Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

Cats are the oldest domesticated animal on earth. Domesticated cats and dogs bear very little resemblance to their ancient ancestors. Birds are not even classified as domesticated. They are native species exploited by the pet industry. They are considered captive WILD animals. Dogs and Cats have EVOLVED to live with humans. Birds in the wild have a natural range of THOUSANDS of miles. A bird does not belong in a cage. Even if it gets to fly around your townhouse banging into windows.

Comparing a dog and cat to birds is just idiotic. Birds do not belong as pets. Period.

Owning a bird is ignorant and low class.

Gosh, you’re really ignorant.

Sure, cats have been domesticated—as mousers in your barn and fields. Not sleeping all day on your chair, which is a very recent development. Talk to any TNR nutcase about how cats need to exercise their “natural instincts” by going outside. (I keep my cat inside because of the damage to wildlife, but I give her enrichment.) It’s widely accepted that cats are not really domesticated—read “The Tiger in Your Living Room” and educate yourself.

I’m all for adopting parrots (and cats and dogs) instead of going to breeders. But you clearly know nothing about parrots. With lots of socialization, they can be very happy, and live longer. You seem to have a misty-eyed vision of nature, which is actually, as they say, red in tooth and claw.

And low class? Don’t make yourself look ridiculous. Dolly Madison and Winston Churchill owned parrots. Also, pretty sure I’d outclass you on nearly every measure (family, antiques, education) so don’t pull that DCUM class-obsessing nonsense.

Signed, we own a parrot and a cat

Dp. You do know TRL is to reduce the cat population eventually? The majority of people who do this not because they beliebe in natural instincts but that many of these cats are unadoptable and are feral. Recently there has been a push to get people to adopt feral cats to kill rats and other pests.

Please stop with thy he name calling. Those who TNR are not nutcases. You accuse the pp of ignorance. Mayybe you should look in the mirror

Multiple studies have shown that TNR doesn’t work unless you can catch and neuter the entire feral cat population. Since this is impossible, TNR does not work. Meanwhile the feral cats are disease-ridden, get hit by cats, and worse. TNR is really inhumane.

^ where are you getting that nonsense from? TNR is effective and humane - and, importantly, is much more effective and humane than the alternatives. I work in animal welfare - I know the studies.

OP you will be cleaning up or nagging your kid then helping him clean up for 8-10 years. You could have this creature when he goes off to college! Birds are very messy. And I agree get a cockatiel or parakeet if you must.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

Cats are the oldest domesticated animal on earth. Domesticated cats and dogs bear very little resemblance to their ancient ancestors. Birds are not even classified as domesticated. They are native species exploited by the pet industry. They are considered captive WILD animals. Dogs and Cats have EVOLVED to live with humans. Birds in the wild have a natural range of THOUSANDS of miles. A bird does not belong in a cage. Even if it gets to fly around your townhouse banging into windows.

Comparing a dog and cat to birds is just idiotic. Birds do not belong as pets. Period.

Owning a bird is ignorant and low class.

Gosh, you’re really ignorant.

Sure, cats have been domesticated—as mousers in your barn and fields. Not sleeping all day on your chair, which is a very recent development. Talk to any TNR nutcase about how cats need to exercise their “natural instincts” by going outside. (I keep my cat inside because of the damage to wildlife, but I give her enrichment.) It’s widely accepted that cats are not really domesticated—read “The Tiger in Your Living Room” and educate yourself.

I’m all for adopting parrots (and cats and dogs) instead of going to breeders. But you clearly know nothing about parrots. With lots of socialization, they can be very happy, and live longer. You seem to have a misty-eyed vision of nature, which is actually, as they say, red in tooth and claw.

And low class? Don’t make yourself look ridiculous. Dolly Madison and Winston Churchill owned parrots. Also, pretty sure I’d outclass you on nearly every measure (family, antiques, education) so don’t pull that DCUM class-obsessing nonsense.

Signed, we own a parrot and a cat

Dp. You do know TRL is to reduce the cat population eventually? The majority of people who do this not because they beliebe in natural instincts but that many of these cats are unadoptable and are feral. Recently there has been a push to get people to adopt feral cats to kill rats and other pests.

