Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 12:47     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:DH is very career oriented - big job and big salary. When we got married he was at a very intense breakpoint in his career and said his obsession with his work was just because of that and that he shared the vision for family life and partnership I wanted. It turns out it wasn't any difference once he made it through that stage, that's who he is. I don't think he meant to lie, I think he wishes he was the person he described, he's just not.

I spend a lot of time and energy cajoling him into engaging in family life. Dragging him out of bed on weekend mornings to join in family outtings, asking him to come downstairs for dinner if he's home for it, reminding him to fulfill some domestic responsibilities etc. While he sometimes he snaps when I'm doing it, he overall at least says he is glad I "push him to be a better person" and "kick his ass" to get moving which he is always happy he did after the fact. Sometimes it works out and we have a lot of fun together, other times he's an ass and it just makes things feel lonelier. I think overall he is glad I push him and is happier with his life for it when his inclination is to spend his downtown sleeping or playing on his phone.

I'm so tired of it and am just considering stopping asking anything of him. I'd hire more help to take care of chores at home, make a career change so I could have the time to meet all the kids' needs, and just leave it to DH to engage with our family or not as he chooses. I don't think the kids would suffer, he'd be like a 1980s dad, he can be super fun and engaged when he's not distracted by work and would spend a couple hours focused on them during the weekend, and I'd fully take on ensuring their need for stability, emotional support, and logistical needs are met.

I'm so tired of having to try to manage him into being part of our family so its tempting to just stop trying. He can get out of bed when he wants on weekends and we'll go about our day without him unless he gets up himself and decides to join, join or not join for dinner, not be responsible for any domestic tasks etc. I'll no longer have to think how to kindly / funnily cajole him into participating. But I also feel like it'd make him not feel like a life partner at all - more a financial supporter who is nice to fun around periodically when he decides - and that's really sad for a marriage.

Couple other data points - divorce isn't on the table, while there may be better partners out there (or no partner at all) my life overall isn't nearly unhappy enough to cause all the upheaval and damage of a divorce. Also DH does struggle with anxiety and depression, he is on medication for it and is likely as good as he's able / willing to get (I imagine more CBT would help but he's not interested). I think his running rate is having some depression type behaviors (wants to sleep a lot, fun activities feel like work) but his anxiety / depression don't swing dramatically or cause a lot of drama in and of themselves.

Any thoughts?


Yes. Shut your pie-hole.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 11:59     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I did this for a time with my DH who also has a lot of similar issues with your DH's behaviors (wants to sleep a lot, fun activities feel like work + anxiety). I was fairly vocal about telling him how much I was doing and how little he was doing and that wasn't working out for me. So I stopped expecting anything from him and did everything myself. Slowly, he stepped up. But it was more about what the kids needed from him as they were older. He could more easily meet their needs. He wasn't great with small children.


Around what ages did that start happening? Mine are currently 2 and 1 and unfortunately its a self fulling cycle right now that the less around their dad is the more they prefer me so the easier it is for dad to check-out. They're both boys and I'm hoping when they're older they'll actively want dad more and DH will feel like its more critical for him to engage.


I have 2 boys and DH started getting into them when they were getting better & more serious about sports. Ages 9 & older. He stepped up SOME but I still do that majority of the organizing and logistics related to their sports. Since he played too, he realized that this was 'his time' and he needed to be the one to teach them to throw a basketball or whatever. Yes, I realize this sounds completely stereotypical male, and while I'm not happy about it, this was the reality of the situation.

I have sisters & a single Mom, so raising/living with males was new to me. I read some books about raising boys that indicated that boys need Mom from ages 0-10 and need Dad from 10 to 18, and beyond. For me, this has fit in with what my DH has been capable of offering. He was appreciative of all I did for the boys in the early years, but I certainly did resent his lack of effort. However, I stuck with the marriage so the boys would have the Dad they needed at ages 10+. He is able to connect with them in ways I can't now that they're teens. And they really do need a same-gender role model, even one that's lazy & sometimes checked out. It was a sacrifice that was worth making - for me. You may disagree.

The thing about males is that their standards are much lower. Your DH probably has a vastly different idea of what 'involved' means. I bet he thinks that bringing home a paycheck for his family means that he's met 90% of his responsibilities. You might ask him directly how he sees his role in the family. And I'm certain that it will change over the coming years. I remember a story about how expecting parents dreams about their unborn children: Moms dream about their children at very young, dependent ages, and Dads dream of their kids when they can throw a football in the yard with them. Both roles are vital.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 10:48     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
I have a workahlic 84 year-old FIL who still goes into his office daily. He became a better dad once he divorced my MIL about 50 years ago.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 10:23     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
OP I reread your post. It seems like you feel if you don’t spend the money he makes that will change him into less of a workaholic. In my (long) experience that doesn’t happen. We have friends in ther 60s STILL working long hours. They like it they do it they are not going to stop.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 10:16     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
OP your DH isn’t going to change. Many depressed people work hard at things they like or get rewarded for and refuse to do ther things they find both depressing and boring. He said he wanted to be an involved Dad but actions speak louder than words.
Stop trying to change him and outsource some of the boring things.
Also high earners do not always control all aspects of their time at work. Few people make high salaries and call all the shots. You are asking too much. If you feel too lonely and too much like you are managing another child : get out now while you are young. Or else accept him as he is.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 10:15     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
I think is fine and the kids aren't going to suffer. Some kids get a super involved dad, some kids get no dad. Your kids have an uber provider dad. They might not be as emotionally close to him as adults, but odds are they won't grouse about the financial leg up they will enjoy. Let's not pretend that's not very worthwhile or that it doesn't reflect the father's love and care for them.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 10:10     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:We get what we expect, OP, and I think it is worth considering how much *you* are contributing to this dynamic and just replicating your childhood structure.

