Anonymous wrote:Do you realize that USSF has only 1 full time scout for all age groups? The scouting is virtually non-existent. The call ups are not based on meaningful scouting and evaluation, but are designed to send one message to US based players: you must play for DA to be considered and even then, you are a long shot unless you play for MLS DA. Take a look at the announcements from USSF, they emphasize how many players come from DAs. As for the results, the talent gap should be too large, if the players were properly identified. A team with 4 youth national team players should be crushing teams, which do not have players of similar caliber. However, VDA scored 4 goals against this "uber talented" DCU team and beat it. Bethesda, which also did not get any call ups, held them to 1 goal.

So we agree that it was complete BS to say that a kid at an MLS DA, who was playing up a year, never would have even gotten a look from US Soccer if he hadn't gone overseas.

As for "US Soccer only has 1 full time scout", the source for that was Thomas Rongen, a man whose integrity (Jonathan Gonzalez) ranks right up there with his intelligence (Messi has a low soccer IQ). Here's the official version from US Soccer: https://www.ussoccer.com/talent-identification-scouting. The way I interpret it there's a full time talent ID staff of around 10, and a network of around 200+ scouts. It's also probably fair to say that they rely to a large extent on the ability of the DA clubs to scout and recruit the best talent from their local communities.

Is it a good system? Hell no. As RSD said, we're terrible at this. In my opinion there's no way we'll ever come close to our potential as a soccer nation until we have a system of independent clubs competing in an open market, promoted and relegated based on sporting merit, rewarded for player development through transfer fees, training compensation, and solidarity payments. That type of competition is what drives real meaningful scouting across the world - starting at very young ages but continuing all the way through the development process - because no club wants to miss a talented player that their rival then finds and capitalizes on.

I just don't think pushing BS narratives with no regard for actual facts is the way to get us there.

Do you realize that USSF has only 1 full time scout for all age groups? The scouting is virtually non-existent. The call ups are not based on meaningful scouting and evaluation, but are designed to send one message to US based players: you must play for DA to be considered and even then, you are a long shot unless you play for MLS DA. Take a look at the announcements from USSF, they emphasize how many players come from DAs. As for the results, the talent gap should be too large, if the players were properly identified. A team with 4 youth national team players should be crushing teams, which do not have players of similar caliber. However, VDA scored 4 goals against this "uber talented" DCU team and beat it. Bethesda, which also did not get any call ups, held them to 1 goal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:It happens, yes.

Just not to the extent that we think.

And the countries we admire most, Germany and Iceland, are still casting a very wide net up to age 12 and even into the teens. It's not "pro academy at U9 or bust."

See another piece from These Football Times, which talks about Icelandic players having opportunities to walk into their local clubs, get good coaching and even have the opportunity to go on to big-time pro soccer.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/01/15/the-icelandic-roadmap-to-success/

Here's a summary on Germany and how the federation makes an effort to find kids in the 10-14 years who aren't at the Bayern Munichs and Dortmunds: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/05/germany-football-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014

Starting the scouting process at a young age and casting a wide net for as long as possible are not mutually exclusive. It is not "pro academy at U9 or bust" anywhere that is serious about finding and developing the best footballers. Everyone recognizes that development is uneven, kids who were nothing special at 8 may blossom by age 15, and the opposite happens as well. For that reason, the scouting process is never ending. Every year at pro academies, players are let go to make room for others who will take their place. Clubs are constantly on the lookout for players who may - for a variety of reasons - have fallen through the cracks up to that point.

The recent experience of local player Aethan Yohanes is a good example of this. According to his dad's twitter feed, hs family moved to the Netherlands a year or two ago and he initially signed on with an amateur club. After a while his talent was recognized - I think he got selected to a regional team or something, kind of sounded like ODP - and now he's at 1st division AZ Alkmar, and was recently called up to the US U15 NT camp. I don't think he was a late developer, but the point is that professional clubs do keep scouting and looking for new players even from amateur clubs well into their teenage years.

