Anonymous
10/29/2018 08:29
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Pointless maybe but what a bloodbath. Yeesh.
Anonymous
10/29/2018 08:27
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Probably more impressive to/useful for public flagships. T20 privates don’t think APs = college level work. In some ways and in some fields, they’re actually counter-productive because profs have to break kids of the bad habits AP rewards (eg trite, superficial, formulaic writing).
Get over yourself... how many AP essays have you read?
Lots. I’ve also taught at two t20 privates, was an undergrad at a 3rd, and have a kid at a fourth. So i’ve seen a lot of essays (and understand the grading standards) in that context as well. Also had a side gig teaching AP teachers (some of whom were also AP graders) and have discussed differing expectations between AP vs elite colleges with them.
So the kids in reg English staring at their phones or the ceiling are better prepared than kids taking more rigorous classes? Then tell us why all T20’s value rigor so highly.
What she is saying is that AP’s can be formulaic and superficial. There are private schools that teach non AP classes that actually go more in depth in their classes and some colleges prefer students who have taken those kinds of courses instead.
What an idiotic comment. Colleges look for applicants that have taken the most rigorous coursework available at their own school.
Actually, if you listen closely, what top schools are saying is take the most rigorous courses your school offers iin your area(s) of interest. Not “collect them all.” Not that AP is inherently more rigorous than other options (so yes, take the post AP courses in your field vs more APs in other subjects). Not that your high school is the only place you should look for/can find academic challenge. And certainly not that all APs are created equal. (Usually departments decide what (if anything) any given AP course/score gets you and there’s wide variation, with Calc B/C on the valuable end of the spectrum and history and social science courses on the lower. But it varies by university and it keeps changing.)
To be clear, I’m not saying OP’s kid won’t get into a t20 private school. I’m just saying (a) if s/he does, 17 APs with good scores won’t be why and (b) it’s important for kids at t20 schools to know, as early as possible, both that what gets you a 5 on an AP is not likely to get you an A at t20 school and that what you learn in an AP class is generally not equivalent to what you’re expected to know/be able to do by the end of a similarly named course at your college. So be careful wrt subbing AP for foundation courses in your major or adjacent fields. APs are fine for checking off requirements and giving you breathing space wrt courseload.
Not quite. [b]There are plenty of colleges that expect you to be taking rigorous classes in all subjects[\b] before college. That’s not saying that you need to take 17 AP’s (did this kid sleep? Did he have time for other activities?) but don’t put your eggs all in one basket.
Before a kid decides to do this kind of thing he/she should realize that it might not get him/her into a top university and they should weigh whether it’s worth being stressed all through high school.
“The most rigorous” is different from “rigorous.” So, yes t20s expect math beyond Algebra 2 and four years of a foreign language regardless of what a HS students’ strengths/interests are, but that doesn’t mean you must take Calc BC or AP Latin (if offered) to be a competitive candidate.
Anonymous
10/29/2018 08:22
Subject: Re:Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
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Stanford’s scattergram isn’t the same as emory’s.
Pointless to post it unless you are going to post 30 scatter grams of top schools
Anonymous
10/29/2018 08:20
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If he applies to all top 25 schools, I guarantee he will get into one.
Honestly you never know because there are a lot of rich legacies applying, foreign applicants. etc.
If you look at scatter charts of admits/rejects tons kids with high gpa’s and perfect test scores .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/perfect-act-sat-scores-dont-mean-admission-to-top-universities/amp/
Excerpt:
He earned a 4.43 weighted GPA, he said, a 1550 out of 1600 on his SAT and 34 on his ACT. He took 22 semesters of Advanced Placement coursework and was ranked No. 1 in his class of 536 students. He even had what he thought was an unusual, extraordinary achievement: being the youngest player, by far, on a pro tour of the strategic trading card game “Magic the Gathering.” He was admitted to the University of Michigan, but it’s not his top choice. As he’s coming to terms with his rejections, he’s come up with his own explanation, one shared by many college admissions experts for the top schools.
“I sort of felt like in academics, the courses you take and the grades you earn, there is a level where it stops mattering,” Shumaker said. “If you get perfect grades and near-perfect scores, it just puts you in the pool.”
