Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter was invited to something with a friend, and she went. I think it was a movie night. They were not proselytizing....anyway, my DD's Atheism is strong. It seemed to me the purpose was to get the kids together in a save zone and off the phones. Not a bad idea. But, I still worry about the proselytizing.

With that said, if a creepy youth pasture tried to seduce my innocent daughter, she knows to kick him where it hurts.

You are misinterpreting the seduction going on -- it isn't sexual, it is religious. PPs don't mean creepy and predatory in a sexual way. They will prey on your child's insecurities and fears and allow her to let go of those negative feelings while with the feel good group. Not a bad thing. They will not proselytize because they know that doesn't work with teens. It will become her safe and happy place, then eventually she will learn that "Jesus is the way" to this bliss. And, hey, for many it absolutely is, but if you don't want your kid going down that road ....

The atheist may run strong in your kid, but every teen is impressionable and in flux, and parents are no longer their primary guides. Choose who guides them from this point forward with your eyes wide open.

DP. I became involved with Young Life in high school and to this day am so glad I did. I could easily have made some bad choices by hanging around with the wrong crowd, but I found a warm, wholesome group of kids and young leaders where I felt completely myself. Lots of fun activities, no drinking or bad behavior, good messages. I definitely feel they guided me in a healthy direction as opposed to where I might have wound up. My kids have enjoyed YL during their high school years as well, and made some of their best friends there.

Those of you calling it creepy, predatory, or weird seem a bit off. I'd much rather have my kids hanging out with other, like-minded, service-oriented teens than getting wasted at parties every weekend. YMMV.

Why do you assume all agnostic or atheist teens are getting wasted? Too often religion is used to divide people, which is a major problem for me.

I would say the same about you and other PPs assuming kids involved in a Christian youth group are somehow "cultish" or proselytizing. Honestly, only here on DCUM would we have parents worried about something as benign as Young Life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists although I grew up in the Episcopal Church with several that were downright evangelical (yes, back in the 70s, there were such thing as "born again" Episcopalians...weird).

Having gone through my own childhood exposed to all sorts of "harmless" (but not really) youth groups, there is zero way I would let my children attend any religious youth group. There is always a proselytizing goal whether it is explicit or implicit.

The whole point of the program is to introduce kids to Jesus. It’s nothing but proselytizing.

What would you call a Jewish youth group? A Muslim youth group? Hindi?

Hindi is a language. Jews do not proselytize to non-Jews. Islam historically is a proselytizing religion, but that doesn't mean that Muslim youth groups in the US proselytize.

Your issue is clearly with Christianity then. Why don't you just admit it? You don't like the fact that a bunch of kids are getting together, having a great time, and lightly discussing Christianity. Just be honest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weird post.

If you are not Jewish, what is your opinion of Birthright Israel, etc? Does it bother you that one set of American kids get invited to travel to a foreign country based on religion, and yours do not?

I don't believe you understand this thread. The question had to do with repeated invitations to a young girl despite her having told them that she was not a Christian. Ultimately she was isolated by not going. Birthright does not seek others to join. No one is questioning the legitimacy of having Young Life. The post is questioning its evangelical nature.

The girl referenced in the OP was not "isolated" by not attending. How ridiculous. She chose not to go - that was her choice. She was certainly invited. You, and others, are trying to spin this into kids being "ostracized" by declining to participate in YL. So ridiculous. If you had a book club that you repeatedly invited a neighbor to, and she repeatedly declined, would you be "isolating" her by continuing your book club? Of course not. She's welcome to attend, she simply chooses not to.

Honestly, some of you seem to have been brainwashed yourselves. Just because a teen chooses not to join a group (ANY group) doesn't mean s/he will then be ostracized because of it. YL is not some sort of cult, no matter how you try to spin it that way.

If the kid has repeatedly declined, and clearly the reason is clear, and the invites continue with the child finally saying " everyone is going" and therefore wants to go, what is that? You are way off, PP.