By comparison, how many MLS scouts do you think were watching the last round of ODP regional events, looking for those diamonds in the rough?

Aethan Yohanes was getting zero attention from USSF/youth national team, when he played locally for JOGA. He was not scouted. He was not known. He would not have been considered to be good enough. But for the move to the Netherlands, and getting spotted by AZ, he would still be one of the many kids who would have fallen through the cracks without ever getting a look.

That is complete BS. Typical Joga propaganda.

Facts: He is an 04, who only played for FPYC under the Joga coach for one year, 2014-15, when Joga was just doing all-star tournament teams with kids from various different clubs.

It's true he was not scouted by US Soccer back then. Probably because he was 11.

When Joga left FPYC and went out it's own in 2015-16, his dad was smart enough not to follow. He went to LMVSC for a year instead, under coach Pepe, who manages to be really good at developing players without constant BS self-promotion on twitter. Meanwhile, the Joga teams got relegated from 1st to 2nd division EDP, and folded the next year when their players all left to join better clubs. Further proof of the benefits of a pro/rel system.

Anyway, by 2016-17 Aethan was with DC United (but wait, our system doesn't find kids like this!). As an 04 he played up a year, with the 03s. He was definitely known.

So far, no less than 4 players on DCUs 04 team have been called into USYNT camps. But sure. keep pushing the narrative that if Aethan had stayed on that team he would have "fallen through the cracks without even getting a look." Don't let the facts get in your way.

You are so preoccupied with local soccer politics that you've completely missed the point. This is not about JOGA. Yohannes was not called up when he played for ANY of the clubs you've mentioned (FPYC, JOGA, LMVSC, DCU). And since you've suggested that DCU had 4 players called up to the national team camp from their 04 team, that 04 team lost to VDA 3-4, tied NE Revolution 1-1 and beat Bethesda 1-0. With such a high number of youth national team players on this 04 team, one would expect much stronger performance, particularly against local DA clubs.

The post I was responding too noted that he wasn't called up when he played for Joga, and then made the claim that he never would have been called to the USYNT camp if he hadn't left the US and gone to Holland. In fact, according to the poster, he "wouldn't have even gotten a look."

As I pointed out, he was 11 when he last played for Joga. So complaining that he wasn't called for the U14 USYNT back then is just plain stupid. The fact is that he was called up in the first year he was actually eligible to be called up. Were there any 04s called upto USYNT camps with the 03s list year? Probably not many.

The fact that 4 of the current DCU 04s have been involved with USYNT camps disproves the claim of the original post, that if he had stayed stateside he wouldn't have even gotten a look. The truth is that all DA players have an opportunity to "get a look" by USSF, because their is a scout sitting at midfieldof every game during the showcases.

Keep talking about results at U15 though. Which one of us is missing the point?

There ARE huge problems with USYNT scouting, and many talented players DO fall through the cracks. This was just a bad example to use to try to make that point. Mildfielders with great feet on DA teams who also happen to already be 5'10" 145 lbs at 14 years old are not the ones getting overlooked. With the same talent level, but if he was a late bloomer physically and still at LMVSV, then it would be a totally different story. No chance he would have been called up. If he was a late bloomer though, I'm not sure he'd be at AZ Alkmar either. Not saying he's not a great player, but when you are physically advantaged relative to you're peers it makes it a lot easier to stand out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:It happens, yes.

Just not to the extent that we think.

And the countries we admire most, Germany and Iceland, are still casting a very wide net up to age 12 and even into the teens. It's not "pro academy at U9 or bust."