Please stop with thy he name calling. Those who TNR are not nutcases. You accuse the pp of ignorance. Mayybe you should look in the mirror

Multiple studies have shown that TNR doesn’t work unless you can catch and neuter the entire feral cat population. Since this is impossible, TNR does not work. Meanwhile the feral cats are disease-ridden, get hit by cats, and worse. TNR is really inhumane.

Owning a bird is not for everyone.

We have a bird, and he is a big part of our family. His wings aren't clipped so he flies around the house a lot. Any time we are home, he is out of his cage.
Our birdie has a lot of personality and we find him funny. He attached to my husband early on, he is always on his shoulder. Parrots are very smart and social, so they do need attention, they give you a lot of love in return.
They poop a lot, so it's annoying to find poops around the house from time to time, our is potty trained, he poops over trashcan or in his cage, but a few will slip.

Depending on the breed they can live a long time, upwards of 30 years.
I am sad that there is stigma to having birds as pets, they really are lovely animals, and are af fun and loveable as your dogs. They just require different type of care. But then again, maybe it's a good thing, since not everyone would be a good care taker. Don't judge those who do own birds, we don't judge your dogs or cats.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

Cats are the oldest domesticated animal on earth. Domesticated cats and dogs bear very little resemblance to their ancient ancestors. Birds are not even classified as domesticated. They are native species exploited by the pet industry. They are considered captive WILD animals. Dogs and Cats have EVOLVED to live with humans. Birds in the wild have a natural range of THOUSANDS of miles. A bird does not belong in a cage. Even if it gets to fly around your townhouse banging into windows.

Comparing a dog and cat to birds is just idiotic. Birds do not belong as pets. Period.

Owning a bird is ignorant and low class.

Gosh, you’re really ignorant.

Sure, cats have been domesticated—as mousers in your barn and fields. Not sleeping all day on your chair, which is a very recent development. Talk to any TNR nutcase about how cats need to exercise their “natural instincts” by going outside. (I keep my cat inside because of the damage to wildlife, but I give her enrichment.) It’s widely accepted that cats are not really domesticated—read “The Tiger in Your Living Room” and educate yourself.

I’m all for adopting parrots (and cats and dogs) instead of going to breeders. But you clearly know nothing about parrots. With lots of socialization, they can be very happy, and live longer. You seem to have a misty-eyed vision of nature, which is actually, as they say, red in tooth and claw.

And low class? Don’t make yourself look ridiculous. Dolly Madison and Winston Churchill owned parrots. Also, pretty sure I’d outclass you on nearly every measure (family, antiques, education) so don’t pull that DCUM class-obsessing nonsense.

Signed, we own a parrot and a cat

Dp. You do know TRL is to reduce the cat population eventually? The majority of people who do this not because they beliebe in natural instincts but that many of these cats are unadoptable and are feral. Recently there has been a push to get people to adopt feral cats to kill rats and other pests.

Please stop with thy he name calling. Those who TNR are not nutcases. You accuse the pp of ignorance. Mayybe you should look in the mirror

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

Cats are the oldest domesticated animal on earth. Domesticated cats and dogs bear very little resemblance to their ancient ancestors. Birds are not even classified as domesticated. They are native species exploited by the pet industry. They are considered captive WILD animals. Dogs and Cats have EVOLVED to live with humans. Birds in the wild have a natural range of THOUSANDS of miles. A bird does not belong in a cage. Even if it gets to fly around your townhouse banging into windows.

Comparing a dog and cat to birds is just idiotic. Birds do not belong as pets. Period.

Owning a bird is ignorant and low class.

You are the only one coming off as ignorant and low class around here.

Why not look into volunteering with your son at a local wildlife sanctuary or rescue?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

Cats are the oldest domesticated animal on earth. Domesticated cats and dogs bear very little resemblance to their ancient ancestors. Birds are not even classified as domesticated. They are native species exploited by the pet industry. They are considered captive WILD animals. Dogs and Cats have EVOLVED to live with humans. Birds in the wild have a natural range of THOUSANDS of miles. A bird does not belong in a cage. Even if it gets to fly around your townhouse banging into windows.