I am non-confrontational (even a doormat at times), but I grew up with a very different family life and it just wouldn't really occur to me to structure my life as you have. E.g. DH and I switched off with getting up with the kids as babies b/c I just asked well should we alternate, or take different blocs of time, or what? If I wanted better sleep I just went to the guest bedroom and let him deal. We switch off weekend mornings too... Mostly I just grocery shop in peace my "morning off." I don't think this is something that he would have ever eagerly volunteered for but I can't imagine him really grousing or yelling about the division of labor, and if he did, I would just be like what the heck are you doing?

In other words, OP, if you don't like your dynamic, just stop participating in it. It doesn't have to be a fight. Do a yoga class on Saturday morning. Ask whether he wants to do the dishes or get the kids ready for bed. Say you need him to do pick up on W & Th, and then *don't be available.* If he in fact has some true job constraints then that is where you start outsourcing. So yeah, I'd "drop the rope," but in the opposite way that you are suggesting.


Forget about the dishes OP. You have enough money to hire someone to come in every morning or every evening and clean up. Or maybe the kids can clean up(I babysat for a very wealthy family and the 6 year old boy loaded and unloaded the dishwasher).

There are only so many hours in a day. If he works long hours, what should be important is time with the kids; playing cards with them, taking them to an activity on the weekend. unless he is doing the dishes with them, dishes should not be on his list. It shouldn't be on yours either if your husband is so busy that you have make up for his absence.

I agree with the above PP that you have to speak up. But focus on what is most important.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:59     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
We get what we expect, OP, and I think it is worth considering how much *you* are contributing to this dynamic and just replicating your childhood structure.

I am non-confrontational (even a doormat at times), but I grew up with a very different family life and it just wouldn't really occur to me to structure my life as you have. E.g. DH and I switched off with getting up with the kids as babies b/c I just asked well should we alternate, or take different blocs of time, or what? If I wanted better sleep I just went to the guest bedroom and let him deal. We switch off weekend mornings too... Mostly I just grocery shop in peace my "morning off." I don't think this is something that he would have ever eagerly volunteered for but I can't imagine him really grousing or yelling about the division of labor, and if he did, I would just be like what the heck are you doing?

In other words, OP, if you don't like your dynamic, just stop participating in it. It doesn't have to be a fight. Do a yoga class on Saturday morning. Ask whether he wants to do the dishes or get the kids ready for bed. Say you need him to do pick up on W & Th, and then *don't be available.* If he in fact has some true job constraints then that is where you start outsourcing. So yeah, I'd "drop the rope," but in the opposite way that you are suggesting.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:33     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:Go for it. Your plan sounds totally fine.


+1

He is an adult and can be responsible for his own choices.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:33     Subject: anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
DH here and I find OP’s situation sad, especially for her children but also for herself and her DH. I made a choice to be as equally involved as my wife in the raising of our children, which admittedly came at the expense of career progression and money, but I have never regretted it and I know they are better for it. I also know one of the biggest gifts I have given them, particularly my son, is the example I set that hopefully he will be mimic for his children. I see so many fathers/husbands who work long hours and seldom see or are involved with their families and think that the one or two big vacations they go on a year are enough and make them a good father. What I know for sure is that our lives and our relationships with your children are built in the small moments. The memories my older kids talk about today are not the manufactured ones created by the big trips we took each year but rather the impromptu things that happened during my daily involvement with them - the bike rides and walks we took after work, playing in the creek, playing with the dogs, playing catch, playing board games after dinner, and on and on.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:28     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The idea that your kids will not suffer because of your DHs issues is insane. Divorce or not he is not a present father and that will have ramifications.


While they'd ideally have a more day to day engaged dad, I don't think they will "suffer". He can be a super fun dad and in an emergency he'd go to the end of the earth for him. In the day to day he's happy to leave the day to day monotony to someone else. I grew up with a dad kind of like him, he would take me on long bike rides on the weekends, and in general be fun and loving for chunks of weekend time and not part of week-day life, I knew he was "there" for me etc....but I got all of my day to day needs and security from my mom. I honestly think at the end of the day my dad is the only one that suffered from it, I know he loves and supports me but I will never be as close to him as I am with my mom and I think he's a bit lonely now that he is retired and has time for family but doesn't have the very close connection. So yes my life could have been a little better if I had a deeper emotional connection with my dad, but childhood was still really good b/c all of my emotional / logistical / security etc needs were still met by my mom and a lot of happy kids have family dynamics like that.


