Anonymous wrote:The white folks are acting like ending access to the best options for any/all of them and shunting them off to the rest of the school system ie roosevelt or Coolidge is intolerable. Remember that that is exactly what the REST of DC lives with.

Yes, changing boundaries for successful schools appears to be basically impossible. Agree that this is a big diversity issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is quite a stretch to say that "white people don't want" integration when Deal and Wilson are the most integrated schools in the city. Clearly, white folks like those schools. But there aren't enough white students left over to meaningfully integrate at many other public schools than those. Basis charter, I guess, but it is pretty well integrated too; Hardy seems to be attracting more white folks recently. Unless everyone's REAL concern is that a small cadre of elementary schools located in Upper Caucasia (where all the white people live) have a majority of white students in those schools. If that's what is troubling you, then your problem is not really policy, but something more fundamental to your world-view.

Well, that is an issue, because the NW schools exist in the same system with 90% at-risk all-black schools doing much more poorly. An at-risk OOB set-aside in the lottery would address some of this, as long as DCPS ALSO invested in increasing capacity at those schools. But, unless the idea is to dissolve ward 7 and 8 schools and bus all those kids to NW, it's hard to see how even an at-risk set aside in the lottery addresses the whole problem. I do think DC has a lot of positive things going for diversity -- just look at the integrated charters, and some DCPS schools. But as we all know, that peters out at MS. Anyone who truly cares about diversity would have to focus on improving the MS and HS pathways for the integrated charters and DCPS schools. But yeah, at the end of the day, diversity can't be the only metric to judge DC schools.

I don't understand just which upper NW schools are troubling you, as there aren't that many of them? Wilson: check, the most integrated in the city. Deal: check, probably the second-most integrated. Hardy: check, increasingly integrated. So, if "that peters out at MS," what OTHER middle schools in upper NW are troubling you? In contrast, I'd say "the white folks" are behaving in a non-racist way. What gives?

Deal and Wilson are only integrated now because of OOB, right? So the issue is the NW elementary schools that have trended to all white, and the loss of OOB spots that will trickle up to Deal and Wilson and reduce diversity there. Also happening on the Hill -- as neighborhoods gentrify and the pipeline of OOB/sibling black students ends, the schools are quickly losing diversity.

You didn't ask the question at all. By implication, I guess your answer is there aren't enough white families in DC to effectively integrate schools outside of the areas that they actually live, and even in those areas the overall numbers of white students are not high. Assuming "integration" remains your goal (and I'd volunteer that "integration" as a goal is actually a red herring if you care about education) -- your solution is...?

Anonymous wrote:I think it is quite a stretch to say that "white people don't want" integration when Deal and Wilson are the most integrated schools in the city. Clearly, white folks like those schools. But there aren't enough white students left over to meaningfully integrate at many other public schools than those. Basis charter, I guess, but it is pretty well integrated too; Hardy seems to be attracting more white folks recently. Unless everyone's REAL concern is that a small cadre of elementary schools located in Upper Caucasia (where all the white people live) have a majority of white students in those schools. If that's what is troubling you, then your problem is not really policy, but something more fundamental to your world-view.

The new racial and economic intergration report that came out yesterday also found that an equal number of white families in Ward 3 are opting out of public schools entirely, as are opting in. For hte purposes of Wilson and its feeders and overcrowding, that's probably a good thing, but it also significantly limits the amount of racial or economic balance we can hope to achieve (just 10% of the entire DC public and charter school student population is white).

The data also showed that in 16-17 Wilson was the most integrated racially, but not an all integrated economically but from the student newspaper and the principal's comments, the number of minority students has dropped significantly in the last 2 years.

The most integrated schools are (in order) below. It seems fair to conclude that housing patterns in DC prevents most DCPS neighborhood schools from being integrated racially unless a school has a history of accepting OOB students (Hyde, Murch, Eaton) or there is some sort of gerrymandering (e.g. the Gold Coast / Bancroft and longer ago having some parts of SW feed Wilson).