See another piece from These Football Times, which talks about Icelandic players having opportunities to walk into their local clubs, get good coaching and even have the opportunity to go on to big-time pro soccer.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/01/15/the-icelandic-roadmap-to-success/

Here's a summary on Germany and how the federation makes an effort to find kids in the 10-14 years who aren't at the Bayern Munichs and Dortmunds: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/05/germany-football-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014

Starting the scouting process at a young age and casting a wide net for as long as possible are not mutually exclusive. It is not "pro academy at U9 or bust" anywhere that is serious about finding and developing the best footballers. Everyone recognizes that development is uneven, kids who were nothing special at 8 may blossom by age 15, and the opposite happens as well. For that reason, the scouting process is never ending. Every year at pro academies, players are let go to make room for others who will take their place. Clubs are constantly on the lookout for players who may - for a variety of reasons - have fallen through the cracks up to that point.

The recent experience of local player Aethan Yohanes is a good example of this. According to his dad's twitter feed, hs family moved to the Netherlands a year or two ago and he initially signed on with an amateur club. After a while his talent was recognized - I think he got selected to a regional team or something, kind of sounded like ODP - and now he's at 1st division AZ Alkmar, and was recently called up to the US U15 NT camp. I don't think he was a late developer, but the point is that professional clubs do keep scouting and looking for new players even from amateur clubs well into their teenage years.

By comparison, how many MLS scouts do you think were watching the last round of ODP regional events, looking for those diamonds in the rough?

Aethan Yohanes was getting zero attention from USSF/youth national team, when he played locally for JOGA. He was not scouted. He was not known. He would not have been considered to be good enough. But for the move to the Netherlands, and getting spotted by AZ, he would still be one of the many kids who would have fallen through the cracks without ever getting a look.

That is complete BS. Typical Joga propaganda.

Facts: He is an 04, who only played for FPYC under the Joga coach for one year, 2014-15, when Joga was just doing all-star tournament teams with kids from various different clubs.

It's true he was not scouted by US Soccer back then. Probably because he was 11.

When Joga left FPYC and went out it's own in 2015-16, his dad was smart enough not to follow. He went to LMVSC for a year instead, under coach Pepe, who manages to be really good at developing players without constant BS self-promotion on twitter. Meanwhile, the Joga teams got relegated from 1st to 2nd division EDP, and folded the next year when their players all left to join better clubs. Further proof of the benefits of a pro/rel system.

Anyway, by 2016-17 Aethan was with DC United (but wait, our system doesn't find kids like this!). As an 04 he played up a year, with the 03s. He was definitely known.

So far, no less than 4 players on DCUs 04 team have been called into USYNT camps. But sure. keep pushing the narrative that if Aethan had stayed on that team he would have "fallen through the cracks without even getting a look." Don't let the facts get in your way.

You are so preoccupied with local soccer politics that you've completely missed the point. This is not about JOGA. Yohannes was not called up when he played for ANY of the clubs you've mentioned (FPYC, JOGA, LMVSC, DCU). And since you've suggested that DCU had 4 players called up to the national team camp from their 04 team, that 04 team lost to VDA 3-4, tied NE Revolution 1-1 and beat Bethesda 1-0. With such a high number of youth national team players on this 04 team, one would expect much stronger performance, particularly against local DA clubs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only a player can make the ultimate decision to stop being a hog. Then again, there’s certain players that have a skill set which lends itself to being allowed to put the team on their backs. We need more creativity, not less. The ability to beat someone 1v1 is invaluable.

There’s a player on our team that her parents give her $10 each time she scores a goal. Hence, she’s a complete ball hog and wouldn’t pass even when her teammates are wide open to score. So some ball hoggers are created and not born.

You know it’s still on the coach to reward appropriate behavior. If a coach doesnt see this as a problem or issue to addresss then perhaps you shouldnt either. If you find that culture of parent and coach detrimental to your childs success in development or fun, time to leave that team.

It’s all about individual players at the younger age, you dont want to coach the competitiveness or aggressiveness out of them. They need to be focused on their own ability, not their teams ability to win.

If there are other issues at play, like 15-0, or other soccer iq skills to try to develop then looking for goal is the first thought. If it is really bad fit with this player, and the coach apppears to love it, again look somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:It happens, yes.

Just not to the extent that we think.

