Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know too many STEM folks who can't read, write, argue, or articulate things well. They have a narrow field of interest and knowledge and are dull because they don't read novels, know much about history or art, or speak another language and are as a result not very familiar with other cultures. Sure, that's not everyone, but having to take language, history, english, math, and science (plus philosophy, art, psychology, etc. as options) at an advanced level past high school can only be a good thing.

How is this related to the thread? I am the OP. I do not discount the value of any education. I am discussing the worry I have which has nothing to do with what you wrote. Please do not troll the thread. I gaining clarity from many responses and do not want this thread to be debate of STEM vs. non-STEM.

np: OP, based on your desire to micromanage both your son and this thread, I’d wager that you are a very controlling person. Chill out and back off.

I worked in a law school career services office and if it was my decision I wouldn't even admit students who hasn't worked for at least two years. The ones who'd worked, even in crappy minimum wage types jobs, were so much more mature and prepared and realistic. The struggle of making it on their own really forced them to grow up. They were focused and also better equipped to deal with adversity.

There were some who came straight through from undergrad who performed well academically, but they would confess to me that they felt a lot of uncertainty and discomfort with their choices. Grad school is a big commitment of time and money, and one that is best undertaken thoughtfully and with a clear goal in mind.

Finally, I can say that as a liberal arts college grad myself, I can say that most of my classmates bounced around a bit early on, but they all found their paths. Many of them have been extraordinarily successful. None of them have starved in the streets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better that he figure out what he wants to do, than to spend time and money on a graduate program that doesn’t suit him.

Yup. Spend some time working and then go back to school if it makes sense.

+1

He may have no idea how hard he’s going to have to work to replicate your lifestyle Or he may realize he doesn’t want to work that hard for a particular lifestyle.

What I wouldn’t do is support him in maintaining a nicer lifestyle than he can afford, unless you can guarantee that for the rest of his life (and possibly for any dependents of his). Doesn’t sound like you have that level of wealth, though.

+1 This is important; it's his life to sort out. If you paid for his education, you gave him a great gift. If you had a problem with his major, you should have said so upfront.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be proud of him for wanting to chart his own course.

I am very proud of him - he is quite an independent thinker. But the job uncertainty associated with liberal arts undergraduate education is making me very nervous.

I’m so tired of hearing about the problem with liberal arts degrees from STEM graduates. DH has degrees from the top two STEM institutions in the US and I make 3 times as much as him with my liberal arts degrees from 2nd rate colleges. I also outearn the majority of his fraternity brothers with the exception of those who joined Apple early or had a successful start-up.

The field you go into and the amount of drive you have determines the amount of income you make. Stop worrying about what and how many degrees he has.

I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. I wanted to express my ignorance about what he could do with a liberal arts undergraduate degree. The earning potential is my concern and not his. He does not have a burning desire to earn 6 figure salary or work his way up to be there.

That is the main reason I would have liked him to have chosen a major like Comp Sc which gives a certainty to earn decent salary even after undergraduate degree without ever having to work harder or studying father. But he did not want that field. May be I am not expressing my concern well. With his low drive to earn the best using all opportunities, my worry is that he would lock himself up in a low paying job forever and regret much later in life.

Or he may find something he really enjoys and be very content.

Umm, OP, in many fields, going to grad school straight out of undergrad is generally not advised. I work at a law school, and the students who come in with at least some sort of professional experience after graduating from undergrad typically fare far better than those who come straight from UG (both admissions-wise and just general preparation for the expectations of law school once they get here). And that's law school. In some fields, like MBA, having a few years of work is pretty much a prerequisite.

He's probably burnt out and needs a break from studying. He could work for 5 years and still not be behind his peers. In fact he'll have the advantage of real world experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Yes we are immigrants. What worries me is not that he wants to work after undergraduate to get a break and to decide his path. He thinks his education is probably done unless he decides later to do any further studies.. He believes he can live fine in $30K salary. He has no experience living in financial hardship all his life. He does not understand how budget works and I am concerned that by the time he understands, it might be too late.

