Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

You must be part of the "pay to play" lobby

Yes, this has been pointed out several times. Only Barca charges $3k+ for c/d level soccer (any level is the same cost).

The funniest thing is the contradictions in the argument; don't pay the ~$2k for C level teams but spend countless $$ on rec and personal training during the year over the course of several years, which can easily surpass the $2k per year. There's not much cost savings going that route. An argument can be made that it may be more effective for skills training, but it will be necessarily less effective for speed of play/game situation training, which can only happen with competent, skilled competition. So it's a wash, and that is making the assumption that the person paying the $2k isn't doing their own personal skills training in addition to the C level team play, which if they are serious about the sport probably isn't right.

The point is not that one absolutely can't skip travel from U9-U12 and make a U13 team, even an elite team, it's just that it's very, very hard to do it. If it were easy, these ECNL and DA rosters would be filled with rec players who follow this path. They're not. That's where the data comes in, not anecdotes of "I've seen...." and "I know a friends daughter who did..." Just go out and gather the data from the top teams at U13+ to show how many are rec players vs former travel. It isn't that difficult.

The proof is in the pudding. It's a nice idea that someone is trying to promote, but there is no data to back it up.

You bring up an interesting point. Is there actual, true data on the subject? Have clubs collected data of any kind as to where their players come from? Especially on their top teams, like how many came from rec, other clubs, promotion from within the club?

Or are we all just talking based on anecdotal experience?

I’m the PP and my DC is on a DA team and not a single player came from this kind of rec background described by the rec poster. All players are from B or higher travel teams from u9-12. I’m familiar with players and parents in other age groups and don’t know a single player from a rec background as has been painted within this thread. I encourage other DA or ECNL members to share their experience as well.

My DD plays in a DA club where not her team but within the club, I know of 3 players who made it who came from a rec type program.

The contention was that this is common, for rec players to directly make the elite team at u13-15, not to make a travel team at a DA club. All these players started in a rec type program prior to u9.

No moving the goal posts. How many players on ECNL and DA teams are walk ons from pure rec backgrounds. None on any DA or ECNL teams from my DC or the players and families I’m familiar with.

I haven't heard any poster argue that. I've read arguments that it's possible and that there are alternatives. No one has argued that this is common. Most parents who think their kid has even an ounce of talent run to travel programs as soon as possible to make sure their little darlings aren't left behind. And that's true of not only soccer, but every sport I know of.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

You must be part of the "pay to play" lobby

Yes, this has been pointed out several times. Only Barca charges $3k+ for c/d level soccer (any level is the same cost).

The funniest thing is the contradictions in the argument; don't pay the ~$2k for C level teams but spend countless $$ on rec and personal training during the year over the course of several years, which can easily surpass the $2k per year. There's not much cost savings going that route. An argument can be made that it may be more effective for skills training, but it will be necessarily less effective for speed of play/game situation training, which can only happen with competent, skilled competition. So it's a wash, and that is making the assumption that the person paying the $2k isn't doing their own personal skills training in addition to the C level team play, which if they are serious about the sport probably isn't right.

The point is not that one absolutely can't skip travel from U9-U12 and make a U13 team, even an elite team, it's just that it's very, very hard to do it. If it were easy, these ECNL and DA rosters would be filled with rec players who follow this path. They're not. That's where the data comes in, not anecdotes of "I've seen...." and "I know a friends daughter who did..." Just go out and gather the data from the top teams at U13+ to show how many are rec players vs former travel. It isn't that difficult.

The proof is in the pudding. It's a nice idea that someone is trying to promote, but there is no data to back it up.

You bring up an interesting point. Is there actual, true data on the subject? Have clubs collected data of any kind as to where their players come from? Especially on their top teams, like how many came from rec, other clubs, promotion from within the club?

Or are we all just talking based on anecdotal experience?

I’m the PP and my DC is on a DA team and not a single player came from this kind of rec background described by the rec poster. All players are from B or higher travel teams from u9-12. I’m familiar with players and parents in other age groups and don’t know a single player from a rec background as has been painted within this thread. I encourage other DA or ECNL members to share their experience as well.

My DD plays in a DA club where not her team but within the club, I know of 3 players who made it who came from a rec type program.

The contention was that this is common, for rec players to directly make the elite team at u13-15, not to make a travel team at a DA club. All these players started in a rec type program prior to u9.

No moving the goal posts. How many players on ECNL and DA teams are walk ons from pure rec backgrounds. None on any DA or ECNL teams from my DC or the players and families I’m familiar with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

You must be part of the "pay to play" lobby

Yes, this has been pointed out several times. Only Barca charges $3k+ for c/d level soccer (any level is the same cost).

