Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But once you are partner its almost impossible to be fired right? That has a lot of value too.

Hahahahaha!

Sigh.

Please explain. That is also what I heard. ALMOST impossible be fired once you are a big law partner, right? Not saying impossible, but ALMOST impossible.

You are thinking about the federal government attorneys. Oh, wait.....

Worked in a big law firm for over 10 years. Never remember a partner being fired. Give an example a big law parter being fired?

There are many ways to push a partner out without technically firing him/her. And it isn’t rare.

Partners get pushed out of top firms on a regular basis, all the time. It's extremely common.

+1

Inadvertently rode the elevator with a senior partner that got pushed out at our firm once. Literally, took his box of stuff and was departing the firm that second. They don't have to give them notice when they do it. It was a long ride. It definitely happens often, and it is definitely done as quietly as possible, for the most part. Also, they are not allowed to take their clients with them, or there are huge law suits that follow. Guess who usually wins? Not the guy who left. So much sh*t goes down at law firms that most employees don't know about.

This senior partner must be fired for cause (e.g. sexual harassment, stealing, etc.). Cannot image a firm let a senior partner go for merely performance reasons (eg not generating enough revenue)

Meant to say “cannot imagine a senior partner being fired this way (took his box of stuff and departing immediately) for purely economic reasons”

Senior partners can and do get pushed out for economic reasons, for all other kinds of reasons, and/or for absolutely no reason at all. Biglaw==viper pits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But once you are partner its almost impossible to be fired right? That has a lot of value too.

Hahahahaha!

Sigh.

Please explain. That is also what I heard. ALMOST impossible be fired once you are a big law partner, right? Not saying impossible, but ALMOST impossible.

You are thinking about the federal government attorneys. Oh, wait.....

Worked in a big law firm for over 10 years. Never remember a partner being fired. Give an example a big law parter being fired?

There are many ways to push a partner out without technically firing him/her. And it isn’t rare.

Partners get pushed out of top firms on a regular basis, all the time. It's extremely common.

+1

Inadvertently rode the elevator with a senior partner that got pushed out at our firm once. Literally, took his box of stuff and was departing the firm that second. They don't have to give them notice when they do it. It was a long ride. It definitely happens often, and it is definitely done as quietly as possible, for the most part. Also, they are not allowed to take their clients with them, or there are huge law suits that follow. Guess who usually wins? Not the guy who left. So much sh*t goes down at law firms that most employees don't know about.

Partners voluntarily leave big law firms all the time and take their big clients with them; I've done it.

A junior/nonequity partner is a partner in name only. Salary can range from $250k-$400k. They generally don't make as much as people think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a junior associate at a ‘top’ firm that has been thinning the partner ranks aggressively this year. The firm is also moving towards a model with more counsel, fewer partners so they can keep their paycheck/share as big as possible. Talent/intellect is not rewarded- ability to play the game is. In my opinion, which isn’t worth much, the market/rate pressure on big law firms is going to fundamentally reshape the business. The whole deal firms make with associates is that you are overpaid to put up with the terrible working conditions. They won’t be able to pay associates that way if this continues, and no one will put up with partner bullshit for peanuts. And the people at the top of the pyramid right now are so out of touch with the economic reality millenials face they won’t realize this until it’s too late.

As in-house counsel for a Fortune 500, I can attest to this. We're thinning the herd of law firms we use, capping fees and reducing our use of outside counsel in favor of in-house resources. BIGLAW is good for making some cash to pay off loans and learning your craft.

Also, many mid-sized companies are using virtual law firms and regional law firms that are filled with BIGLAW refugees. Same quality (some would say better), with a 1/2 to 2/3 hourly billing rate.

I'm also in-house counsel for a large company. We try to avoid BIGLAW unless we're dealing with a big merger or high profile lawsuit. Even then, if we have regional counsel we trust, we'll opt for them.

Also inhouse and I third this. We use virtual law firms and save a ton without sacrificing quality. We also have done more in-house hiring to avoid farming routine work out to biglaw. The next recession will see massive layoffs and closures in biglaw.