Comparing a dog and cat to birds is just idiotic. Birds do not belong as pets. Period.

Owning a bird is ignorant and low class.

Gosh, you’re really ignorant.

Sure, cats have been domesticated—as mousers in your barn and fields. Not sleeping all day on your chair, which is a very recent development. Talk to any TNR nutcase about how cats need to exercise their “natural instincts” by going outside. (I keep my cat inside because of the damage to wildlife, but I give her enrichment.) It’s widely accepted that cats are not really domesticated—read “The Tiger in Your Living Room” and educate yourself.

I’m all for adopting parrots (and cats and dogs) instead of going to breeders. But you clearly know nothing about parrots. With lots of socialization, they can be very happy, and live longer. You seem to have a misty-eyed vision of nature, which is actually, as they say, red in tooth and claw.

And low class? Don’t make yourself look ridiculous. Dolly Madison and Winston Churchill owned parrots. Also, pretty sure I’d outclass you on nearly every measure (family, antiques, education) so don’t pull that DCUM class-obsessing nonsense.

Signed, we own a parrot and a cat

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

Cats are the oldest domesticated animal on earth. Domesticated cats and dogs bear very little resemblance to their ancient ancestors. Birds are not even classified as domesticated. They are native species exploited by the pet industry. They are considered captive WILD animals. Dogs and Cats have EVOLVED to live with humans. Birds in the wild have a natural range of THOUSANDS of miles. A bird does not belong in a cage. Even if it gets to fly around your townhouse banging into windows.

Comparing a dog and cat to birds is just idiotic. Birds do not belong as pets. Period.

Owning a bird is ignorant and low class.

Anonymous wrote:Ok. I've had birds, worked in a parrot store when a teen, had a birdsitting service (as a teen), over the years have rescued a conure, amazon, cockatiels, parakeets (also called budgerigars) and a 30 year relationship with a cockatoo I rescued.

1) agree with other people that you would be taking care of this parrot.

2) agree that parrots are not domesticated but tame wild animals, and as flock animals and prey animals they need lots of attention from people or other birds. Would not have a cage in a bedroom but should be where people congregate. They should not be alone.

3) Agree in theory that parrots should not be pets; however; in reality there are rescues who really need adopting.

4) The short story is for a kid's first parrot, stick with a parakeet or a cockatiel. Others are too big and needy--their bite is too hard, their screech is too loud, and many can rip up furniture in a heartbeat. I have extra table legs in the garage thanks to my umbrella cockatoo.

I currently board the cockatoo at a sanctuary--I pay serious $$ to keep her boarded rather than relinquish her, because I don't want her adopted out to someone who may breed her. We don't need more cockatoos in captivity; so many need adopting. I board the cockatoo because honestly, I was over my head...adopting a cockatoo at 25 is one thing, but when you are 40 and have little kids, it got to be too difficult. I'm 53 now; my cockatoo is very happy and has many people and parrots to play with.

5) Between parakeet and cockatiel, the cockatiel is a big bird's brain in a little body. Smart. Sweet. Likes attention but isn't a bottomless pit of "need" like a cockatoo is. It's the ideal pet for someone like me. He knows a mirror is just a mirror, not his best friend.

However; for a kid, I'd lean to a parakeet. A male parakeet with a mirror in the cage so he doesn't get lonely. Males chatter happily; females listen. You can tell it's a male because it will have a blue cere (nose). Females have brown. Young have light lilac/violet, and really young might have dark blotches on their yellow beaks.

6) Right now in our house we have a rescue cockatiel and a male parakeet. Their cage doors are open all day. If you find a cage where the front door opens from the top and comes down to make sort of a "ramp", the parrots love that and they will sit at the entrance ramp of their cage. The parakeet can fly where he wants; we trimmed the cockatiel's wings just to tame him; when he molts he will be flighted. Kids shower with him.

7) Parrots do not only eat seed so please feed your parrot human food too, warm and soft..noodles, greens, sprouts, anything BUT NOT dairy, chocolate, alcohol, avocado.

8) Get rid of your non-stick pans; if they get too hot they release a gas that will kill a bird in seconds.