Uh, you married your dad. That is the ramification of having a DH like yours. Do you want your kids to think that is the best example of a father? He wants to sleep in instead of spend time with his kids? You basically have repeated the same mistake because you were conditioned to think this is how it’s supposed to be.


Agreed. The end result is that your boys will be just like your DH and their grandfather. Like it or not, those are your core family values. It’s not terrible but not good.


Yes, that’s one of the worst things. Your sons are going to grow up thinking this is the role of a dad. But they cycle can be broken. My dad was like that, working all the time. I actively chose differently. I have a husband who doesn’t make a lot of money, and I myself am in a typically workaholic type career but have a totally mommy-track job. We struggle financially, though we’d be rich with his money if we lived elsewhere, but I love our family life. We all have dinner together 90+ percent of the time. We spend almost all of our weekends together as a family. DH (assistant) coaches the kids teams. Every game has at least one pare tin attendance. We are all there if the other kid’s schedule doesn’t conflict. It’s how we saw raising kids and it is how we are doing it. Would life be better with another 100k or 500k every year? Not at the expense of what we have in terms of time and family bonds.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:23     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The idea that your kids will not suffer because of your DHs issues is insane. Divorce or not he is not a present father and that will have ramifications.


While they'd ideally have a more day to day engaged dad, I don't think they will "suffer". He can be a super fun dad and in an emergency he'd go to the end of the earth for him. In the day to day he's happy to leave the day to day monotony to someone else. I grew up with a dad kind of like him, he would take me on long bike rides on the weekends, and in general be fun and loving for chunks of weekend time and not part of week-day life, I knew he was "there" for me etc....but I got all of my day to day needs and security from my mom. I honestly think at the end of the day my dad is the only one that suffered from it, I know he loves and supports me but I will never be as close to him as I am with my mom and I think he's a bit lonely now that he is retired and has time for family but doesn't have the very close connection. So yes my life could have been a little better if I had a deeper emotional connection with my dad, but childhood was still really good b/c all of my emotional / logistical / security etc needs were still met by my mom and a lot of happy kids have family dynamics like that.


But interestingly, you married a man just like your dad with whom you supposedly do not have a close relationship.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:16     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
I did this. I get the fear that if you stop, then your husband will become completely uninvolved, but I actually found the opposite. Once home became all fun and relaxation and no work/stress/fighting, my husband was getting home from work earlier and seemed more involved.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:11     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The idea that your kids will not suffer because of your DHs issues is insane. Divorce or not he is not a present father and that will have ramifications.


While they'd ideally have a more day to day engaged dad, I don't think they will "suffer". He can be a super fun dad and in an emergency he'd go to the end of the earth for him. In the day to day he's happy to leave the day to day monotony to someone else. I grew up with a dad kind of like him, he would take me on long bike rides on the weekends, and in general be fun and loving for chunks of weekend time and not part of week-day life, I knew he was "there" for me etc....but I got all of my day to day needs and security from my mom. I honestly think at the end of the day my dad is the only one that suffered from it, I know he loves and supports me but I will never be as close to him as I am with my mom and I think he's a bit lonely now that he is retired and has time for family but doesn't have the very close connection. So yes my life could have been a little better if I had a deeper emotional connection with my dad, but childhood was still really good b/c all of my emotional / logistical / security etc needs were still met by my mom and a lot of happy kids have family dynamics like that.


Uh, you married your dad. That is the ramification of having a DH like yours. Do you want your kids to think that is the best example of a father? He wants to sleep in instead of spend time with his kids? You basically have repeated the same mistake because you were conditioned to think this is how it’s supposed to be.


Agreed. The end result is that your boys will be just like your DH and their grandfather. Like it or not, those are your core family values. It’s not terrible but not good.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2019 09:03     Subject: Re:anyone drop the rope with their spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Not wrong. It’s dishonest to marry a big earner, reap the benefits and then bail out of the agreement in the middle, causing tremendous family turmoil.
At least wait until the kids are grown - it’s the respectable thing to do.


Again, read the OP. It sounds like the balance of family life was discussed and OP was given the impression that the work intensity would die down, and it didn't. Perhaps she should have believed what she was seeing, rather than what he was saying. But for the love of God, drop the obsession with insisting that women all marry for "big money". Most of us don't want to partner with wealthy, uninvolved men. Including OP.


But she definitely DID.

I did not. I have a husband who is around. We do not have interesting/pricey family vacations and many other things and in fact struggle to pay regular debts. It’s fine though. And it’s not like some utopia where I also then don’t have to also work to smooth things over between DH and the kids sometimes. A lot at some ages. All marriages and family relationships take work and compromise, not just yours. The grass is not greener.


Having to do all the housework and even things like painting the house is not as rosy as it seems either, OP. Take your privilege where you can get it and enjoy it.