Did he apply to all top 25 schools or like a bunch of t10’s and then michigan?
In our extended family we had a similar kid who did the above strategy And ended up at Michigan as well.
The last two kids in our extended family - asian girls from ca in the 2016 and 2017 app cycles applied to roughly 25 schools (mostly t25s) and got in the jhu/rice range.
For example I doubt the above kid applied to emory or non-cs cmu.
A lot of apps does increase your chances to get into at least one.
Anonymous
10/29/2018 07:33
Subject: Re:Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous
10/29/2018 07:29
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:If he applies to all top 25 schools, I guarantee he will get into one.
Honestly you never know because there are a lot of rich legacies applying, foreign applicants. etc.
If you look at scatter charts of admits/rejects tons kids with high gpa’s and perfect test scores .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/perfect-act-sat-scores-dont-mean-admission-to-top-universities/amp/
Excerpt:
He earned a 4.43 weighted GPA, he said, a 1550 out of 1600 on his SAT and 34 on his ACT. He took 22 semesters of Advanced Placement coursework and was ranked No. 1 in his class of 536 students. He even had what he thought was an unusual, extraordinary achievement: being the youngest player, by far, on a pro tour of the strategic trading card game “Magic the Gathering.” He was admitted to the University of Michigan, but it’s not his top choice. As he’s coming to terms with his rejections, he’s come up with his own explanation, one shared by many college admissions experts for the top schools.
“I sort of felt like in academics, the courses you take and the grades you earn, there is a level where it stops mattering,” Shumaker said. “If you get perfect grades and near-perfect scores, it just puts you in the pool.”
Anonymous
10/29/2018 07:21
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Probably more impressive to/useful for public flagships. T20 privates don’t think APs = college level work. In some ways and in some fields, they’re actually counter-productive because profs have to break kids of the bad habits AP rewards (eg trite, superficial, formulaic writing).
Get over yourself... how many AP essays have you read?
Lots. I’ve also taught at two t20 privates, was an undergrad at a 3rd, and have a kid at a fourth. So i’ve seen a lot of essays (and understand the grading standards) in that context as well. Also had a side gig teaching AP teachers (some of whom were also AP graders) and have discussed differing expectations between AP vs elite colleges with them.
So the kids in reg English staring at their phones or the ceiling are better prepared than kids taking more rigorous classes? Then tell us why all T20’s value rigor so highly.
What she is saying is that AP’s can be formulaic and superficial. There are private schools that teach non AP classes that actually go more in depth in their classes and some colleges prefer students who have taken those kinds of courses instead.
What an idiotic comment. Colleges look for applicants that have taken the most rigorous coursework available at their own school.
Actually, if you listen closely, what top schools are saying is take the most rigorous courses your school offers [b]in your area(s) of interest. Not “collect them all.” [/b] Not that AP is inherently more rigorous than other options (so yes, take the post AP courses in your field vs more APs in other subjects). Not that your high school is the only place you should look for/can find academic challenge. And certainly not that all APs are created equal. (Usually departments decide what (if anything) any given AP course/score gets you and there’s wide variation, with Calc B/C on the valuable end of the spectrum and history and social science courses on the lower. But it varies by university and it keeps changing.)
To be clear, I’m not saying OP’s kid won’t get into a t20 private school. I’m just saying (a) if s/he does, 17 APs with good scores won’t be why and (b) it’s important for kids at t20 schools to know, as early as possible, both that what gets you a 5 on an AP is not likely to get you an A at t20 school and that what you learn in an AP class is generally not equivalent to what you’re expected to know/be able to do by the end of a similarly named course at your college. So be careful wrt subbing AP for foundation courses in your major or adjacent fields. APs are fine for checking off requirements and giving you breathing space wrt courseload.
Not quite. There are plenty of colleges that expect you to be taking rigorous classes in all subjects before college. That’s not saying that you need to take 17 AP’s (did this kid sleep? Did he have time for other activities?) but don’t put your eggs all in one basket.
Before a kid decides to do this kind of thing he/she should realize that it might not get him/her into a top university and they should weigh whether it’s worth being stressed all through high school.