BIGLAW is already planning for this by hiring permanent "staff counsel" who they can lay off when times get tough, without affecting their reputations amongs top law school grads. They learned this lesson the hard way during the 2008-2009 recession, and again during the dot-com bust in the early-2000s. These actions won't affect the equity partners at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a junior associate at a ‘top’ firm that has been thinning the partner ranks aggressively this year. The firm is also moving towards a model with more counsel, fewer partners so they can keep their paycheck/share as big as possible. Talent/intellect is not rewarded- ability to play the game is. In my opinion, which isn’t worth much, the market/rate pressure on big law firms is going to fundamentally reshape the business. The whole deal firms make with associates is that you are overpaid to put up with the terrible working conditions. They won’t be able to pay associates that way if this continues, and no one will put up with partner bullshit for peanuts. And the people at the top of the pyramid right now are so out of touch with the economic reality millenials face they won’t realize this until it’s too late.

As in-house counsel for a Fortune 500, I can attest to this. We're thinning the herd of law firms we use, capping fees and reducing our use of outside counsel in favor of in-house resources. BIGLAW is good for making some cash to pay off loans and learning your craft.

Also, many mid-sized companies are using virtual law firms and regional law firms that are filled with BIGLAW refugees. Same quality (some would say better), with a 1/2 to 2/3 hourly billing rate.

I'm also in-house counsel for a large company. We try to avoid BIGLAW unless we're dealing with a big merger or high profile lawsuit. Even then, if we have regional counsel we trust, we'll opt for them.

Also inhouse and I third this. We use virtual law firms and save a ton without sacrificing quality. We also have done more in-house hiring to avoid farming routine work out to biglaw. The next recession will see massive layoffs and closures in biglaw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a junior associate at a ‘top’ firm that has been thinning the partner ranks aggressively this year. The firm is also moving towards a model with more counsel, fewer partners so they can keep their paycheck/share as big as possible. Talent/intellect is not rewarded- ability to play the game is. In my opinion, which isn’t worth much, the market/rate pressure on big law firms is going to fundamentally reshape the business. The whole deal firms make with associates is that you are overpaid to put up with the terrible working conditions. They won’t be able to pay associates that way if this continues, and no one will put up with partner bullshit for peanuts. And the people at the top of the pyramid right now are so out of touch with the economic reality millenials face they won’t realize this until it’s too late.

As in-house counsel for a Fortune 500, I can attest to this. We're thinning the herd of law firms we use, capping fees and reducing our use of outside counsel in favor of in-house resources. BIGLAW is good for making some cash to pay off loans and learning your craft.

Also, many mid-sized companies are using virtual law firms and regional law firms that are filled with BIGLAW refugees. Same quality (some would say better), with a 1/2 to 2/3 hourly billing rate.

I'm also in-house counsel for a large company. We try to avoid BIGLAW unless we're dealing with a big merger or high profile lawsuit. Even then, if we have regional counsel we trust, we'll opt for them.

When I worked in top law firms years ago as a legal secretary, I was privileged to salary data. A junior non-equity partner at a top firm back then was probably in the $350-$450k range. I suspect it's slightly higher with inflation now.

Non-equity partners are just essentially employees, but with "partner" added to their name. It's usually not a big deal (unless their experts and/or been around for a while), and they can be demoted (and are quite frequently) and let go at will. At law firms that I worked at, if you weren't made a junior partner or counsel by the end of your 7th or 8th year as an associate, you were inching yourself close to the door. As one becomes more senior as an associate, these firms would expect you to either start growing your own (or theirs) book of business, and/or 1st chair transactions/cases. If they saw such in you, you'd almost always get the standard promotion to junior partner (or counsel). If you didn't, you'd get the hint to look for a new job.

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, non-equity junior partner at a top biglaw law firm in DC ranges from 500K-700K, depending on the firm, + bonus. Equity starts much higher (700K+).

