Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 18:53     Subject: Re:AAP official percentage of 20.8%
AAP doesn’t even require an IQ test to get in.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 17:37     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
The reason for all the bloat is AAP kids aren't very special.

It's embarrassing when Gen Ed kids do better academically. AAP begrudgingly, eventually, admits the high performers rather than suffer more embarrassment.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 15:55     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Then, by all means, take your 1% special snowflake who needs to be catered to and find a private school that will meet your needs.

Wow. So, in your view, parents who have kids with a 140+ IQ and want them to receive appropriate gifted education, as mandated by the state, are whiny special snowflakes, yet the masses of parents with bright, mainstream kids who are expecting their kids to be given a gifted label, bused to a completely different school, and separated from those unwashed masses with IQs and achievement levels only a hair's breadth lower are perfectly fine? My DD is a very average AAP kid. She's bright and high achieving, but not gifted. We're going along with the system, because it is what it is, but the whole thing is really absurd. Of the 30 kids in her grade who were accepted into LIV, maybe 5 of them really needed it. The rest are just normal, bright kids.


We just moved from a worse FCPS pyramid to a better one. At our new school, not a big deal because school is full of affluent kids. At our old base, the gen ed caters to low performers. This bothered me greatly when my kid was there. Sure, he probably isn’t really gifted but he did score high and got into aap. I think keeping him at his old non aap school would have been a huge disservice to him. The center aap was great. All the bright kids came together and peer group was excellent. His old base school was 30% ESOL/free lunch.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 15:49     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Many of us have noted that in the past that being gifted was required to get into AAP and think it still should be required. If the program were restricted to gifted kids, it could once again be a rigorous program that actually meets the needs of the kids whom it is mandated to serve. The program has been slowed down so much by all of the above average kids, that it no longer adequately serves the gifted kids.


Until your kid isn’t invited. Then you will be upset.

Nope. I'm totally cool with my very average-in-AAP DD being sent back to the base school, as long as at least half of the AAP kids are sent back as well. I loved the base school! I think it's less toxic for both AAP kids and gen ed kids when AAP is a smaller program serving only the kids who are way above and beyond. Part of the reason that there's so much ill-will and anxiety about AAP is that it's so large that being in seems more the norm for higher SES kids than not being in.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 15:44     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:Then, by all means, take your 1% special snowflake who needs to be catered to and find a private school that will meet your needs.

Wow. So, in your view, parents who have kids with a 140+ IQ and want them to receive appropriate gifted education, as mandated by the state, are whiny special snowflakes, yet the masses of parents with bright, mainstream kids who are expecting their kids to be given a gifted label, bused to a completely different school, and separated from those unwashed masses with IQs and achievement levels only a hair's breadth lower are perfectly fine? My DD is a very average AAP kid. She's bright and high achieving, but not gifted. We're going along with the system, because it is what it is, but the whole thing is really absurd. Of the 30 kids in her grade who were accepted into LIV, maybe 5 of them really needed it. The rest are just normal, bright kids.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 15:42     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

There's also been an explosion in ESOL and FARMS kids. I've worked with a lot of AAP kids in math over the last few years, and many of them are above average and very motivated, but nothing special. They're not gifted. They're just regular smart kids.


it's not required to get into AAP. Why keep beating this dead horse?


Many of us have noted that in the past that being gifted was required to get into AAP and think it still should be required. If the program were restricted to gifted kids, it could once again be a rigorous program that actually meets the needs of the kids whom it is mandated to serve. The program has been slowed down so much by all of the above average kids, that it no longer adequately serves the gifted kids.


Until your kid isn’t invited. Then you will be upset.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 15:19     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I have read on here and in the past seen a link showing the State of Virginia reviewed and approves FCPS's AAP program as meeting the "Mandate" of the state's gifted education law. So Virginia thinks they're in compliance, but I understand you don't.


Have they observed actual AAP classrooms, witnessed how not-overly-smart many of the kids are, how the curriculum is barely more advanced than gen ed, and how bored out of their minds the gifted kids are?

Look, I know these debates never go well, because 90% of the people here have garden variety bright kids who would be well served in gen ed, but no one wants to admit it. Most of us heavily criticizing the program have one of those garden variety bright kids in AAP, and one kid who is just leagues beyond the bright child. My bright child, all of her AAP friends, and many of her AAP classmates would be fine in a strong gen ed program, and they absolutely are slowing things down for kids like my highly gifted child. AAP teachers still have to worry about bringing up the bottom kids, passing SOLs, and all of the other things that divert attention away from the top kids in the class, and the more bright kids they have to deal with, the less attention the gifted kids will receive.

AAP cannot adequately serve the needs of both the highly gifted children and the regular bright kids. There are many more bright kids and many more parents of bright kids, so FCPS has chosen to appease the masses. As a parent with both a bright child and a gifted child in AAP, I'd give up AAP for my bright child in a heartbeat if it meant that my gifted child would have a proper gifted program.


Agree with you.
— Parent of a gifted 3rd grader and a bright 1st grader who will likely get in but I’d trade her admission for a program that could meet my 3rd grader’s needs any day.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 14:57     Subject: Re:AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:My kid is learning math 2 grades above grade level. Seriously how much more advanced do you want them to go?

DH and I are both Ivy League educated. Our kids are surrounded by bright motivated kids with well educated parents. What more do you want?

Will your kid be bored in college?