9) Cover your parrot's cage at night. Again, they are prey animals and need to feel they are safe and not exposed. Also, read up on how the length of daylight affects breeding behavior (which is not ideal behavior) so how strategically covering the cage to keep "winter hours" will keep your bird from going into breeding mode.

Hope that helps!

#7. Don’t forget garlic and onions are also on the “no” list! . There are plenty of high quality pellet diets, which we feed ours in addition to fresh fruit and vegetables .
#8. This also applies to using the self-clean option on an oven. We also stay away from scented candles, air fresheners, etc.

We’ve had a parrot for close to 14 years. He’s mainly bonded to me, but will go to others in our house. His cage door is open all day so he can go in and take a nap, eat, play with the toys inside when he wants to. He has toys outside his cage as well as a second food and water bowl. If we’re not home when it’s his bedtime, he’ll go in on his own, but comes back out when we walk in so that we do his normal bedtime routine in addition to saying goodnight.
He’s trained to poop in the trash can in the morning and gives us warnings when we’re holding him that he has to go.
In terms of being loud, he’s actually a lot quieter than the cockatiels a friend had. They are flock animals, so a “where are you” locator yell/scream is not uncommon, but you can train them to use a particular whistle so they know where you are in the house if you walk out of visual range.
We do vacuum quite a bit and his cage is cleaned throughout the week with a big cleaning 1-2 times a week.

You do quickly learn bird body language - tired, playful, don’t touch me or I’ll nip/bite you (pinpoint pupils vs them making their pupils go big/small - they can control over their pupillary construction!). They are very social and need interaction and things to play with. Otherwise, they can start self-harming in the form of plucking their own feathers.

Ours gives kisses and can be quite snuggly/loving, but he has his moments when he’s not. He’s grumpy when he’s molting since new feathers coming in are itchy.

As others have suggested, Phoenix Landing is a great resource and can help make sure you know what you’re getting into if you decide to get a bird. If you go on vacation, who will take care of it and spend time with it? Yearly avian vet visit cost plus potential visits (nail trim).

Anonymous wrote:Another vote against getting a parrot or one of the longer-lived species, since it very well could end up being a lifetime commitment on your part. I know of a couple of parrots who outlived their owners. In one case, the parrot didn’t get along with the spouse, so an adult child stepped in (and then the parrot didn’t get along with the child’s spouse when she eventually married). I was friends with the adult child (the second owner) and that bird was a LOT of work, though she loved it dearly. In the other instance, I don’t know what happened to the bird when the original owner died

Parakeets and cockatiels live, what, 8-15 years? These are also good, sweet starter birds. Only more experienced bird owners should take on cockatoos, greys, amazons and the bigger birds.

OP, if you decide to take the plunge, I’d strongly recommend a parakeet or cockatiel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never allowed my son to have birds. I don't believe in them as pets. Birds were meant to fly and we are not equipped to offer them an appropriate environment. Also, birds can be quite difficult to care for properly.

+1

It is cruel to own a caged bird.

Do you have a cat? Keeping your cat indoors is unnatural and cruel, but that’s absolutely what you should be doing because cats are invasive species and kill millions of rodents and birds, who didn’t evolve to deal with housecats, every year.

Keeping fish in an unclean fish tank is cruel.

Keeping a dog and not giving it love and attention is cruel.

Pet ownership is s mixed bag everywhere, and there’s plenty of cruelty to go around. A well-socialized bird with plenty of time outside the cage and maybe a bird friend is no worse than any of the scenarios above.

The bolded is ridiculous. Your opinion, maybe. But far from fact. And not like the other things you mention at all.

Cats like to hunt and kill. It’s what they do, ask any TNR whackadoodle. That said, cats belong indoors because they’re killing other animals and even driving some to extinction outside the Middle East, where they originally came from. Yet keeping an indoor cat who sleeps on the sofa 23 hours a day (like my mom’s cat) is unnatural. You think your indoor cat is happy, but how can you tell, and happy relative to what? If you can get all misty-eyed about free flight in the Amazon (as a prey bird, which is actually really stressful), then why aren’t you concerned about stifling your cat’s natural behavior, which is killing rodents somewhere in the Middle East?