Wilson
Yu Ying
Mundo Verde
Basis
Seaton
EW Stokes
DCI
Hearst
EL Haynes Elementary
Breakthrough Montessori
SWW high school
CMI
Washington Latin MS
Hyde Addison
Inspired Teaching
Ross
Shining Stars
Deal
LAMB
Eaton
Cap City Lower
Cap City Middle
Center City Petworth
EL Haynes HS
Barnard
Van Ness
EL Haynes MS
SWW @ FS
Appletree Lincoln Park
Center City Brightwood
Washington Latin HS
Appletree CH
Thomson
LaSalle Backus
Bridges
Garrison
Tubman
West
Hardy
Roosevelt
Cap City HS
Cardozo
Maury
Center City Shaw
Peabody
Ludlow Taylor
Cooke
Two Rivers
Murch
Takoma
Oyster Adams

CHML
Cleveland

The white folks are acting like ending access to the best options for any/all of them and shunting them off to the rest of the school system ie roosevelt or Coolidge is intolerable. Remember that that is exactly what the REST of DC lives with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is quite a stretch to say that "white people don't want" integration when Deal and Wilson are the most integrated schools in the city. Clearly, white folks like those schools. But there aren't enough white students left over to meaningfully integrate at many other public schools than those. Basis charter, I guess, but it is pretty well integrated too; Hardy seems to be attracting more white folks recently. Unless everyone's REAL concern is that a small cadre of elementary schools located in Upper Caucasia (where all the white people live) have a majority of white students in those schools. If that's what is troubling you, then your problem is not really policy, but something more fundamental to your world-view.

Well, that is an issue, because the NW schools exist in the same system with 90% at-risk all-black schools doing much more poorly. An at-risk OOB set-aside in the lottery would address some of this, as long as DCPS ALSO invested in increasing capacity at those schools. But, unless the idea is to dissolve ward 7 and 8 schools and bus all those kids to NW, it's hard to see how even an at-risk set aside in the lottery addresses the whole problem. I do think DC has a lot of positive things going for diversity -- just look at the integrated charters, and some DCPS schools. But as we all know, that peters out at MS. Anyone who truly cares about diversity would have to focus on improving the MS and HS pathways for the integrated charters and DCPS schools. But yeah, at the end of the day, diversity can't be the only metric to judge DC schools.

I don't understand just which upper NW schools are troubling you, as there aren't that many of them? Wilson: check, the most integrated in the city. Deal: check, probably the second-most integrated. Hardy: check, increasingly integrated. So, if "that peters out at MS," what OTHER middle schools in upper NW are troubling you? In contrast, I'd say "the white folks" are behaving in a non-racist way. What gives?

I’ll tell you this based on experience. White in one of the bilingual DCPS. Integration mattered for resources. When my family and ones like mine who were committed specifically to that school came we were able to successfully get DC politicians to listen to leadership and address stuff they had not like building space and maintenance. It was total bullshit but this is how these people respond in real life.

Somebody else can tell the story better but not think DC thinks that parents who struggle in English won’t advocate or get involved. That poor black parents don’t engage. But white parents and parents with high SES get engaged, have time, won’t quit until they get what they want and have a knack for getting people in trouble if they don’t get listened to. I think these are widespread stereotypes and people act on them in DC.

I have met school leaders nearby who are working hard but do not have the community pull from parents who can get levers pulled downtown. And they have had requests for improvements and maintenance or new equipment ignored. Shocking to me but a real lived experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Integration is such a liberal white folks things. Have you actually talked to any black folks almost none actually want it. In fact most people are fine with the current DC education landscape.

The key for schools is always the principal. There are several success stories with public and charters getting real results with at-risk kids. Its time to take some of the assistant principals at these schools and give them their own schools. That's the only change that needs to happen.