+1

Law firms merge or merge practices and some partners do not get invited. Therefore they don’t work there anymore.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a junior associate at a ‘top’ firm that has been thinning the partner ranks aggressively this year. The firm is also moving towards a model with more counsel, fewer partners so they can keep their paycheck/share as big as possible. Talent/intellect is not rewarded- ability to play the game is. In my opinion, which isn’t worth much, the market/rate pressure on big law firms is going to fundamentally reshape the business. The whole deal firms make with associates is that you are overpaid to put up with the terrible working conditions. They won’t be able to pay associates that way if this continues, and no one will put up with partner bullshit for peanuts. And the people at the top of the pyramid right now are so out of touch with the economic reality millenials face they won’t realize this until it’s too late.

As in-house counsel for a Fortune 500, I can attest to this. We're thinning the herd of law firms we use, capping fees and reducing our use of outside counsel in favor of in-house resources. BIGLAW is good for making some cash to pay off loans and learning your craft.

Also, many mid-sized companies are using virtual law firms and regional law firms that are filled with BIGLAW refugees. Same quality (some would say better), with a 1/2 to 2/3 hourly billing rate.

I’m a junior associate at a ‘top’ firm that has been thinning the partner ranks aggressively this year. The firm is also moving towards a model with more counsel, fewer partners so they can keep their paycheck/share as big as possible. Talent/intellect is not rewarded- ability to play the game is. In my opinion, which isn’t worth much, the market/rate pressure on big law firms is going to fundamentally reshape the business. The whole deal firms make with associates is that you are overpaid to put up with the terrible working conditions. They won’t be able to pay associates that way if this continues, and no one will put up with partner bullshit for peanuts. And the people at the top of the pyramid right now are so out of touch with the economic reality millenials face they won’t realize this until it’s too late.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But once you are partner its almost impossible to be fired right? That has a lot of value too.

Hahahahaha!

Sigh.

Please explain. That is also what I heard. ALMOST impossible be fired once you are a big law partner, right? Not saying impossible, but ALMOST impossible.

You are thinking about the federal government attorneys. Oh, wait.....

Worked in a big law firm for over 10 years. Never remember a partner being fired. Give an example a big law parter being fired?

There are many ways to push a partner out without technically firing him/her. And it isn’t rare.

Partners get pushed out of top firms on a regular basis, all the time. It's extremely common.

+1

Inadvertently rode the elevator with a senior partner that got pushed out at our firm once. Literally, took his box of stuff and was departing the firm that second. They don't have to give them notice when they do it. It was a long ride. It definitely happens often, and it is definitely done as quietly as possible, for the most part. Also, they are not allowed to take their clients with them, or there are huge law suits that follow. Guess who usually wins? Not the guy who left. So much sh*t goes down at law firms that most employees don't know about.

This senior partner must be fired for cause (e.g. sexual harassment, stealing, etc.). Cannot image a firm let a senior partner go for merely performance reasons (eg not generating enough revenue)

Lol.

+1 for the LOL. I will add that the numerous examples I have seen are usually because of mean boy/girl behavior more than anything else. As you get to the top of the peak the behavior gets much more intense and competitive. A lot of quiet infighting and behind-the-scenes deal-making. Biglaw definitely eats its own.

Are the partners with mean boy/girl behaviors being pushed out? Or mean partners push others (mean or non-mean) out?

My observation is that they are all jostling for position and maintaining their footing, and they use mean boy/girl behaviors as part of it. And the paras / secretaries are part of the scene, too, protecting their boss. Sometimes there is a status quo but if something upsets the balance (a big win, a big loss, an embarrassment, a family problem) then it can get ugly. It may look like a cushy ride but you are always waiting for the knife in your back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$300K for junior non-equity partner. And our firm does not grant equity status as the two owners want it all for themselves.

Sounds like this probably isn't a "top DC law firm..."

Boutique construction with huge clients I won’t disclose here. But, yes they are a “”top” form. They just don’t pay their workers market rate. Imagine that.

Anonymous wrote:$300K for junior non-equity partner. And our firm does not grant equity status as the two owners want it all for themselves.

Sounds like this probably isn't a "top DC law firm..."

In my experience, non-equity junior partner at a top biglaw law firm in DC ranges from 500K-700K, depending on the firm, + bonus. Equity starts much higher (700K+).