Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 22:17     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You need to post this in another forum, OP. Really, really rude of you.


+1

+2
Relationships or off-topic.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 21:39     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:You need to post this in another forum, OP. Really, really rude of you.


+1
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 20:29     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
You need to post this in another forum, OP. Really, really rude of you.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 20:18     Subject: Re:How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Op, you are a good friend as long as friendship benefits you and as long as someone's life struggle doesn't affect you. You want feel-good, easy, no strings attached "friendship". That's not friendship. Step away.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 16:53     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:
Please learn reading comprehension. It isn't a blanket comparison, it's about the impact on your stress. And obviously those are general categories (i.e. "infertility," "cancer"), but the point is that if you fear living without what makes your life meaningful but don't have a socially acceptable channel to express that grief and anger, it's hugely isolating -- as stressful and isolating as many other major disease diagnoses.


Totally agree that infertility can be extremely depressing and isolating, especially when you're surrounded by people getting pregnant left and right. I do bristle at the blog post where the gist is "I've been through cancer and infertility, and infertility is worse for x, y and z reasons" when those reasons are based on the fact that it was an easily treatable cancer. I guess the title is just to get your attention, but it seems cheap and insensitive. And my experience with infertility is that when I told people about it, they were as supportive and understanding as I could hope for and definitely didn't try to diminish that. I can't get behind comparisons that suggest that people understand cancer but they don't understand infertility, especially since many people with cancer have to deal with their own fair share of insensitivity and people having no idea how to react.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 16:40     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:This is a tough one. As someone who dealt with infertility the thought of NEVER having a child can really wear on you. Also if she is doing IVF or other treatment the hormones can literally make some people crazy.

That said, you don’t need to take abuse from someone. I would try to be there for her however you can but it’s also fine to put a little distance between you. Maybe texting is easier than going out to eat, or just make yourself available every other month for a couple hours.

FWIW, my mom is a really negative person and complains about everything. Going to any restaurant with her is painful because something, actually many things, are wrong in her opinion. I just suck it up and have an extra glass of wine.


I agree. It’s ok to put some distance between you and a very negative, toxic person, even though she is negative/toxic due to infertility beyond her control. You can be sympathetic to an extent without putting yourself through abuse.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 15:06     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a big believer in that just because someone is going through something extremely difficult or painful, they don't get to be a complete a-hole to me more than twice.

They get when it happens to be a horrible person towards me and let me be supportive and not say a peep. Then they get a second opportunity to let it all out again and after that, I just don't allow myself to be the one upon which they sh!t.


This.
There is NO EXCUSE to continually treat someone like crap, no matter what you are going through. Infirtility is not a pass. Neither is cancer diagnosis, death, PTSD, mental illness...the list goes on.


This, and I did struggle with infertility. There is a difference between allowing someone to be sad and allowing them to be an a* hole.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 14:01     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Insult” you how? If it’s as bad as you say and you aren’t just being sensitive and self centered seems like she doesn’t want you as a friend.


It's hard to tell without more information about what you consider an insult.

Since your friend is in pain -- infertility ranks up there with cancer in terms of how difficult and socially isolating it is, because literally people cannot understand how it feels unless they've been there -- I suggest that you dig deep and try and see if you being more present to her could help. Maybe she is lashing out because she isn't allowed to talk about what she feels, or because it's so painful she can't bear to put it into words. If you could try to see the friend you know and love behind this and tell her, I know this really hurts and sucks and is so unfair. How can I be there? If that doesn't help her see you as on her side, then maybe you need to put a little space. But it honestly is very tough, so just think about the fact that her non-ideal behavior is probably a cry for help. Depends how much you care about her but if she really is such a close friend I think she deserves a little more than this.


BS. Infertility doesn't rank with cancer. Plus, how long has her friend been struggling with infertility? If she just started 2 years ago, well, what does she expect, you defy nature and then you have a right to be mad about it? I don't think so. If she started 10 years ago, she would have accepted it by now. Being rude and nasty is never ok.


Please learn reading comprehension. It isn't a blanket comparison, it's about the impact on your stress. And obviously those are general categories (i.e. "infertility," "cancer"), but the point is that if you fear living without what makes your life meaningful but don't have a socially acceptable channel to express that grief and anger, it's hugely isolating -- as stressful and isolating as many other major disease diagnoses.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 12:55     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
I had to have fertility treatments in order to conceive my first child. I was in a very dark place while we were trying and while we were going through treatment. I was very sad and angry and a lot of my thoughts and feelings were irrational. I journaled a lot about those dark thoughts and the resentment i felt towards the people in my life who decided to get pregnant and voila, babies! I also retreated from my friends a bit and I’m glad they were patient and understanding. However, never would I have expected anyone to tolerate me insulting them, no matter how deeply i was hurting. If she’s truly verbally abusing you, OP, you do not have to take it!
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 12:36     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:I'm a big believer in that just because someone is going through something extremely difficult or painful, they don't get to be a complete a-hole to me more than twice.

They get when it happens to be a horrible person towards me and let me be supportive and not say a peep. Then they get a second opportunity to let it all out again and after that, I just don't allow myself to be the one upon which they sh!t.