And the countries we admire most, Germany and Iceland, are still casting a very wide net up to age 12 and even into the teens. It's not "pro academy at U9 or bust."

See another piece from These Football Times, which talks about Icelandic players having opportunities to walk into their local clubs, get good coaching and even have the opportunity to go on to big-time pro soccer.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/01/15/the-icelandic-roadmap-to-success/

Here's a summary on Germany and how the federation makes an effort to find kids in the 10-14 years who aren't at the Bayern Munichs and Dortmunds: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/05/germany-football-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014

Starting the scouting process at a young age and casting a wide net for as long as possible are not mutually exclusive. It is not "pro academy at U9 or bust" anywhere that is serious about finding and developing the best footballers. Everyone recognizes that development is uneven, kids who were nothing special at 8 may blossom by age 15, and the opposite happens as well. For that reason, the scouting process is never ending. Every year at pro academies, players are let go to make room for others who will take their place. Clubs are constantly on the lookout for players who may - for a variety of reasons - have fallen through the cracks up to that point.

The recent experience of local player Aethan Yohanes is a good example of this. According to his dad's twitter feed, hs family moved to the Netherlands a year or two ago and he initially signed on with an amateur club. After a while his talent was recognized - I think he got selected to a regional team or something, kind of sounded like ODP - and now he's at 1st division AZ Alkmar, and was recently called up to the US U15 NT camp. I don't think he was a late developer, but the point is that professional clubs do keep scouting and looking for new players even from amateur clubs well into their teenage years.

By comparison, how many MLS scouts do you think were watching the last round of ODP regional events, looking for those diamonds in the rough?

Aethan Yohanes was getting zero attention from USSF/youth national team, when he played locally for JOGA. He was not scouted. He was not known. He would not have been considered to be good enough. But for the move to the Netherlands, and getting spotted by AZ, he would still be one of the many kids who would have fallen through the cracks without ever getting a look.

That is complete BS. Typical Joga propaganda.

Facts: He is an 04, who only played for FPYC under the Joga coach for one year, 2014-15, when Joga was just doing all-star tournament teams with kids from various different clubs.

It's true he was not scouted by US Soccer back then. Probably because he was 11.

When Joga left FPYC and went out it's own in 2015-16, his dad was smart enough not to follow. He went to LMVSC for a year instead, under coach Pepe, who manages to be really good at developing players without constant BS self-promotion on twitter. Meanwhile, the Joga teams got relegated from 1st to 2nd division EDP, and folded the next year when their players all left to join better clubs. Further proof of the benefits of a pro/rel system.

Anyway, by 2016-17 Aethan was with DC United (but wait, our system doesn't find kids like this!). As an 04 he played up a year, with the 03s. He was definitely known.

So far, no less than 4 players on DCUs 04 team have been called into USYNT camps. But sure. keep pushing the narrative that if Aethan had stayed on that team he would have "fallen through the cracks without even getting a look." Don't let the facts get in your way.

Anonymous wrote:At what age would you think its acceptable to star specializing in the goalie position? What age do other countries do it ?

When your player decides that is what he wants to be. It’s almost a bigger commitment, more responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:It happens, yes.

Just not to the extent that we think.

And the countries we admire most, Germany and Iceland, are still casting a very wide net up to age 12 and even into the teens. It's not "pro academy at U9 or bust."

See another piece from These Football Times, which talks about Icelandic players having opportunities to walk into their local clubs, get good coaching and even have the opportunity to go on to big-time pro soccer.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/01/15/the-icelandic-roadmap-to-success/

Here's a summary on Germany and how the federation makes an effort to find kids in the 10-14 years who aren't at the Bayern Munichs and Dortmunds: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/05/germany-football-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014

Starting the scouting process at a young age and casting a wide net for as long as possible are not mutually exclusive. It is not "pro academy at U9 or bust" anywhere that is serious about finding and developing the best footballers. Everyone recognizes that development is uneven, kids who were nothing special at 8 may blossom by age 15, and the opposite happens as well. For that reason, the scouting process is never ending. Every year at pro academies, players are let go to make room for others who will take their place. Clubs are constantly on the lookout for players who may - for a variety of reasons - have fallen through the cracks up to that point.