I’m against parrot ownership for most people, because most people don’t know how to give a parrot the socialization it needs while avoiding hormonal behavior. You don’t know much about parrots, is the problem.

Another vote against getting a parrot or one of the longer-lived species, since it very well could end up being a lifetime commitment on your part. I know of a couple of parrots who outlived their owners. In one case, the parrot didn’t get along with the spouse, so an adult child stepped in (and then the parrot didn’t get along with the child’s spouse when she eventually married). I was friends with the adult child (the second owner) and that bird was a LOT of work, though she loved it dearly. In the other instance, I don’t know what happened to the bird when the original owner died

Ok. I've had birds, worked in a parrot store when a teen, had a birdsitting service (as a teen), over the years have rescued a conure, amazon, cockatiels, parakeets (also called budgerigars) and a 30 year relationship with a cockatoo I rescued.

1) agree with other people that you would be taking care of this parrot.

2) agree that parrots are not domesticated but tame wild animals, and as flock animals and prey animals they need lots of attention from people or other birds. Would not have a cage in a bedroom but should be where people congregate. They should not be alone.

3) Agree in theory that parrots should not be pets; however; in reality there are rescues who really need adopting.

4) The short story is for a kid's first parrot, stick with a parakeet or a cockatiel. Others are too big and needy--their bite is too hard, their screech is too loud, and many can rip up furniture in a heartbeat. I have extra table legs in the garage thanks to my umbrella cockatoo.

I currently board the cockatoo at a sanctuary--I pay serious $$ to keep her boarded rather than relinquish her, because I don't want her adopted out to someone who may breed her. We don't need more cockatoos in captivity; so many need adopting. I board the cockatoo because honestly, I was over my head...adopting a cockatoo at 25 is one thing, but when you are 40 and have little kids, it got to be too difficult. I'm 53 now; my cockatoo is very happy and has many people and parrots to play with.

5) Between parakeet and cockatiel, the cockatiel is a big bird's brain in a little body. Smart. Sweet. Likes attention but isn't a bottomless pit of "need" like a cockatoo is. It's the ideal pet for someone like me. He knows a mirror is just a mirror, not his best friend.

However; for a kid, I'd lean to a parakeet. A male parakeet with a mirror in the cage so he doesn't get lonely. Males chatter happily; females listen. You can tell it's a male because it will have a blue cere (nose). Females have brown. Young have light lilac/violet, and really young might have dark blotches on their yellow beaks.

6) Right now in our house we have a rescue cockatiel and a male parakeet. Their cage doors are open all day. If you find a cage where the front door opens from the top and comes down to make sort of a "ramp", the parrots love that and they will sit at the entrance ramp of their cage. The parakeet can fly where he wants; we trimmed the cockatiel's wings just to tame him; when he molts he will be flighted. Kids shower with him.

7) Parrots do not only eat seed so please feed your parrot human food too, warm and soft..noodles, greens, sprouts, anything BUT NOT dairy, chocolate, alcohol, avocado.

8) Get rid of your non-stick pans; if they get too hot they release a gas that will kill a bird in seconds.

9) Cover your parrot's cage at night. Again, they are prey animals and need to feel they are safe and not exposed. Also, read up on how the length of daylight affects breeding behavior (which is not ideal behavior) so how strategically covering the cage to keep "winter hours" will keep your bird from going into breeding mode.

Hope that helps!

I've had parakeets almost my whole life. They are fairly low-maintenance (but you must get at least 2 or more as they are social animals and will be very depressed alone) but can be dirty if you do not keep the cage cleaned every day. Mainly it is feathers, dust, and seed hulls. They need fruits and vegetables, something to chew on, cuttle bones, in addition to the seeds and water. They can be placed outside on a shady, temperate (not too hot or cold) day on a porch for a few hours but you must bring them in on time; never let them sit in the sun. They really enjoy being outside very much. You can also learn to handle them/let them fly around indoors. Their poop is fairly easy to clean up and not a big deal. No odors. A fair amount of noise but no screeches, just a constant chatter that you'll be subjected to constantly when they are active.