In fact, many of the black folks I have talked to about school options have specifically mentioned an integrated school as important to them. And it certainly a focus of black writers/reporters like Nikole Hannah-Jones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/magazine/the-resegregation-of-jefferson-county.html

+1. Black person here (raises hand). I want integrated schools, and know plenty of other black people who agree with me. Why revisit this point? We know from history that predominantly black/brown schools don't get the same resources as white schools (Brown vs. Board, anyone?). Plus, I think there is value in attending school with people from different backgrounds--I wish more on this thread felt that way.

I agree with you on the different background being beneficial thing. In 2018 schools receive equal funding so that's not an issue. With open choice if people want to integrate great if not so be it. I think trying to socially engineer this stuff isn't the way to go.

But people don't understand that the educational performance of black students was trending upwards for a long period after the civil rights movement. Integration did work but then all of that became undone and many of those gains were lost. Lost of research on this. Most black people know, myself included that integration works, but at the end of the day white folks really don't want it. You're kidding yourself if you think schools receive equal funding - they in fact do not especially when you start counting the impact of PTA donations. Definitely not equal.

At some point as well, studying hard and achieving academically was no longer celebrated in strugglijg black neighborhoods, but instead was derided as “acting white.” That epithet didn’t help.

And your speaking from personal experience, or what you've heard?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Integration is such a liberal white folks things. Have you actually talked to any black folks almost none actually want it. In fact most people are fine with the current DC education landscape.

The key for schools is always the principal. There are several success stories with public and charters getting real results with at-risk kids. Its time to take some of the assistant principals at these schools and give them their own schools. That's the only change that needs to happen.

In fact, many of the black folks I have talked to about school options have specifically mentioned an integrated school as important to them. And it certainly a focus of black writers/reporters like Nikole Hannah-Jones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/magazine/the-resegregation-of-jefferson-county.html

+1. Black person here (raises hand). I want integrated schools, and know plenty of other black people who agree with me. Why revisit this point? We know from history that predominantly black/brown schools don't get the same resources as white schools (Brown vs. Board, anyone?). Plus, I think there is value in attending school with people from different backgrounds--I wish more on this thread felt that way.

I agree with you on the different background being beneficial thing. In 2018 schools receive equal funding so that's not an issue. With open choice if people want to integrate great if not so be it. I think trying to socially engineer this stuff isn't the way to go.

But people don't understand that the educational performance of black students was trending upwards for a long period after the civil rights movement. Integration did work but then all of that became undone and many of those gains were lost. Lost of research on this. Most black people know, myself included that integration works, but at the end of the day white folks really don't want it. You're kidding yourself if you think schools receive equal funding - they in fact do not especially when you start counting the impact of PTA donations. Definitely not equal.

Does the research show that losses in performance are due to re-segregation of schools?

Anonymous wrote:I think it is quite a stretch to say that "white people don't want" integration when Deal and Wilson are the most integrated schools in the city. Clearly, white folks like those schools. But there aren't enough white students left over to meaningfully integrate at many other public schools than those. Basis charter, I guess, but it is pretty well integrated too; Hardy seems to be attracting more white folks recently. Unless everyone's REAL concern is that a small cadre of elementary schools located in Upper Caucasia (where all the white people live) have a majority of white students in those schools. If that's what is troubling you, then your problem is not really policy, but something more fundamental to your world-view.

Well, that is an issue, because the NW schools exist in the same system with 90% at-risk all-black schools doing much more poorly. An at-risk OOB set-aside in the lottery would address some of this, as long as DCPS ALSO invested in increasing capacity at those schools. But, unless the idea is to dissolve ward 7 and 8 schools and bus all those kids to NW, it's hard to see how even an at-risk set aside in the lottery addresses the whole problem. I do think DC has a lot of positive things going for diversity -- just look at the integrated charters, and some DCPS schools. But as we all know, that peters out at MS. Anyone who truly cares about diversity would have to focus on improving the MS and HS pathways for the integrated charters and DCPS schools. But yeah, at the end of the day, diversity can't be the only metric to judge DC schools.