The recent experience of local player Aethan Yohanes is a good example of this. According to his dad's twitter feed, hs family moved to the Netherlands a year or two ago and he initially signed on with an amateur club. After a while his talent was recognized - I think he got selected to a regional team or something, kind of sounded like ODP - and now he's at 1st division AZ Alkmar, and was recently called up to the US U15 NT camp. I don't think he was a late developer, but the point is that professional clubs do keep scouting and looking for new players even from amateur clubs well into their teenage years.

By comparison, how many MLS scouts do you think were watching the last round of ODP regional events, looking for those diamonds in the rough?

Aethan Yohanes was getting zero attention from USSF/youth national team, when he played locally for JOGA. He was not scouted. He was not known. He would not have been considered to be good enough. But for the move to the Netherlands, and getting spotted by AZ, he would still be one of the many kids who would have fallen through the cracks without ever getting a look.

Anonymous wrote:At what age would you think its acceptable to star specializing in the goalie position? What age do other countries do it ?

I don't know if there is a specific cut off date to start specializing as goalkeeper. Buffon played midfield until he was 12, Ter Stegen played as striker until he was 10. Both are world class goalkeepers. I think it is much more difficult to find a good goalkeeper at youth level than a field player so the coaches frequently have kids specialize in this position at early ages, if they find a kid that does well or even OK in the goal. A good goalkeeper can make an average team very competitive and an average goalkeeper will make a good team slightly above average.

At what age would you think its acceptable to star specializing in the goalie position? What age do other countries do it ?

Anonymous wrote:Only a player can make the ultimate decision to stop being a hog. Then again, there’s certain players that have a skill set which lends itself to being allowed to put the team on their backs. We need more creativity, not less. The ability to beat someone 1v1 is invaluable.

There’s a player on our team that her parents give her $10 each time she scores a goal. Hence, she’s a complete ball hog and wouldn’t pass even when her teammates are wide open to score. So some ball hoggers are created and not born.

Only a player can make the ultimate decision to stop being a hog. Then again, there’s certain players that have a skill set which lends itself to being allowed to put the team on their backs. We need more creativity, not less. The ability to beat someone 1v1 is invaluable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a US player makes a European academy, it does not mean he would make it as a professional in Europe.[i] The competition is very stiff and only a very small percentage of all academy players would make it to the first team. However, spending time at European academy means the player would get superior training and competition than at any MLS academy so it maximizes his opportunities to succeed.

Isn't that true for any player that makes a European Academy?

Yes. Very, very few players that enter La Masia will ever make it to Barca’s first team.

Americans think it’s the passport limitation. Uh no, even with the passport chances are minimal.

We had a former Real Madrid and former La Masia Academy products (didn’t pan out — got a good education via the academy, went on to university and now coach) that told my children that it is ridicuosly hard/near imposssiblse for a Spanish kid to ever see a first team in Spain. There are that many good players. He told my oldest he would have no problem at his current level making a pro team in the US, but it’s just so so hard in a place like Spain. But, he said never compare yourself to any other player because you only set limits on yourself that way.

Americans really have a skewed perspective. They think if you get in invite to join an academy that you are a shoe-in. Do you know how many failed, former academy players are walking around Europe? It’s a very, very tiny number (like winning the lottey( that make it.).

Anonymous wrote:

By comparison, how many MLS scouts do you think were watching the last round of ODP regional events, looking for those diamonds in the rough?

Definitely zero from DC United. They just announced their pyramid to the pros that pretty much tells us they are only scouting from the other DA clubs

Yes, regardless of nationality or social background. The US players are different because most of them don't have EU passports so they cannot be signed until 18 so it is much harder to get in because of reasons that have nothing to do with their soccer ability.