So you mean, she wants to do an activity that most or all of her friends are doing? And this activity is wholesome and safe? I'm not sure what your problem is. Are you blaming the other kids for inviting her to come along with them? Or would you prefer they never invite her at all? What is it you want?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter was invited to something with a friend, and she went. I think it was a movie night. They were not proselytizing....anyway, my DD's Atheism is strong. It seemed to me the purpose was to get the kids together in a save zone and off the phones. Not a bad idea. But, I still worry about the proselytizing.

With that said, if a creepy youth pasture tried to seduce my innocent daughter, she knows to kick him where it hurts.

You are misinterpreting the seduction going on -- it isn't sexual, it is religious. PPs don't mean creepy and predatory in a sexual way. They will prey on your child's insecurities and fears and allow her to let go of those negative feelings while with the feel good group. Not a bad thing. They will not proselytize because they know that doesn't work with teens. It will become her safe and happy place, then eventually she will learn that "Jesus is the way" to this bliss. And, hey, for many it absolutely is, but if you don't want your kid going down that road ....

The atheist may run strong in your kid, but every teen is impressionable and in flux, and parents are no longer their primary guides. Choose who guides them from this point forward with your eyes wide open.

DP. I became involved with Young Life in high school and to this day am so glad I did. I could easily have made some bad choices by hanging around with the wrong crowd, but I found a warm, wholesome group of kids and young leaders where I felt completely myself. Lots of fun activities, no drinking or bad behavior, good messages. I definitely feel they guided me in a healthy direction as opposed to where I might have wound up. My kids have enjoyed YL during their high school years as well, and made some of their best friends there.

Those of you calling it creepy, predatory, or weird seem a bit off. I'd much rather have my kids hanging out with other, like-minded, service-oriented teens than getting wasted at parties every weekend. YMMV.

Why do you assume all agnostic or atheist teens are getting wasted? Too often religion is used to divide people, which is a major problem for me.

As someone who participated in multiple church youth groups as a tween/teen, including YL (because I grew up in a small town where there was nothing else to do but drinking parties, IF you got invited to those), I have mixed feelings and would tread carefully. Especially when the parents of the child in question, if they aren't Christian, may not be fully aware of what kind of messaging is going on in those groups. Because make no mistake, there IS messaging -- that's part of the point.

In the most active and evangelical-type group in which I participated, for instance (which did a bunch of YL related things and also participated in True Love Waits), every week there was a Scripture selection that was expounded on by the youth leader -- like a mini sermon, framed as "cool" and "relatable" for teens. There was a heavy emphasis on purity culture, rigid gender roles, girls being responsible for boy's bad (sexual) behavior by how they dressed or flirted, etc. Also, while this wasn't the first or even second or third "sell," there was also pressure (both overt and subtle) to eliminate non-Christian things from your life in order to be a "better" person/Christian -- i.e., listen to only Christian music instead of pop, make more time to study the Bible or do church-centered activities instead of non-church activities, hang out primarily with your Christian friends unless you were trying to bring non-Christian friends into the fold, and wear your Christianity on your sleeve -- sometime literally, with T-shirts, jewelry, bumper stickers, etc.

Many of those messages were not necessarily front-and-center, but they were built up over time and in small ways. They weren't always a blatant part of the fun activities, but they were always there in one way or another. Perhaps some kids could participate and ignore them wholly -- but it is a form of peer pressure and not to be underestimated as an influence, IMO.

There were lots of fun activities and even some travel trips, but not much in the way of, say, volunteer work to actually do good in the world or community. I can't remember any actual service to the community beyond the church, TBH. Most of the "service" activities were doing things that the church needed done, supporting other church events or fundraising for the youth group itself. It was very inward-focused.

Now, because of the messages I heard from my parents -- my mom in particular, who was very practical about things like the likelihood that I would have sex before marriage and it didn't mean I was lesser, sinful or worthless -- I don't think I was substantially harmed by my participation. I do think there was some value in things like Bible study where I learned about varying interpretations and was allowed to question the intent of the writer (this was in a Methodist youth group, not the one mentioned above). I still attend church weekly with my family, although I am very skeptical about many things related to church and religion in general. But personally, some of the messages that evangelical Christianity sends are not ones that I want my children to internalize, and I would want to be damn sure that anything they're hearing in that context, I am balancing out at home very strongly.