I think it is quite a stretch to say that "white people don't want" integration when Deal and Wilson are the most integrated schools in the city. Clearly, white folks like those schools. But there aren't enough white students left over to meaningfully integrate at many other public schools than those. Basis charter, I guess, but it is pretty well integrated too; Hardy seems to be attracting more white folks recently. Unless everyone's REAL concern is that a small cadre of elementary schools located in Upper Caucasia (where all the white people live) have a majority of white students in those schools. If that's what is troubling you, then your problem is not really policy, but something more fundamental to your world-view.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Integration is such a liberal white folks things. Have you actually talked to any black folks almost none actually want it. In fact most people are fine with the current DC education landscape.

The key for schools is always the principal. There are several success stories with public and charters getting real results with at-risk kids. Its time to take some of the assistant principals at these schools and give them their own schools. That's the only change that needs to happen.

In fact, many of the black folks I have talked to about school options have specifically mentioned an integrated school as important to them. And it certainly a focus of black writers/reporters like Nikole Hannah-Jones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/magazine/the-resegregation-of-jefferson-county.html

+1. Black person here (raises hand). I want integrated schools, and know plenty of other black people who agree with me. Why revisit this point? We know from history that predominantly black/brown schools don't get the same resources as white schools (Brown vs. Board, anyone?). Plus, I think there is value in attending school with people from different backgrounds--I wish more on this thread felt that way.

I agree with you on the different background being beneficial thing. In 2018 schools receive equal funding so that's not an issue. With open choice if people want to integrate great if not so be it. I think trying to socially engineer this stuff isn't the way to go.

But people don't understand that the educational performance of black students was trending upwards for a long period after the civil rights movement. Integration did work but then all of that became undone and many of those gains were lost. Lost of research on this. Most black people know, myself included that integration works, but at the end of the day white folks really don't want it. You're kidding yourself if you think schools receive equal funding - they in fact do not especially when you start counting the impact of PTA donations. Definitely not equal.

At some point as well, studying hard and achieving academically was no longer celebrated in strugglijg black neighborhoods, but instead was derided as “acting white.” That epithet didn’t help.

Anonymous wrote:Don’t Title 1 schools receive more funding per pupil than non-Title 1 schools?

Yes from federal funds. The amount isn’t that much more; certainly not enough to adress the challenges they face.

Don’t Title 1 schools receive more funding per pupil than non-Title 1 schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Integration is such a liberal white folks things. Have you actually talked to any black folks almost none actually want it. In fact most people are fine with the current DC education landscape.

The key for schools is always the principal. There are several success stories with public and charters getting real results with at-risk kids. Its time to take some of the assistant principals at these schools and give them their own schools. That's the only change that needs to happen.

In fact, many of the black folks I have talked to about school options have specifically mentioned an integrated school as important to them. And it certainly a focus of black writers/reporters like Nikole Hannah-Jones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/magazine/the-resegregation-of-jefferson-county.html

+1. Black person here (raises hand). I want integrated schools, and know plenty of other black people who agree with me. Why revisit this point? We know from history that predominantly black/brown schools don't get the same resources as white schools (Brown vs. Board, anyone?). Plus, I think there is value in attending school with people from different backgrounds--I wish more on this thread felt that way.

I agree with you on the different background being beneficial thing. In 2018 schools receive equal funding so that's not an issue. With open choice if people want to integrate great if not so be it. I think trying to socially engineer this stuff isn't the way to go.

But people don't understand that the educational performance of black students was trending upwards for a long period after the civil rights movement. Integration did work but then all of that became undone and many of those gains were lost. Lost of research on this. Most black people know, myself included that integration works, but at the end of the day white folks really don't want it. You're kidding yourself if you think schools receive equal funding - they in fact do not especially when you start counting the impact of PTA donations. Definitely not equal.