Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

I disagree. The men’s team has not been able to effectively replace Tim Howard at GK, he has left a big hole. At the same time, they have the next modern 10 in Pulisic who is considered their top prospect and is breaking records in the Bundesliga.

On the USWNT, Julie Ertz transitioned from back to the 10 last year rather well, good enough to win Soccer Player of the Year that same year. Crystal Dunn transitioned from MF to to Left OB successfully as well. The team has still not found a GK the caliber of Solo since her departure in 2015.

US Soccer probably didn't do a good job of grooming replacements. That doesn't mean they aren't replaceable, but they were there for so long, they became iconic. I do think it is a tougher spot to fill than midfielder or winger, but if anything stands out from many of the less dominant countries in the world cup, it is often the strength of their goalies. The US is no exception.

However, you make a good point at how easily we can come up with midfielders.

It’s not like US Soccer decided they would have competition at every position except GK. Not year after year. FIFA rules require you to roster 3 GKs for every match so there were options but the backups were never close. The issue was that their skill sets were so rare that nobody else played as well as them - for a decade. US Soccer still cannot replace them and they have had years to do so without them. And of course no other player on the team can transition to GK unlike the other positions, that is not even a consideration. Those two have not been replaceable, not until the next great ones come along. Great GKs are the hardest position to find, and you can’t create one overnight.

Need a left outside back? Crystal Dunn proves you can create one.

Name the last great left back that played for the USMNT. For goalkeepers, there were plenty pretty decent goalkeepers: Keller, Howard, Friedel, Meola, etc.

That's totally fair. I just see a lot of: name your club, which team, which kid, seeking identifiers as a bully tactic to silence people. They know in many cases we can't say who we are in the context of the discussion. Like if I'm talking about a problem in my club, I can't say which team or coach or name myself for all the reasons you clearly already understand.

Glad we are on the same page.

^ Continuing the above post. I do agree that it is hard to transition someone to F. It tends to be you either have a nose for the net or you don't. The speed required, ability to one touch at the net and play with your back to the net is tough to find in other players. I would say F is the rarest field player. A little easier than GK to find, perhaps because you can have a young phenom step in like Pugh whereas GK takes more refinement and longer to develop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

I disagree. The men’s team has not been able to effectively replace Tim Howard at GK, he has left a big hole. At the same time, they have the next modern 10 in Pulisic who is considered their top prospect and is breaking records in the Bundesliga.

On the USWNT, Julie Ertz transitioned from back to the 10 last year rather well, good enough to win Soccer Player of the Year that same year. Crystal Dunn transitioned from MF to to Left OB successfully as well. The team has still not found a GK the caliber of Solo since her departure in 2015.

US Soccer probably didn't do a good job of grooming replacements. That doesn't mean they aren't replaceable, but they were there for so long, they became iconic. I do think it is a tougher spot to fill than midfielder or winger, but if anything stands out from many of the less dominant countries in the world cup, it is often the strength of their goalies. The US is no exception.

However, you make a good point at how easily we can come up with midfielders.

It’s not like US Soccer decided they would have competition at every position except GK. Not year after year. FIFA rules require you to roster 3 GKs for every match so there were options but the backups were never close. The issue was that their skill sets were so rare that nobody else played as well as them - for a decade. US Soccer still cannot replace them and they have had years to do so without them. And of course no other player on the team can transition to GK unlike the other positions, that is not even a consideration. Those two have not been replaceable, not until the next great ones come along. Great GKs are the hardest position to find, and you can’t create one overnight.

Need a left outside back? Crystal Dunn proves you can create one.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't find a copy of the Madison roster but I believe they had 3 D1 commits and 2 D3 commits. Of the 3 D1 commits, only one is going to a good soccer program (a very good soccer program). Of the D3 commits, one of them might have gone to a good D1 program but she went for academics. So, saying "many" are high-level players who have signed for D1 schools is another RSD exaggeration. Also, most of the players on that squad do not play for high level travel teams, just the few on the McLean 01 team and the VYS 99 team.

What these facts show is that it doesn't take much talent for a HS team to be successful. You just need three or four talented field players and a somewhat competent goalie, and you can prettily easily win your district and have a solid chance to qualify for the state playoffs.

But make no mistake, it is not high level soccer, nor can it be when the vast majority of the players on a team are not high level players, and don't have the time to develop as a team.

Hi! What's your name?

You may recall from earlier in the thread that my post was relevant to the thread title because Madison did *not* have a "somewhat competent goalie" until it brought in a volleyball player. (This was two years ago, I think. Can't speak to last year.)