This.
There is NO EXCUSE to continually treat someone like crap, no matter what you are going through. Infirtility is not a pass. Neither is cancer diagnosis, death, PTSD, mental illness...the list goes on.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 12:24     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is she really experiencing infertility? She has been married a year and she's 40-- sounds normal to me. Sounds like she may be a major drama queen and she'll be pregnant in months. If you are feeling generous and want to keep the friendship, I'd figure out ways to spend time with her in a space where you can relate. Spa? Shopping? But if she still can't be decent to you, suggest she talk to a therapist and fade on out.


It’s clear some posters on here have never experienced infertility. Not sure why they are commenting.

+1000
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 12:23     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Ask your self this, would she talk like this to her boss?
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 11:22     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That is also BS, what psychological research? Where is data? Anecdotal at best. The other is from PracticalWedding?! is this a joke to you?


NP. This really isn't a debated point anymore. There is plenty of medical literature on infertility causing high levels of depression and anxiety.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8142988

Abstract
To compare the psychological symptoms of infertile women with patients with other chronic medical conditions, subjects completed the Symptom Checklist-90 (Revised) (SCL-90R), a standardized, validated and widely used psychological questionnaire, prior to enrolling in a group behavioral treatment program. All subjects were female and the totals in each program were as follows: 149 with infertility, 136 with chronic pain, 22 undergoing cardiac rehabilitation, 93 with cancer, 77 with hypertension, and 11 with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-positive status. The infertile women had global symptom scores equivalent to the cancer, cardiac rehabilitation and hypertension patients, but lower scores than the chronic pain and HIV-positive patients (p < 0.0001 and p < 0.02 respectively). The anxiety and depression scores of the infertile women were significantly lower than chronic pain patients but not statistically different from the other groups. The results suggest that the psychological symptoms associated with infertility are similar to those associated with other serious medical conditions. Therefore, standard psychosocial interventions for serious medical illness should also be applied in infertility treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6016043/.

a 2004 study 3 utilized a structured psychiatric interview. A total of 122 women were interviewed prior to their first infertility clinic visit and the results were striking; 40% of women were diagnosed as having anxiety, depression, or both. Subsequent research has supported these findings. Volgsten and colleagues4 reported a 31% prevalence of psychiatric symptoms, the most common of which was major depression. In a large Danish study of 42 000 women5 who underwent ART treatment and were screened for depression prior to treatment, 35% screened positive. In another recent study of 174 women undergoing infertility treatment, 39% met the criteria for major depressive disorder.6 In one of the largest studies to date,7 352 women and 274 men were assessed in infertility clinics in northern California. It was determined that 56% of the women and 32% of the men reported significant symptoms of depression and 76% of the women and 61% of the men scored reported significant symptoms of anxiety. Not surprisingly, recent research documents that infertility patients consistently report significantly more symptoms of anxiety and depression than fertile individuals.8 Finally, in a recent concerning study on suicidality in 106 women with infertility, 9.4% of the women reported having suicidal thoughts or attempts.9

Sure depression and anxiety, but comparing it to cancer? A. my basal skin cell carcinoma isn't that big of a deal. My aunts' lung cancer and friend's brain cancer was deadly. Few months. left to live. Fertility is about choices, you need to make a choice based on your diagnosis. To have a kid, try, adopt, etc...Most terminal cancers don't offer you a choice.


I mean, read the abstract to the first article. The point is that the severity of anxiety and depression (the scores) are not statistically different from other "major illnesses." Find the full article if you want to know what kind of "major illness" the researchers were comparing infertility with, but generally I agree with you. My infertility is definitely worse than my squamous cell carcinoma was, but I'd still rather have infertility than incurable brain cancer. I used to work in an HIV clinic and knew many people go through the trauma of first getting diagnosed. I think the shock, fear, and grief is probably pretty similar even if infertility is more of a slow burn that creeps up on you over time.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 10:57     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:Is she really experiencing infertility? She has been married a year and she's 40-- sounds normal to me. Sounds like she may be a major drama queen and she'll be pregnant in months. If you are feeling generous and want to keep the friendship, I'd figure out ways to spend time with her in a space where you can relate. Spa? Shopping? But if she still can't be decent to you, suggest she talk to a therapist and fade on out.


It’s clear some posters on here have never experienced infertility. Not sure why they are commenting.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2018 10:54     Subject: How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?
Anonymous wrote:Is she really experiencing infertility? She has been married a year and she's 40-- sounds normal to me. Sounds like she may be a major drama queen and she'll be pregnant in months. If you are feeling generous and want to keep the friendship, I'd figure out ways to spend time with her in a space where you can relate. Spa? Shopping? But if she still can't be decent to you, suggest she talk to a therapist and fade on out.


I disagree. I was pretty grouchy after six months of nothing while tracking my cycle. Not saying I was going around insulting people, but I wasn't exactly all smiles. A year into TTC I was told I basically have as many eggs left as a 50 year old. That was extremely depressing. I knew there were options (none of which come with guarantees and many of which are very expensive), but there is something about the idea of not being able to conceive a child just threw me. And I was never someone who was super focused on having kids when I was younger.

Even at 40, if they are having intercourse at the right time, not conceiving after a year is not a good sign. They recommend seeking treatment after 6 months at that age. Not saying it's ever justifiable to take your stuff out on other people, but the fact that she's upset is not surprising to me.