Anonymous wrote:They are a giant financial sink hole with no upside.
I've had three and all are teenagers now. They are total jerks and act like they know it all. The oldest is heading to college next year so even when they turn 18 they are not off the books.
Without kids my net worth would be a lot more.

I love them but they are not useful to me. I was researching state law recently and ran across a few sections that discussed a parent legal right to all earned income of their children. It got me thinking that once children worked and contributed to the household. Any more they just suck up resources and provide absolutely no benefit to anyone.

My wife says they are going to help us when we are old. I calculated it up and if I had invested all the money spent on kids there would be more than enough to pay for high quality elder care. I think that might have worked out better than expecting children not to move away and show up once a week to see if we fell down a broke a hip.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t have kids to start with for the “benefit.” Objectively they are loud, dirty, difficult and make your life chaos. You have them because you want to nurture and grow a human being, and you love them.

So they have zero utility. They are in effect a luxury item?

Anonymous wrote:Ever see Snowpiercer? Small hands for tight spaces!

Anonymous wrote:I have been kind of surprised at how unenjoyable large parts of the having kids enterprise has been.

On an UMC income, you can often end up with precious little left over for any kind of enjoyment luxuries once you have coughed up for what is not expected for UMC kids -- music lessons, extensive SAT tutoring, test prep; daycare; sports lessons, daycamps, more tutors, driving lessons, orthodontics, etc. It's entirely possible to be UMC and still live in a tiny house and drive old cars while saving all your money for college.

It seems like the only way around that is to only have one child.

I also was simply not prepared for the fact that today expectations are that you will be "on" all the time with your kids, that you have to go over every homework assignment, stay at the music lesson with them, know all the kids' friends, be at the elementary school seemingly all the time volunteering, that you will use up all your leave some years just staying home with sick kids and volunteering at school with no time left over for a vacation. (In other words, parenting seems like a lot more fun in Europe than it does in the US what with maternity leave, generous summer vacations and a lot less parental input into the schools.)

I also didn't expect it would feel so damned lonely. If your kids are doing well at something -- music, athletics, school -- you may find that you are therefore surrounded by competimommies who want to race your musician against theirs, your athlete against theirs. Not a lot of real true friendship there. If your kid has issues, people will avoid you.

I've been amazed at how stressful parenting is in this environment, how lonely it is and how expensive it is. It is not at all what I envisioned. The kids are great but all the other stuff kinda sucks.

Anonymous wrote:I have been kind of surprised at how unenjoyable large parts of the having kids enterprise has been.

On an UMC income, you can often end up with precious little left over for any kind of enjoyment luxuries once you have coughed up for what is not expected for UMC kids -- music lessons, extensive SAT tutoring, test prep; daycare; sports lessons, daycamps, more tutors, driving lessons, orthodontics, etc. It's entirely possible to be UMC and still live in a tiny house and drive old cars while saving all your money for college.

It seems like the only way around that is to only have one child.

I also was simply not prepared for the fact that today expectations are that you will be "on" all the time with your kids, that you have to go over every homework assignment, stay at the music lesson with them, know all the kids' friends, be at the elementary school seemingly all the time volunteering, that you will use up all your leave some years just staying home with sick kids and volunteering at school with no time left over for a vacation. (In other words, parenting seems like a lot more fun in Europe than it does in the US what with maternity leave, generous summer vacations and a lot less parental input into the schools.)

I also didn't expect it would feel so damned lonely. If your kids are doing well at something -- music, athletics, school -- you may find that you are therefore surrounded by competimommies who want to race your musician against theirs, your athlete against theirs. Not a lot of real true friendship there. If your kid has issues, people will avoid you.

I've been amazed at how stressful parenting is in this environment, how lonely it is and how expensive it is. It is not at all what I envisioned. The kids are great but all the other stuff kinda sucks.

Anonymous wrote:I have been kind of surprised at how unenjoyable large parts of the having kids enterprise has been.

On an UMC income, you can often end up with precious little left over for any kind of enjoyment luxuries once you have coughed up for what is not expected for UMC kids -- music lessons, extensive SAT tutoring, test prep; daycare; sports lessons, daycamps, more tutors, driving lessons, orthodontics, etc. It's entirely possible to be UMC and still live in a tiny house and drive old cars while saving all your money for college.

It seems like the only way around that is to only have one child.