The last sentence about not having time to develop as a team may have some truth to it, but it's more relevant to one of the high school threads.

Happy to discuss further when you identify yourself.

I'm not the OP on any of this. I think if the points have objective value, then that is by what merit a post should be judged. That you choose to identify yourself is fine. 1 or 2 others have as well, but 99% of the posters are anonymous. That's the forum you are on, and that's how it functions. There are good things about that and bad ones. The good thing is that some people may want to be able to talk about something without fearing repercussions. Like if I want to know about a "rival" club, I can ask without impunity or it getting back to my club. And yes, these clubs can be vindictive if they find out. The bad is that you can't track who is saying what. However, even with usernames, there is some level of anonymity. I can make up any username I want and who would know?

I'm asking you to respect that as the environment here. I personally appreciate the anonymity because I want to be able to have a dialogue and talk about what is truly on my mind and this allows me to do that. In this age of internet, what we post never goes away. As I've grown, I've changed my mind about things. Like when the DA first came out years ago, I was absolutely against it. Then I had to change my mind when I saw the benefits of a year long program over 4 months + school ball (personal opinion, not trying to discuss that per se). But someone could find a 10 year old post and say but, but, but. Everyone's a lawyer, and some of these discussion forums get very nasty and hostile.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

I disagree. The men’s team has not been able to effectively replace Tim Howard at GK, he has left a big hole. At the same time, they have the next modern 10 in Pulisic who is considered their top prospect and is breaking records in the Bundesliga.

On the USWNT, Julie Ertz transitioned from back to the 10 last year rather well, good enough to win Soccer Player of the Year that same year. Crystal Dunn transitioned from MF to to Left OB successfully as well. The team has still not found a GK the caliber of Solo since her departure in 2015.

US Soccer probably didn't do a good job of grooming replacements. That doesn't mean they aren't replaceable, but they were there for so long, they became iconic. I do think it is a tougher spot to fill than midfielder or winger, but if anything stands out from many of the less dominant countries in the world cup, it is often the strength of their goalies. The US is no exception.

However, you make a good point at how easily we can come up with midfielders.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

If Pulisic, Lloyd, Rapinoe and others are any indication, I'd say as is typical, we have midfield options. I agree with you on outside back though, especially left back for sure, but in reality on both sides of the field.

I agree on the goalkeeper being normally a strength, as Howard and Solo would be great examples of. It's true it can be a gap on a team and when it is, it's glaring. But it's not typically a gap on higher level teams at least. There are exceptional goalies and good ones, but most teams have someone who can do it.

Some midfielders and wingers can transition to forward, but often, it's a special skill set and mindset. The players that have it score a lot, and those that don't seem so close game after game, but just don't find the net a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

I disagree. The men’s team has not been able to effectively replace Tim Howard at GK, he has left a big hole. At the same time, they have the next modern 10 in Pulisic who is considered their top prospect and is breaking records in the Bundesliga.

On the USWNT, Julie Ertz transitioned from back to the 10 last year rather well, good enough to win Soccer Player of the Year that same year. Crystal Dunn transitioned from MF to to Left OB successfully as well. The team has still not found a GK the caliber of Solo since her departure in 2015.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

That is because we typically suck so bad that our GK's get lots of practice.

Anonymous wrote:The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

If you look at the USMNT, there are two positions that we traditionally struggle to fill: left back and no.10 playmaker. Goalkeeper is normally a strength.

The hardest to find is GK. This does not make them more valuable than MF or OB, just harder to find. The reason is that good field players are flexible and it is easier to transition a strong holding MF to play defense. F is a hard to find skill but attacking midfielders and wingers can sometimes transition to F. Almost nobody else on the team can play GK effectively besides the GK. It’s just the most specialized skill set which makes it harder to find. This increases as teams get older.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So have we pretty much agreed that a lot of coaches are desperately seeking defenders but that *good* coaches are also seeking skilled game-changers in midfield?

Good coaches seek a skilled player in every single position. Any weak spot is exploitable by the other team.

The question of the thread - I believe - is what position is typically lacking. So all 11 matter. If you have a great midfield and your defense sucsk, you lose. If you have a great defense and everything else sucks, your best hope is 0-0.

But what positions are coaches struggling with? The most reasonable based on reality is gk, outside back and forward, because they either have fewer people wanting to do them (the 1st 2) oe few players actually capable (the last one).

Every single team I know of at multiple levels and genders has midfielders galore. And some actually have to be moved elsewhere. Wingers too. That's also a commonly sought after position.