The funniest thing is the contradictions in the argument; don't pay the ~$2k for C level teams but spend countless $$ on rec and personal training during the year over the course of several years, which can easily surpass the $2k per year. There's not much cost savings going that route. An argument can be made that it may be more effective for skills training, but it will be necessarily less effective for speed of play/game situation training, which can only happen with competent, skilled competition. So it's a wash, and that is making the assumption that the person paying the $2k isn't doing their own personal skills training in addition to the C level team play, which if they are serious about the sport probably isn't right.

The point is not that one absolutely can't skip travel from U9-U12 and make a U13 team, even an elite team, it's just that it's very, very hard to do it. If it were easy, these ECNL and DA rosters would be filled with rec players who follow this path. They're not. That's where the data comes in, not anecdotes of "I've seen...." and "I know a friends daughter who did..." Just go out and gather the data from the top teams at U13+ to show how many are rec players vs former travel. It isn't that difficult.

The proof is in the pudding. It's a nice idea that someone is trying to promote, but there is no data to back it up.

You bring up an interesting point. Is there actual, true data on the subject? Have clubs collected data of any kind as to where their players come from? Especially on their top teams, like how many came from rec, other clubs, promotion from within the club?

Or are we all just talking based on anecdotal experience?

I’m the PP and my DC is on a DA team and not a single player came from this kind of rec background described by the rec poster. All players are from B or higher travel teams from u9-12. I’m familiar with players and parents in other age groups and don’t know a single player from a rec background as has been painted within this thread. I encourage other DA or ECNL members to share their experience as well.

My DD plays in a DA club where not her team but within the club, I know of 3 players who made it who came from a rec type program.

Anonymous wrote:It is all about the money. They will lie to you about your child's skills to get into your wallet.

Aye, caramba! DD or DS just doesn’t have what it takes. Better for your mental health to accept it and move on. There’s no conspiracy to keep your superstar rec kid from playing high level soccer. They just aren’t up to that level. This fixation with how the system is stacked against you is very unhealthy.

It is all about the money. They will lie to you about your child's skills to get into your wallet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

You must be part of the "pay to play" lobby

Yes, this has been pointed out several times. Only Barca charges $3k+ for c/d level soccer (any level is the same cost).

The funniest thing is the contradictions in the argument; don't pay the ~$2k for C level teams but spend countless $$ on rec and personal training during the year over the course of several years, which can easily surpass the $2k per year. There's not much cost savings going that route. An argument can be made that it may be more effective for skills training, but it will be necessarily less effective for speed of play/game situation training, which can only happen with competent, skilled competition. So it's a wash, and that is making the assumption that the person paying the $2k isn't doing their own personal skills training in addition to the C level team play, which if they are serious about the sport probably isn't right.

The point is not that one absolutely can't skip travel from U9-U12 and make a U13 team, even an elite team, it's just that it's very, very hard to do it. If it were easy, these ECNL and DA rosters would be filled with rec players who follow this path. They're not. That's where the data comes in, not anecdotes of "I've seen...." and "I know a friends daughter who did..." Just go out and gather the data from the top teams at U13+ to show how many are rec players vs former travel. It isn't that difficult.

The proof is in the pudding. It's a nice idea that someone is trying to promote, but there is no data to back it up.

You bring up an interesting point. Is there actual, true data on the subject? Have clubs collected data of any kind as to where their players come from? Especially on their top teams, like how many came from rec, other clubs, promotion from within the club?

Or are we all just talking based on anecdotal experience?

I’m the PP and my DC is on a DA team and not a single player came from this kind of rec background described by the rec poster. All players are from B or higher travel teams from u9-12. I’m familiar with players and parents in other age groups and don’t know a single player from a rec background as has been painted within this thread. I encourage other DA or ECNL members to share their experience as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

You must be part of the "pay to play" lobby

Yes, this has been pointed out several times. Only Barca charges $3k+ for c/d level soccer (any level is the same cost).

The funniest thing is the contradictions in the argument; don't pay the ~$2k for C level teams but spend countless $$ on rec and personal training during the year over the course of several years, which can easily surpass the $2k per year. There's not much cost savings going that route. An argument can be made that it may be more effective for skills training, but it will be necessarily less effective for speed of play/game situation training, which can only happen with competent, skilled competition. So it's a wash, and that is making the assumption that the person paying the $2k isn't doing their own personal skills training in addition to the C level team play, which if they are serious about the sport probably isn't right.

The point is not that one absolutely can't skip travel from U9-U12 and make a U13 team, even an elite team, it's just that it's very, very hard to do it. If it were easy, these ECNL and DA rosters would be filled with rec players who follow this path. They're not. That's where the data comes in, not anecdotes of "I've seen...." and "I know a friends daughter who did..." Just go out and gather the data from the top teams at U13+ to show how many are rec players vs former travel. It isn't that difficult.