I also was simply not prepared for the fact that today expectations are that you will be "on" all the time with your kids, that you have to go over every homework assignment, stay at the music lesson with them, know all the kids' friends, be at the elementary school seemingly all the time volunteering, that you will use up all your leave some years just staying home with sick kids and volunteering at school with no time left over for a vacation. (In other words, parenting seems like a lot more fun in Europe than it does in the US what with maternity leave, generous summer vacations and a lot less parental input into the schools.)

I also didn't expect it would feel so damned lonely. If your kids are doing well at something -- music, athletics, school -- you may find that you are therefore surrounded by competimommies who want to race your musician against theirs, your athlete against theirs. Not a lot of real true friendship there. If your kid has issues, people will avoid you.

I've been amazed at how stressful parenting is in this environment, how lonely it is and how expensive it is. It is not at all what I envisioned. The kids are great but all the other stuff kinda sucks.

Anonymous wrote:I was a child model. If you had cuter kids, they could have contributed to the household income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been kind of surprised at how unenjoyable large parts of the having kids enterprise has been.

On an UMC income, you can often end up with precious little left over for any kind of enjoyment luxuries once you have coughed up for what is not expected for UMC kids -- music lessons, extensive SAT tutoring, test prep; daycare; sports lessons, daycamps, more tutors, driving lessons, orthodontics, etc. It's entirely possible to be UMC and still live in a tiny house and drive old cars while saving all your money for college.

It seems like the only way around that is to only have one child.

I also was simply not prepared for the fact that today expectations are that you will be "on" all the time with your kids, that you have to go over every homework assignment, stay at the music lesson with them, know all the kids' friends, be at the elementary school seemingly all the time volunteering, that you will use up all your leave some years just staying home with sick kids and volunteering at school with no time left over for a vacation. (In other words, parenting seems like a lot more fun in Europe than it does in the US what with maternity leave, generous summer vacations and a lot less parental input into the schools.)

I also didn't expect it would feel so damned lonely. If your kids are doing well at something -- music, athletics, school -- you may find that you are therefore surrounded by competimommies who want to race your musician against theirs, your athlete against theirs. Not a lot of real true friendship there. If your kid has issues, people will avoid you.

I've been amazed at how stressful parenting is in this environment, how lonely it is and how expensive it is. It is not at all what I envisioned. The kids are great but all the other stuff kinda sucks.

I have two awesome kids but can completely identify with this poster. I am from Europe and my sister’s motherhood experience is definitely more relaxed, cheaper and less isolated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are quick to jump on OP but it’s one reason birthrates are down in industrialized nations. And that’s a good thing. One thing that drives me nuts about this website is that someone comes on saying they don’t know if they should have kids, and then everyone tries to talk them into it. Why? If you’re at all unsure, don’t have them. And certainly don’t view them as a financial investment.

Well it's a "thing," but not at all clear that it's good. If we don't get back to a 2.0 replacement rate soon, the effects on public policy could be enormous. Medicare, Social Security, etc will all have to be reevaluated in light of an older population with fewer and fewer young workers to sustain it. Just ask China, which is grappling with some unintended consequences of its "one child" policy.

Anonymous wrote:I have been kind of surprised at how unenjoyable large parts of the having kids enterprise has been.

On an UMC income, you can often end up with precious little left over for any kind of enjoyment luxuries once you have coughed up for what is not expected for UMC kids -- music lessons, extensive SAT tutoring, test prep; daycare; sports lessons, daycamps, more tutors, driving lessons, orthodontics, etc. It's entirely possible to be UMC and still live in a tiny house and drive old cars while saving all your money for college.

It seems like the only way around that is to only have one child.

I also was simply not prepared for the fact that today expectations are that you will be "on" all the time with your kids, that you have to go over every homework assignment, stay at the music lesson with them, know all the kids' friends, be at the elementary school seemingly all the time volunteering, that you will use up all your leave some years just staying home with sick kids and volunteering at school with no time left over for a vacation. (In other words, parenting seems like a lot more fun in Europe than it does in the US what with maternity leave, generous summer vacations and a lot less parental input into the schools.)

I also didn't expect it would feel so damned lonely. If your kids are doing well at something -- music, athletics, school -- you may find that you are therefore surrounded by competimommies who want to race your musician against theirs, your athlete against theirs. Not a lot of real true friendship there. If your kid has issues, people will avoid you.

I've been amazed at how stressful parenting is in this environment, how lonely it is and how expensive it is. It is not at all what I envisioned. The kids are great but all the other stuff kinda sucks.