top private schools. It has to do with their market audience of colleges and creating mystique for parents who will think that the homegrown classes are vastly superior from those offered in public schools. This is how they differentiate and justify high tuition. I know, my D.C. goes to a Big 3, while I teach APs.


Wait, MCPS doesn’t train their AP teachers to teach these classes? They just assume these teachers with a bachelors from Towson can teach like a professor?


Go Tigers!
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2019 15:04     Subject: Re:What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?
Anonymous wrote:Because the non honors is basically remedial level but no one wants to call it remedial because that is offensive to some in this politically correct country. Facts are no longer acceptable. So instead of saying remedial history and regular history, we say history and honors history.


I want to reiterate this for the parents with kids in middle and elementary.

The "academic" classes are remedial. The honors classes at my dc's school are all over the place. In some cases there is barely a difference and the rigor is dependent upon the teacher.

I also hate APs. We have to pay for the class and the tests and the teachers often can't teach the content. Both of my kids barely got Bs in their favorite subject AP classes but got 5s on the AP test. At our school there seems to be a pecking order where the teachers most valued by the administration get to teach the AP classes. They are often not talented in the subject matter they teach. The teachers also get some kind of ego kick for being known as the hard ass ap teacher. The ones with that reputation are very proud of it.