The proof is in the pudding. It's a nice idea that someone is trying to promote, but there is no data to back it up.

You bring up an interesting point. Is there actual, true data on the subject? Have clubs collected data of any kind as to where their players come from? Especially on their top teams, like how many came from rec, other clubs, promotion from within the club?

Or are we all just talking based on anecdotal experience?

Anonymous wrote:Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

You must be part of the "pay to play" lobby

Yes, this has been pointed out several times. Only Barca charges $3k+ for c/d level soccer (any level is the same cost).

The funniest thing is the contradictions in the argument; don't pay the ~$2k for C level teams but spend countless $$ on rec and personal training during the year over the course of several years, which can easily surpass the $2k per year. There's not much cost savings going that route. An argument can be made that it may be more effective for skills training, but it will be necessarily less effective for speed of play/game situation training, which can only happen with competent, skilled competition. So it's a wash, and that is making the assumption that the person paying the $2k isn't doing their own personal skills training in addition to the C level team play, which if they are serious about the sport probably isn't right.

The point is not that one absolutely can't skip travel from U9-U12 and make a U13 team, even an elite team, it's just that it's very, very hard to do it. If it were easy, these ECNL and DA rosters would be filled with rec players who follow this path. They're not. That's where the data comes in, not anecdotes of "I've seen...." and "I know a friends daughter who did..." Just go out and gather the data from the top teams at U13+ to show how many are rec players vs former travel. It isn't that difficult.

The proof is in the pudding. It's a nice idea that someone is trying to promote, but there is no data to back it up.

Why does this joker keep spitting out $3,000 for a C or D level team? C and D level teams aren't $3,000 (maybe except Barca).

Any kids whose parents have deep enough pockets can make travel soccer.

So very different from travel baseball where skill set matters.

You can find a travel team for most kids but you also have to realize that many big programs are fine with creating a travel team so that you can spend $3,000 to the club but you are not paying for the best coach or playing against the best competition. If you are still willing to fork out that $3,000 for the priviledge of being a travel soccer parent, then good for you. But if you are questioning the value of such a plan, then consider some of the alternatives referenced above.

Some of these parents above sound like the NYC parents trying to get their kid into the right pre-school so that they are on the Harvard track. There are absolutely some merit to that argument but it does not mean that if your kid has to do pre-school or any school at all to get into Harvard. There are alternatives folks.

I just watched an episode on HBO's Real Sports on the youth sports industry that has been created over the past 20 years. It is insane to consider the amount of money spent by parents these days. I don't know a family in my neighborhood who spent any where near the amount of money parents spent today on youth sports (considering inflation). There were 15+ kids in my high school who played soccer, basketball, track, gymnastics, baseball, football, etc. Some when on to play professionally. There were travel sports but the cost was nothing like it is today.

Re: elite travel soccer, a kid can show up at u13 - u15 and make an elite team. U13 is ideal but I have seen kids make it at u14/u15. If the above skeptics don't believe my experience, have them ask around.

Anonymous wrote:Not about my kid it is about parents who are looking for alternatives to the travel rat race. I speak to C and D team parents all of the time. I was one once. The point is that there are alternatives.

Please keep posting. Don't let these naysayers shut you down. They have to believe that the money they have spent on their kids since they were 5 and the early jump into travel actually matter.

Yes, alternatives do and should exist.

Not about my kid it is about parents who are looking for alternatives to the travel rat race. I speak to C and D team parents all of the time. I was one once. The point is that there are alternatives.

Anonymous wrote:^^^^ You are speaking like a true moron. If you are paying $3,000 to travel to games 100+ miles away and received coaching from some coach who just started so that he can learn how to coach by coaching your kid, then be my guests. While you are playing glorified classic or pretend travel, I will put my kids in classic with a solid coach and will use the extra time not driving all over the DMV and the cash saved by paying travel fees to enroll in camps or extra trainings.

Sorry but I have seen too many kids show up at u14/u15 tryouts and make the elite team while the C and D kids give up on soccer because they could never develop in a system that cares more about your abikity to play than about your kid's development.

4 of your 5 or 6 points are about you and not your kid, we get it, please stop

^^^^ You are speaking like a true moron. If you are paying $3,000 to travel to games 100+ miles away and received coaching from some coach who just started so that he can learn how to coach by coaching your kid, then be my guests. While you are playing glorified classic or pretend travel, I will put my kids in classic with a solid coach and will use the extra time not driving all over the DMV and the cash saved by paying travel fees to enroll in camps or extra trainings.

Sorry but I have seen too many kids show up at u14/u15 tryouts and make the elite team while the C and D kids give up on soccer because they could never develop in a system that cares more about your abikity to play than about your kid's development.