Anonymous
10/29/2018 07:15
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
If he applies to all top 25 schools, I guarantee he will get into one.
Anonymous
10/29/2018 07:13
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Probably more impressive to/useful for public flagships. T20 privates don’t think APs = college level work. In some ways and in some fields, they’re actually counter-productive because profs have to break kids of the bad habits AP rewards (eg trite, superficial, formulaic writing).
Get over yourself... how many AP essays have you read?
Lots. I’ve also taught at two t20 privates, was an undergrad at a 3rd, and have a kid at a fourth. So i’ve seen a lot of essays (and understand the grading standards) in that context as well. Also had a side gig teaching AP teachers (some of whom were also AP graders) and have discussed differing expectations between AP vs elite colleges with them.
So the kids in reg English staring at their phones or the ceiling are better prepared than kids taking more rigorous classes? Then tell us why all T20’s value rigor so highly.
What she is saying is that AP’s can be formulaic and superficial. There are private schools that teach non AP classes that actually go more in depth in their classes and some colleges prefer students who have taken those kinds of courses instead.
What an idiotic comment. Colleges look for applicants that have taken the most rigorous coursework available at their own school.
Yes. Some private high schools offer very few AP classes but students from those schools get into top schools at very high rates. I wonder why that is?
Anonymous
10/29/2018 07:12
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Probably more impressive to/useful for public flagships. T20 privates don’t think APs = college level work. In some ways and in some fields, they’re actually counter-productive because profs have to break kids of the bad habits AP rewards (eg trite, superficial, formulaic writing).
Get over yourself... how many AP essays have you read?
Lots. I’ve also taught at two t20 privates, was an undergrad at a 3rd, and have a kid at a fourth. So i’ve seen a lot of essays (and understand the grading standards) in that context as well. Also had a side gig teaching AP teachers (some of whom were also AP graders) and have discussed differing expectations between AP vs elite colleges with them.
So the kids in reg English staring at their phones or the ceiling are better prepared than kids taking more rigorous classes? Then tell us why all T20’s value rigor so highly.
What she is saying is that AP’s can be formulaic and superficial. There are private schools that teach non AP classes that actually go more in depth in their classes and some colleges prefer students who have taken those kinds of courses instead.
What an idiotic comment. Colleges look for applicants that have taken the most rigorous coursework available at their own school.
Yes. Some private high schools offer very few AP classes but students who those schools get into top schools at very high rates. I wonder why that is?
Anonymous
10/29/2018 06:39
Subject: Re:Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Well here's the thing. My son only took 6 APs throughout high school and is considered very competitive for the top 20 school to which he is applying (he is only applying to 1 top 20). It all depends on what high school you are coming out of. Public school with these stats, he wouldn't have a chance. It all depends on what your school offers. Public school kids are at a disadvantage because the bar is set so high. No wonder kids are so stressed out.
Anonymous
10/28/2018 22:30
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Don't listen to the jealous people who say this isny a big deal. It is impressive. Here are the stats from the college board.
Approximately 61% of the students took AP Exams in more than one year. The figures below show the cumulative number of exams individual students took from the years from 2014 to 2017. In 2017, 1,086,500 students had three or more AP Exams on their records.
By 2017, 33,144 students had taken 9 AP Exams,
21,159 had 10 exams,
13,185 had 11 exams,
7,921 had 12 exams,
4,717 had 13 exams,
2,642 had 14 exams,
1,409 had 15 exams,
771 had 16 exams,
441 had 17 exams,
216 had 18 exams,
112 had 19exams,
47 had 20 exams
10 had 22 exams,
4 had 23 exams,
3 had 24 exams,
2 had 25 exams,
1 had 27 exams, and
1 student had 30 exams.
Approximately 61% of the students took AP Exams in more than one year. The figures below show the cumulative number of exams individual students took from the years from 2014 to 2017. In 2017, 1,086,500 students had three or more AP Exams on their records.