The thing is that if he goes straight to grad school he's only prolonging not learning what it's like to live in the "real world" and need money for bills and budgets and so forth. You may be surprised, his work experiences may lead him to develop the drive and motivation you feel he lacks. He may see what opportunities do/don't exist out there for people with his background and come to his own realization that he needs an advanced career to move up in the world. But he needs to come to these conclusions for himself or else grad school will be a total waste of time. He won't choose a field he's passionate in and will approach his time there with the same lackadaisical attitude you feel he has now.

Best he works for a couple of years and makes sure what he wants to do. They only thing that could hold him back is having kids immediately with someone. If that's not the case, I wouldn't worry about it.

Best to work now while the job market is hot, and go back for an advanced degree when there is a recession.

He is twenty! He has many years ahead to work, discover what the 9-5 is like, travel, try different things and go to grad school, if he finds that meets his needs. Many people have no idea what they would like to do at such a young age and learn by experience. If you greatest fears come true and he finds himself broke, living in a crappy place then that may be the motivation to pursue and advanced degree. However, he might also find joy in a job that doesn’t come with a fancy title or high salary. Give him the space to figure it out on his own.

BTW, I have a stem graduate degree, my husband has a graduate liberal arts degree. I only make 25% of our income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a great idea for him to work for a couple years and then evaluate whether he needs additional education to achieve his goals. Too many young people rush into advanced degrees.

+1

Agree from someone who went straight to grad school. Only exception would be if he already has an offer with full scholarship.

Don’t be crazy and push him to decide anything now. Well, never push him to do this but especially now. Leave him be and be supportive.
Bring him a nice gift for his ‘apartment warming’

Anonymous wrote:I know too many STEM folks who can't read, write, argue, or articulate things well. They have a narrow field of interest and knowledge and are dull because they don't read novels, know much about history or art, or speak another language and are as a result not very familiar with other cultures. Sure, that's not everyone, but having to take language, history, english, math, and science (plus philosophy, art, psychology, etc. as options) at an advanced level past high school can only be a good thing.

How is this related to the thread? I am the OP. I do not discount the value of any education. I am discussing the worry I have which has nothing to do with what you wrote. Please do not troll the thread. I gaining clarity from many responses and do not want this thread to be debate of STEM vs. non-STEM.

I know too many STEM folks who can't read, write, argue, or articulate things well. They have a narrow field of interest and knowledge and are dull because they don't read novels, know much about history or art, or speak another language and are as a result not very familiar with other cultures. Sure, that's not everyone, but having to take language, history, english, math, and science (plus philosophy, art, psychology, etc. as options) at an advanced level past high school can only be a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:It's a great idea for him to work for a couple years and then evaluate whether he needs additional education to achieve his goals. Too many young people rush into advanced degrees.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be proud of him for wanting to chart his own course.

I am very proud of him - he is quite an independent thinker. But the job uncertainty associated with liberal arts undergraduate education is making me very nervous.

I’m so tired of hearing about the problem with liberal arts degrees from STEM graduates. DH has degrees from the top two STEM institutions in the US and I make 3 times as much as him with my liberal arts degrees from 2nd rate colleges. I also outearn the majority of his fraternity brothers with the exception of those who joined Apple early or had a successful start-up.

The field you go into and the amount of drive you have determines the amount of income you make. Stop worrying about what and how many degrees he has.

I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. I wanted to express my ignorance about what he could do with a liberal arts undergraduate degree. The earning potential is my concern and not his. He does not have a burning desire to earn 6 figure salary or work his way up to be there.

That is the main reason I would have liked him to have chosen a major like Comp Sc which gives a certainty to earn decent salary even after undergraduate degree without ever having to work harder or studying father. But he did not want that field. May be I am not expressing my concern well. With his low drive to earn the best using all opportunities, my worry is that he would lock himself up in a low paying job forever and regret much later in life.

If you force him into a graduate program and a high paying career that he didn't necessarily choose, there is a good chance he will resent you for it. If you let him be on his own for a couple years - and see what it's really like to live on a low salary - then he might come around to your view on his own and you'll all be better off. I don't think it will affect his life very much at all if he starts grad school in a 2-5 years vs right away, and in fact it might make him MORE successful to wait.