Which center is teaching math 2 years above grade level? Mine is only teaching one year above grade level.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 14:40     Subject: Re:AAP official percentage of 20.8%
My kid is learning math 2 grades above grade level. Seriously how much more advanced do you want them to go?

DH and I are both Ivy League educated. Our kids are surrounded by bright motivated kids with well educated parents. What more do you want?

Will your kid be bored in college?
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2018 10:11     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Then, by all means, take your 1% special snowflake who needs to be catered to and find a private school that will meet your needs. Of course you'd sacrifice the AAP program to get what you want for your kid - isn't that the NoVA way? Burn it down for others if it gets me one step ahead of them?

FCPS was totally unable to meet the needs of my 2E kid, so we sucked it up and found a school that better met their needs. Is it easy? No. Do I resent paying through the nose for property taxes for one of the "best" school systems only to have it fail my child? A little. But, at the end of the day, we did what was required to meet our special snowflake's need. Give it a whirl. It's more satisfying than handwringing.

Public school is to meet the needs of the masses and not to provide each and every child with their ideal learning environment. Like any mass-produced product, it's going to cater to its largest audience. Rather than bitching about other people's above average kids boring yours to tears, choose to send your child somewhere they won't be bored out of their mind.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2018 12:49     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:

I have read on here and in the past seen a link showing the State of Virginia reviewed and approves FCPS's AAP program as meeting the "Mandate" of the state's gifted education law. So Virginia thinks they're in compliance, but I understand you don't.


Have they observed actual AAP classrooms, witnessed how not-overly-smart many of the kids are, how the curriculum is barely more advanced than gen ed, and how bored out of their minds the gifted kids are?

Look, I know these debates never go well, because 90% of the people here have garden variety bright kids who would be well served in gen ed, but no one wants to admit it. Most of us heavily criticizing the program have one of those garden variety bright kids in AAP, and one kid who is just leagues beyond the bright child. My bright child, all of her AAP friends, and many of her AAP classmates would be fine in a strong gen ed program, and they absolutely are slowing things down for kids like my highly gifted child. AAP teachers still have to worry about bringing up the bottom kids, passing SOLs, and all of the other things that divert attention away from the top kids in the class, and the more bright kids they have to deal with, the less attention the gifted kids will receive.

AAP cannot adequately serve the needs of both the highly gifted children and the regular bright kids. There are many more bright kids and many more parents of bright kids, so FCPS has chosen to appease the masses. As a parent with both a bright child and a gifted child in AAP, I'd give up AAP for my bright child in a heartbeat if it meant that my gifted child would have a proper gifted program.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2018 12:37     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
^ To add:
I wouldn't mind if they had open enrollment and saturated the program with a lot of average kids, providing that the AAP pace remained fast, the curriculum remained robust, and kids who couldn't handle it would be allowed to fail/wash out of the program.

The problem now is that even in AAP, once the kids are assigned to a classroom, most of the teachers will slow down to the pace of the lowest student in the class. Almost nobody at my AAP center drops back to gen ed, since they make a point of coddling even the weakest AAP students there.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2018 12:31     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

There's also been an explosion in ESOL and FARMS kids. I've worked with a lot of AAP kids in math over the last few years, and many of them are above average and very motivated, but nothing special. They're not gifted. They're just regular smart kids.


it's not required to get into AAP. Why keep beating this dead horse?


Many of us have noted that in the past that being gifted was required to get into AAP and think it still should be required. If the program were restricted to gifted kids, it could once again be a rigorous program that actually meets the needs of the kids whom it is mandated to serve. The program has been slowed down so much by all of the above average kids, that it no longer adequately serves the gifted kids.


I have read on here and in the past seen a link showing the State of Virginia reviewed and approves FCPS's AAP program as meeting the "Mandate" of the state's gifted education law. So Virginia thinks they're in compliance, but I understand you don't.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2018 12:25     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

There's also been an explosion in ESOL and FARMS kids. I've worked with a lot of AAP kids in math over the last few years, and many of them are above average and very motivated, but nothing special. They're not gifted. They're just regular smart kids.


it's not required to get into AAP. Why keep beating this dead horse?


Many of us have noted that in the past that being gifted was required to get into AAP and think it still should be required. If the program were restricted to gifted kids, it could once again be a rigorous program that actually meets the needs of the kids whom it is mandated to serve. The program has been slowed down so much by all of the above average kids, that it no longer adequately serves the gifted kids.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2018 12:20     Subject: AAP official percentage of 20.8%
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The bolded part is true - but your definition of "gifted" is different from FCPS's. Read the first paragraph: " : eligible to students " who exhibit exceptional performance capability..." like a CogAt of 130 and GBRS of 11 or 12.


Not really. FCPS still wants to use multiple criteria to establish giftedness, as is considered best practice. They've just had a steadily lowering bar for what is considered "exceptional performance." Fifteen years ago, "exceptional performance" was the one kid in the classroom who was clearly above the rest. Now, "exceptional performance" seems to be any kid who is above grade level. AAP expanded from 5% to 20% over the last 15 years. Kids haven't become that much smarter. The bar has just drastically been lowered.


well I think 17% would be about right. And you may not be taking into account the demographic changes in this area over the last 15 years. There's been an explosion in highly educated parents and their very smart offspring.


There's also been an explosion in ESOL and FARMS kids. I've worked with a lot of AAP kids in math over the last few years, and many of them are above average and very motivated, but nothing special. They're not gifted. They're just regular smart kids.


it's not required to get into AAP. Why keep beating this dead horse?