By 2017, 33,144 students had taken 9 AP Exams,
21,159 had 10 exams,
13,185 had 11 exams,
7,921 had 12 exams,
4,717 had 13 exams,
2,642 had 14 exams,
1,409 had 15 exams,
771 had 16 exams,
441 had 17 exams,
216 had 18 exams,
112 had 19exams,
47 had 20 exams
10 had 22 exams,
4 had 23 exams,
3 had 24 exams,
2 had 25 exams,
1 had 27 exams, and
1 student had 30 exams.
Anonymous
10/28/2018 11:01
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Oh and FWIW, the reason I’m distinguishing between t20 privates and public flagships is that the former have more resources to devote to admissions, have significantly smaller entering classes, and are geared to deal with a comparatively narrow range of student abilities/preparation.
By contrast, GPA and scores are a better predictor of flagship admissions. And flagship schools are more likely to have introductory survey courses pitched at a level similar to AP. Flagships, both of necessity and by design, do more of their sorting post-admissions.
There are equally brilliant kids who are getting great educations at both types of schools.
By contrast, GPA and scores are a better predictor of flagship admissions. And flagship schools are more likely to have introductory survey courses pitched at a level similar to AP. Flagships, both of necessity and by design, do more of their sorting post-admissions.
There are equally brilliant kids who are getting great educations at both types of schools.
Anonymous
10/28/2018 10:49
Subject: Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Probably more impressive to/useful for public flagships. T20 privates don’t think APs = college level work. In some ways and in some fields, they’re actually counter-productive because profs have to break kids of the bad habits AP rewards (eg trite, superficial, formulaic writing).
Get over yourself... how many AP essays have you read?
Lots. I’ve also taught at two t20 privates, was an undergrad at a 3rd, and have a kid at a fourth. So i’ve seen a lot of essays (and understand the grading standards) in that context as well. Also had a side gig teaching AP teachers (some of whom were also AP graders) and have discussed differing expectations between AP vs elite colleges with them.
So the kids in reg English staring at their phones or the ceiling are better prepared than kids taking more rigorous classes? Then tell us why all T20’s value rigor so highly.
What she is saying is that AP’s can be formulaic and superficial. There are private schools that teach non AP classes that actually go more in depth in their classes and some colleges prefer students who have taken those kinds of courses instead.
What an idiotic comment. Colleges look for applicants that have taken the most rigorous coursework available at their own school.
Actually, if you listen closely, what top schools are saying is take the most rigorous courses your school offers in your area(s) of interest. Not “collect them all.” Not that AP is inherently more rigorous than other options (so yes, take the post AP courses in your field vs more APs in other subjects). Not that your high school is the only place you should look for/can find academic challenge. And certainly not that all APs are created equal. (Usually departments decide what (if anything) any given AP course/score gets you and there’s wide variation, with Calc B/C on the valuable end of the spectrum and history and social science courses on the lower. But it varies by university and it keeps changing.)
To be clear, I’m not saying OP’s kid won’t get into a t20 private school. I’m just saying (a) if s/he does, 17 APs with good scores won’t be why and (b) it’s important for kids at t20 schools to know, as early as possible, both that what gets you a 5 on an AP is not likely to get you an A at t20 school and that what you learn in an AP class is generally not equivalent to what you’re expected to know/be able to do by the end of a similarly named course at your college. So be careful wrt subbing AP for foundation courses in your major or adjacent fields. APs are fine for checking off requirements and giving you breathing space wrt courseload.
Anonymous
10/28/2018 09:41
Subject: Re:Is National AP Scholar impressive for top 20 schools? DS will have taken 17 APs by graduation
Anonymous wrote:I know people who are in Harvard and they took 17 APS and were a National AP Scholar. Congratulations to your son because this is not an easy feat and shows his academic ability. It is not something that colleges expect students to achieve but will certainly look at with favor if this is in the student's resume. Please do not crowdsource from people whose kids will never be in a situation to achieve this milestone or apply to highly selective colleges.
This is a very impressive achievement. If he is solid with GPA, SAT scores, essays, recommendations, and EC, this will absolutely be a very big "YES" from the colleges. Contrary to what people would like you to believe, colleges are primarily looking for strong academic candidates who can take on the rigor of the college and finish it in a timely manner.
most colleges, yes. top tier colleges, no.